Antrel Rolle - Decision time in T-Minus 12 days

[Buckybird]

The part that sounds the same to me is the Just pay or tag him and work it out latter. I would hope they learned from last time. I hope for the sooner rather than latter head in the ground and see what happens approach.

The thing I think your missing OLY is if Rolle is on the roster he will make $12 mil this year if he isn't extended or cut. That can't happen, he isn't worth that kind of money per year. It's the same thing that happened with Fitz, will happen with Leinart next year & Levi the following season.

 

[joeshmo]

The Cardinals will offer Rolle a 4 year $22M contract with $6M in guaranteed money.

But, I think Rolle is smart. I think he signs the deal.

If Rolle was smart he would not sign that deal. I wouldn't even hold it against him. That is horribly underpaying in the guaranteed money area. He and is agent would and rightfully so scoff at any deal that didn't at minimum start at 10 mill in guaranteed.

 

[joeshmo]

The thing I think your missing OLY is if Rolle is on the roster he will make $12 mil this year if he isn't extended or cut. That can't happen, he isn't worth that kind of money per year. It's the same thing that happened with Fitz, will happen with Leinart next year & Levi the following season.

Yep. That will happen with any team that has a top 10 pick pan out. Its just the nature of the contracts you have to give to top 10 picks. It is also incorrect to pan the FO for not getting it done sooner, when it is without a doubt the agent dragging it down to the very last minute. The agent would be doing their client a disservice if they didn't play the clock against the team. Its negotiating 101.

 

[Mitch]

If Rolle was smart he would not sign that deal. I wouldn't even hold it against him. That is horribly underpaying in the guaranteed money area. He and is agent would and rightfully so scoff at any deal that didn't at minimum start at 10 mill in guaranteed.

Do you realy think he would get more $$$ somewhere else? Not sure if teams are convinced Rolle is a FS, and if there is some doubt, teams certainly aren't going to put up a great deal of guaranteed money, unless they are convinced he'd be their SS for the next 4 years.

$5.5M per year with $6M up front is generous for Rolle. But, like you said, he and his agent may not see it that way. It's possible Rolle just wants to find himself back in Florida and may scoff at any offer he gets from the Cardinals.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Do you realy think he would get more $$$ somewhere else? Not sure if teams are convinced Rolle is a FS, and if there is some doubt, teams certainly aren't going to put up a great deal of guaranteed money, unless they are convinced he'd be their SS for the next 4 years.

$5.5M per year with $6M up front is generous for Rolle. But, like you said, he and his agent may not see it that way. It's possible Rolle just wants to find himself back in Florida and may scoff at any offer he gets from the Cardinals.

I think if the Cards make a fair offer,he'll re-sign. The question is whether Graves will expect him to take a discount to stay. I don't why he would. I think a contract along the line of what AW got would get it done.

 

[joeshmo]

Do you realy think he would get more $$$ somewhere else?

Without a shadow of a doubt he would. First, only a few fans thinks he is a SS not a FS, we dont know what the league thinks. Second when below average players are getting more then 6 mill in gauranteed money then Rolle can easily get 10 mill in gauranteed money. This isnt 2002 salaries we are talking about anymore, we are talking about 09 and 10 where just this past week a Kicker who only makes 80% of his field goals gets 9 mill in gauranteed money. Where a no name gaurd in Tennessee gets 10.5 mill gauranteed.

 

[Mitch]

Without a shadow of a doubt he would. First, only a few fans thinks he is a SS not a FS, we dont know what the league thinks. Second when below average players are getting more then 6 mill in gauranteed money then Rolle can easily get 10 mill in gauranteed money. This isnt 2002 salaries we are talking about anymore, we are talking about 09 and 10 where just this past week a Kicker who only makes 80% of his field goals gets 9 mill in gauranteed money. Where a no name gaurd in Tennessee gets 10.5 mill gauranteed.

OK, then. If that's the case, he won't be re-signing with the Cardinals. I can't see tham offering him much more than what I projected. And i would be surprised if he got much more than that elsewhere. But, I will give you all the credit if he does.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

I think if the Cards make a fair offer,he'll re-sign. The question is whether Graves will expect him to take a discount to stay. I don't why he would. I think a contract along the line of what AW got would get it done.

