Anti Ayton Stuff Flowing Now

[ColdPickleNachos]

I feel like not enough has been made out of this...

"A video of Ayton’s maximum vertical leap test shows him soaring in from the 3-point line and leaving just two panels untouched at the top of the pole; in all, it was good for a 43.5-inch jump."

https://theathletic.com/239358/2018...formation-of-a-monster-in-the-arizona-desert/

Can that possibly be accurate?

Edit: Here's the video.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

As a reference point, here's Pat Connaughton's 44 inch max vert.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/05/pat-connaughton-44-inch-vertical-leap-nba-draft-combine

 

[Russ Smith]

"Questionable motor" is lazy analysis. That was the knock on him coming out of high school. What was discovered was that he was bored because he was so dominant. When he's challenged, the dude responds. He's outplayed Bamba and Bagley when they went against each other in the AAU circuit.

His motor is fine. If anything, I want to see him develop leadership skills as he grows and matures.

I saw Bamba outplay Ayton head to head on ESPN on live tv in an AAU event. in fact I googled it to get the info and it was April 2016 at the EYBL in Brooklyn. Bamba had 13 and 12 boards 2 steals 2 blocks, Ayton had 7 points 9 boards but to be fair Ayton hurt his leg in the game and was limping the last few minutes but in that game, he got outplayed by Bamba. I saw Bamba block his shot 4-5 times in another matchup but Ayton outplayed him that day. in the Peach Jam in 2016 Ayton played really well against guys like Carter, Mitchell Robinson, and Bagley but Bagley actually held his own, it was after that game that the dad started to seriously think about having Bagley move up a year and graduate early. He realized Bagley was good enough and if they had to go to college a year they might as well move it up a year.

I do agree though lots of kids that age get bored in HS, Ayton played much harder at Arizona than he did in HS or AAU.

Remember both Ayton and Bagley were at Hillcrest for a bit together, I remember seeing video of their first game together which was an exhibition against a junior college team that had been the best JUCO in the country the year before. Both kids had 30 points and over 10 boards but Bagley that day was clearly the best player on the court, he kept drawing defenders and then feeding Ayton for dunks. It was also interesting to see how skinny Ayton was compared to now.

I think Ayton is and should be the 1st pick, better shooter and longer, also better NBA body. I think the nitpicking of Bagley by scouts has gotten to the point where he's now underrated. Bamba's big issue is offense, where Ayton has a huge edge is both shooting and passing, Ayton had like 4 times as many assists as Bamba this year. Basically all year long teams doubled Bamba not because they were afraid he'd score but because they knew they could turn him over, that didn't happen with AYton when you doubled him he usually made a nice pass.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That is an impressive vertical

 

[slinslin]

I feel like not enough has been made out of this...

"A video of Ayton’s maximum vertical leap test shows him soaring in from the 3-point line and leaving just two panels untouched at the top of the pole; in all, it was good for a 43.5-inch jump."

https://theathletic.com/239358/2018...formation-of-a-monster-in-the-arizona-desert/

Can that possibly be accurate?

Edit: Here's the video.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

As a reference point, here's Pat Connaughton's 44 inch max vert.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/05/pat-connaughton-44-inch-vertical-leap-nba-draft-combine

Also worth nothing that In the video the pole stands on top of a little box to add some extra inches.

 

[Russ Smith]

That is an impressive vertical

If you saw their 2 games against UCLA, Ayton had some rebounds that were stunning. There's a famous picture of Lew Alcindor at UCLA so high up it looks like from the angle it can't be real, Ayton had some rebounds in the UCLA game that were like that, 18 inches to 2 feet above Welsh of UCLA who's a 7 footer. That's why it stunned me in that same game that Welsh beat Ayton on a jumpball in the OT. Arizona won that one and Ayton was the key guy, 32 and 14, but it's why I keep bringing up timing as why he doesn't block more shots. He can jump out of the gym but I his timing is off quite a bit at times.

He positively dominated UCLA that game. Welsh had 17 and 17 against Ristic but they couldn't do a thing about Ayton the box says he was 13-16 in that game, seemed like 16-16.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Definitely seen him do it in a game and then the next game look flat footed.

I have never been so simultaneously certain and terrified of a player

 

[AzStevenCal]

Definitely seen him do it in a game and then the next game look flat footed.

I have never been so simultaneously certain and terrified of a player

Do you remember what game you're thinking of? The only bad games I can think of were against Stanford, Colorado and UConn but he was in foul trouble in all of them.

 

[GatorAZ]

If you saw their 2 games against UCLA, Ayton had some rebounds that were stunning. There's a famous picture of Lew Alcindor at UCLA so high up it looks like from the angle it can't be real, Ayton had some rebounds in the UCLA game that were like that, 18 inches to 2 feet above Welsh of UCLA who's a 7 footer. That's why it stunned me in that same game that Welsh beat Ayton on a jumpball in the OT. Arizona won that one and Ayton was the key guy, 32 and 14, but it's why I keep bringing up timing as why he doesn't block more shots. He can jump out of the gym but I his timing is off quite a bit at times.

He positively dominated UCLA that game. Welsh had 17 and 17 against Ristic but they couldn't do a thing about Ayton the box says he was 13-16 in that game, seemed like 16-16.

I thought the first game vs UCLA was his worst game but everyone was in a funk that night. They turned around and beat USC then went on a run. Ayton scares the hell out of me because there’s so many bigs today that put up numbers and don’t impact the overall game. However you put together two young offensive studs for a decade and they will at least be exciting. After the last 7-8 years that’s all we can ask for.

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought the first game vs UCLA was his worst game but everyone was in a funk that night. They turned around and beat USC then went on a run. Ayton scares the hell out of me because there’s so many bigs today that put up numbers and don’t impact the overall game. However you put together two young offensive studs for a decade and they will at least be exciting. After the last 7-8 years that’s all we can ask for.

the first game he got good shots he just missed them, the 2nd game he made them, over and over.

I think his defense will be a question mark but he's so good on offense and such a good rebounder and the defense will get better. I thing Bagley is a better offensive rebounder than Ayton, when you consider he played with Carter and still pulled 4 ORB a game that's impressive, but Ayton is a better defensive rebounder and a better shooter than Bagley.

 

[Superbone]

Agree. It’s a possibly valid criticism but more of a concern when it’s voiced by teams after their own interviews and workouts, rather than by writers. If the Suns take Ayton we’ll have to trust that they saw the right motivation. It would be the worst to pass on Ayton because of an intangible and then watch him destroy because he actually does play hard when challenged.

The good thing about the Suns as a landing spot is that Ayton isn’t the first star drafted in the rebuild - Booker was. And Booker is already tired of missing the playoffs.

That's an excellent point. I don't think Booker will allow Ayton to be lazy. Booker is going to be a demanding teammate.

 

[slinslin]

That's an excellent point. I don't think Booker will allow Ayton to be lazy. Booker is going to be a demanding teammate.

Reed and Knight are absolute workhorses as well and Jackson is a gymrat too.

I think Knight will have a career year. I think he is at peace with who he is now and before the injury was too concerned about reaching his potential, proving his draft stock etc and forcing too much.

I am actually excited for Knight, he is working hard every day I wish him well. He didn‘t deserve all the abuse he received.

I think Knight can be the type of veteran leader the Suns need.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Do you remember what game you're thinking of? The only bad games I can think of were against Stanford, Colorado and UConn but he was in foul trouble in all of them.

He was really earthbound against Colorado. Not sure why. He just wasn't getting up and challenging guys

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Nothing I have heard about Ayton is "Lazy". The guy carried U of A's top practice jersey for the whole year.

He isn't lazy, it just seems he has a lot to learn about when to jump, what sort of angles to take, and how to assert himself more in the game.

Leadership and game awareness can come with age and teaching though.

Literally he is going to set his own ceiling. Either through his desire to learn or his ability to stay healthy.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...rs-in-the-nba-draft-according-to-my-computer/

We usually don’t release our CARMELO NBA projections until after the NBA draft. But this year, in an effort to procrastinate from other modelling-related tasks,Sorry, Micah.

I finished them a little early. We’ll publish the complete set of CARMELO projections later this month, but with the draft scheduled for Thursday night, I wanted to share the system’s take on the best NCAA prospects.