Which some could argue will be to much money. AW is an all pro player where Rolle went to his first PB because everyone else backed out. I do think he grows into a very good FS.

 

[Chopper0080]

I could see 5 year with 15 mill guaranteed with the rest of the numbers working themselves out (what about $32.5 million totaled). Should break down to about 6.5 million per year, with just less than 40% guaranteed. Lets face it, he has position versatility, he stays healthy, he is still young, and he is a playmaker. Oh, and we don't have a viable option on the roster to replace him.

Go easy on me if this figure is stupid.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't even want to imagine what kind of team we'd have this fall without Warner, Berry, Okeafor, Boldin, Leinart, Rolle, and Dansby.

 

[Big Deal]

Here's my prediction:

The Cardinals will offer Rolle a 4 year $22M contract with $6M in guaranteed money.

He will have to weigh whether his desire to return to Florida (or have to bargain elsewhere) at what would likely be less money is worth it or not.

But, I think Rolle is smart. I think he signs the deal.

Mitch, that is absurd to think that anyone would sign an additional 4 years for only 2M more gauranteed! At a minimum his gauranteed money will have to be in the 12M range to entice him to extend. He has all the power in this situation, all you have to do is ask if one team is willing to do better than 4years 22M with 6M gauranteed and the answer is of course, see Calvin Pace, see Antonio Smith, see uncapped year...

The way I see it, the Cardinals rolled the dice, pardon the pun and came up snake eyes. They should have restructured him last year. They gambled on the fact that if he wasn't cutting mustard, he would be cut and replaced by Rashad Johnson just like they did with A. Smith last year. Problem is, Rolle was a PB alternate and Johnson can't dress on gamedays. Now they have to pay the price and do so from a position of weakness.

They are doing the same thing with Leinart this year. If they don't extend him, then next year he is owed a lot and we don't have choices. If he proves not to be the QBOF then the front office looks gold. If we make the playoffs and he has a better than average year, then we are stuck paying the big salary AND probably having to franchise tag him the following year.

 

[Big Deal]

OK, then. If that's the case, he won't be re-signing with the Cardinals. I can't see tham offering him much more than what I projected. And i would be surprised if he got much more than that elsewhere. But, I will give you all the credit if he does.

Mitch how can you possibly think that???? Do you really think that Antonio Smith was worth 35M? Be realistic, Rolle would be snatched up in a heartbeat to a large contract. Look, just view it like this, he is already gauranteed 12M, so to start negotiations, you can't go below that number, and if you did, I would fire you before you hung up the phone. Otherwise, you get cut and hit the open market in a VERY weak FA class without the usual cap restrictions.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, that is absurd to think that anyone would sign an additional 4 years for only 2M more gauranteed! At a minimum his gauranteed money will have to be in the 12M range to entice him to extend. He has all the power in this situation, all you have to do is ask if one team is willing to do better than 4years 22M with 6M gauranteed and the answer is of course, see Calvin Pace, see Antonio Smith, see uncapped year...

The way I see it, the Cardinals rolled the dice, pardon the pun and came up snake eyes. They should have restructured him last year. They gambled on the fact that if he wasn't cutting mustard, he would be cut and replaced by Rashad Johnson just like they did with A. Smith last year. Problem is, Rolle was a PB alternate and Johnson can't dress on gamedays. Now they have to pay the price and do so from a position of weakness.

They are doing the same thing with Leinart this year. If they don't extend him, then next year he is owed a lot and we don't have choices. If he proves not to be the QBOF then the front office looks gold. If we make the playoffs and he has a better than average year, then we are stuck paying the big salary AND probably having to franchise tag him the following year.

I think that is a very correct and fair assessement. Thank you, BD.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch how can you possibly think that???? Do you really think that Antonio Smith was worth 35M? Be realistic, Rolle would be snatched up in a heartbeat to a large contract. Look, just view it like this, he is already gauranteed 12M, so to start negotiations, you can't go below that number, and if you did, I would fire you before you hung up the phone. Otherwise, you get cut and hit the open market in a VERY weak FA class without the usual cap restrictions.

This is where we differ. I don't think the Cardinals value Rolle at the money you are talking about. It's as simple as that. I also don't believe Rolle will garner a "large contract" elsewhere. He's a coverted corner to safety who lacks the range and speed to play the FS position the way most teams want. This is why I think, teams will want to try him at SS, but no one at this point knows if he can be physcial enough to be a major factor there.

Same thing with Dansby...the Cardinals are infamous for playing players out of position...I would be shocked if the team that signs him projects him to play inside. He's not a physical player, he's finesse.

 

[Big Deal]

This is where we differ. I don't think the Cardinals value Rolle at the money you are talking about. It's as simple as that. I also don't believe Rolle will garner a "large contract" elsewhere. He's a coverted corner to safety who lacks the range and speed to play the FS position the way most teams want. This is why I think, teams will want to try him at SS, but no one at this point knows if he can be physcial enough to be a major factor there.

Same thing with Dansby...the Cardinals are infamous for playing players out of position...I would be shocked if the team that signs him projects him to play inside. He's not a physical player, he's finesse.

Agree on both points of how cards value him and Dansby ILB. Disagree on how much a team will pay him. The problem is, we don't have options, Rolle is a player who is getting better and coming into his prime. You don't want to let him hit the open market or he is gone. He is a high character guy who is a playmaker at a position that teams would love to have a playmaker. He is versitle, can move around to SS, Nickle CB, as well as FS. I think you underestimate his value, and we will lose him for nothing if you don't make a move.

Here is how I see it playing out. The Cards try to retructure, they don't want to bite on the gauranteed money, but end up keeping him out of necessity. Then in essence, we paid him 12M gauranteed for one year. This is exactly the Dansby scenario all over. If we would have paid him the same contract that Pace got, we would be set right now, instead we pay him over 20M gauranteed for two years and are going to lose him to FA. That is the dumbest thing that I have ever seen this team do and I have been a fan for a long time. If they do the same thing with Rolle, then I can't wait to see Graves shown the door.

 

[Mitch]

Agree on both points of how cards value him and Dansby ILB. Disagree on how much a team will pay him. The problem is, we don't have options, Rolle is a player who is getting better and coming into his prime. You don't want to let him hit the open market or he is gone. He is a high character guy who is a playmaker at a position that teams would love to have a playmaker. He is versitle, can move around to SS, Nickle CB, as well as FS. I think you underestimate his value, and we will lose him for nothing if you don't make a move.

Here is how I see it playing out. The Cards try to retructure, they don't want to bite on the gauranteed money, but end up keeping him out of necessity. Then in essence, we paid him 12M gauranteed for one year. This is exactly the Dansby scenario all over. If we would have paid him the same contract that Pace got, we would be set right now, instead we pay him over 20M gauranteed for two years and are going to lose him to FA. That is the dumbest thing that I have ever seen this team do and I have been a fan for a long time. If they do the same thing with Rolle, then I can't wait to see Graves shown the door.

I agree with your thinking, BD, and I think you are right the Cardinals will likely overpay for Rolle...but the question remains is he the athlete at FS you want?

My answer to that is no...and I appreciate the improvements he made, but he just cannot impact the game at FS the way you need a FS to, especially for the money you are talking about.

The niche that fits Rolle best is nickel back. He thrives in that role. But, teams don't pay nickel backs $12M in guarantees.

The Cardinals as you said rolled the dice on this contract and now they will either have to overpay or bite the bullet.

 

[kerouac9]

BD, keep in mind that this is the same guy who saw amazing things from Rashad Johnson when the professionals had him riding pine for a guy who was signed two days earlier.

 

[Mitch]

BD, keep in mind that this is the same guy who saw amazing things from Rashad Johnson when the professionals had him riding pine for a guy who was signed two days earlier.

Nice cheap shot...shows your class. It's curious that you are so desperate to belittle me that you have to resort to hyperbole. I never used the word "amazing" in describing Rashad Johnson.

And I stand by what i saw on tape...Johnson looked fundamentally sound throughout the Green Bay game, was taking away his deep third covering at the proper angles, and was coming up and making open field tackles just as well as Rolle (and Rolle really improved in the regard this year).