Our methodology for CARMELO is pretty much the same as last year, with only minor tweaks. It works by identifying statistically comparable players — for instance, John Wall is currently similar to Detroit Pistons Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas and to Deron Williams. For NBA veterans, we use a database of player statistics since the ABA-NBA merger in 1976, and for rookies, we use a database of NCAA statistics since 2002, adjusted for pace and opponent strength, as provided to us by ESPN Stats & Information Group. The rookie projections also account for — indeed, heavily emphasize — where in the draft each player was selected. Because the 2018 draft hasn’t taken place yet, we can’t use that variable to evaluate this year’s prospects, so for now I’ve used scouting rankings for both current and historical players.We’ll switch back to draft position once we publish the full set of CARMELOs.

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[sunsfan88]

^hope he’s more Davis than the other two.

 

[sunsfan88]

Nothing I have heard about Ayton is "Lazy".

I used to think the same thing but saw this on another board and there apparently there are some question marks about it.

Ayton's biggest question is his consistency with on-court work ethic.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...mp-is-between-garnett-and-a-young-tim-duncan/

But he can fall in love with his still-developing outside shot, and there are questions about his work ethic and defensive tenacity.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/arizona-deandre-ayton-allonzo-trier-200004727.html

Those who have worked with him cite his work ethic as being average. - Jonathan Givony

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...spects-comps-projections-strengths-weaknesses

There have also been questions dating back to his time in high school concerning his work ethic.

https://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/nba-draft-preview-arizonas-deandre-ayton-060118

Despite all the physical qualifications in the world, Ayton routinely got exposed on the defensive end at Arizona thanks to seriously lacking defensive instincts and what’s been described as an average work ethic.

https://www.obsev.com/sports/deandre-ayton-or-luka-doncic-suns.html

There are some concerns about his work ethic, and his Wildcats were upset as a 4-seed in the first round of the NCAA tournament, but the talent is undeniable.

http://thedrive.bangordailynews.com/2018/06/18/sports/2162/

 

[slinslin]

^hope he’s more Davis than the other two.

The comparisons are not stylistically

Just like Booker havin JR Smith in his comparisons.

Not many players are statistically similiar to
Ayton as 19yo freshman between 6‘11 - 7‘1

 

[GatorAZ]

I used to think the same thing but saw this on another board and there apparently there are some question marks about it.

The dependence on his jumpshot is only concerning if he’s not making it consistently. If you tell me he’d be a dominant rebounding LaMarcus Aldridge we’d all take it.

 

[devilalum]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...rs-in-the-nba-draft-according-to-my-computer/

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And why would the Suns even workout JJJ when he's the next Marquese Chriss?
And why trade up for Trae Young when we already have BK?

 

[Russ Smith]

The dependence on his jumpshot is only concerning if he’s not making it consistently. If you tell me he’d be a dominant rebounding LaMarcus Aldridge we’d all take it.

Yep and nobody seems to block that jumpshot, when he had bad games he was just missing shots, not having someone make him miss.

 

[elindholm]

I feel like not enough has been made out of this...

"A video of Ayton’s maximum vertical leap test shows him soaring in from the 3-point line and leaving just two panels untouched at the top of the pole; in all, it was good for a 43.5-inch jump."

Can that possibly be accurate?

I doubt it. It's obvious that he gets very high, but if you look at how much his waistline moves up, it doesn't look like more than three feet. They must have miscalculated his standing reach.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I doubt it. It's obvious that he gets very high, but if you look at how much his waistline moves up, it doesn't look like more than three feet. They must have miscalculated his standing reach.

I think they just simply threw a higher number on the video than what actually happened.

The simplest way is to just look at how high his head gets. At 7'1" tall his head would be nearly 8" above the rim if he actually jumped 43.5 inches off the ground.

 

[taz02]

When you stretch your arm out completely your head tilts back a bit.

I'd guess the average mans waist is 38"-39" from the ground about even with Aytons feet. The guy holding the pole is also standing on a platform.

 

[Hoop Head]

His vertical leap is insanely good for a player his size. There is no need to get caught up and debate over a few inches. His whole head seems to go above the rim. What more does he need to be able to do?

 

[Mainstreet]

It's going to be hard for me to get used to Max Kellerman opposite Stephen A. Smith.

I've never been a fan of Smith but Kellerman came down hard on Ayton. Smith and Jay Bilas were defenders.

I guess it's their job to take opposing views but I found Kellerman abrasive.