The only mistake he made...if you could call it that...is he let one deep middle pass go over his head because he came up to cover TE Jermichael Finley who was wide open up the seam. The FS cannot cover both and he has to be decisive, which Johnson was in that case. I had no problems with his reaction on the play...the LB blew the assigment and Finley was left uncovered.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I really hope Johnson can step up. That would be a huge boon to the secondary. Rolle could still be the main FS but in nickel packages, Johnson could play FS and Rolle move to underneath nickel back role. If the Cards keep McFadden and Toler keeps developing we'd see never see a nickel package with Ralph Brown or Michael Adams again. Adams could be a dime back and keep his special teams role. However, Johnson need a major leap basing on what he looked like last year.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I really hope Johnson can step up. That would be a huge boon to the secondary. Rolle could still be the main FS but in nickel packages, Johnson could play FS and Rolle move to underneath nickel back role. If the Cards keep McFadden and Toler keeps developing we'd see never see a nickel package with Ralph Brown or Michael Adams again. Adams could be a dime back and keep his special teams role. However, Johnson need a major leap basing on what he looked like last year.

I'd add... bring back Ware as our backup SS.

 

[TigToad]

As a middle school teacher, I'm just pleased someone understands what the word hyperbole means. Gives me hope.

I'm enjoying this thread.

I think Rolle is a nice fit for Arizona, but not an ideal free safety. I think a bigger issue is, it is obvious we are going to be losing a lot of talent from our starting roster. While some of our young players will be ready to step up, we cannot replace them all. Rolle generates turn overs in our defense and safety is not a deep area on our team. He'll be hard to replace this off season. At best, he'll be hard to replace without the risk of hoping younger players make that move to the next level.

Nice cheap shot...shows your class. It's curious that you are so desperate to belittle me that you have to resort to hyperbole. I never used the word "amazing" in describing Rashad Johnson.

And I stand by what i saw on tape...Johnson looked fundamentally sound throughout the Green Bay game, was taking away his deep third covering at the proper angles, and was coming up and making open field tackles just as well as Rolle (and Rolle really improved in the regard this year).

The only mistake he made...if you could call it that...is he let one deep middle pass go over his head because he came up to cover TE Jermichael Finley who was wide open up the seam. The FS cannot cover both and he has to be decisive, which Johnson was in that case. I had no problems with his reaction on the play...the LB blew the assigment and Finley was left uncovered.

 

[Dr. Jones]

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2010/02/21/two-weeks-of-decisions-set-offseasons-course/

From the blog........

Antrel Rolle and the team have talked contract, but this close to Rolle’s magic date — he’s due that giant $4 million roster bonus next week — I expect him to be released into the open market. What that means is anyone’s guess. The Cardinals believe Rolle would like to come back, but again, it’s all relative when it comes to dollars. Could the Dolphins — and Miami is home for Rolle — come calling for big bucks given their issues with current free safety Gibril Wilson? Might the Giants, who had all kinds of secondary issues, choose to siphon away the guy who sealed their fate this past season? Someone else?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Antrel could get rolled out of Arizona

Posted by Mike Florio on February 21, 2010 9:33 PM ET

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As he enters the final year of his rookie deal, Cardinals safety Antrel Rolle is due to earn a base salary of $8.11 million.

Then there's a $4 million roster bonus due next week.

Based on 2009 wages, the Cardinals already employ the highest-paid safety in the NFL -- Adrian Wilson, who made $7.039 million last season.

So Rolle, who has said he's not taking a pay cut and who has coughed up $2.2 million in back taxes to the IRS, could be hitting the open market in the uncapped year. Darren Urban of the team's official web site predicts that Rolle will be released.

Rolle, who said last month that he'd like to play for the Dolphins, was the eighth overall pick in the 2005 draft, three selections before DeMarcus Ware.

Meanwhile, Rolle is the second top-ten pick of the Cardinals during the three-year Denny Green era to unlock high-end escalators that eventually forced the team into a corner. Two years ago, 2004 first-rounder Larry Fitzgerald parlayed a huge cap number into a four-year, $40 million deal. This time around, a good-but-not-great career from Rolle has put him in line for $12 million, an amount that's unheard of for a safety.

So Rolle undoubtedly won't be back in Arizona absent a major pay cut, and he'll ultimately make a lot less than $12.11 million this year, and likely in any future year of his career.

 

[Stout]

If this FO can't manage to keep a hold of Rolle because they can't get a deal in place to extend him, then we're back in the dark ages, folks. If that happens and we don't see anything tangible about how it was Rolle's greed that kept the deal from getting done....lordy, will this place explode.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Rolle scores touchdowns on defense. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want him back.