Antrel Rolle - Decision time in T-Minus 12 days

[40yearfan]

No, I am blaming the front office for looking like idiots by trying to broker a deal now when they have no negotiating leverage. They rolled the dice on Rashad Johnson and he didn't develop. Don't try and say that you want Rolle now, because your replacement plan fell on it's face.

Sorry Chopper, but this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We do want Rolle, just not at his asking price and we would have still wanted him even if Johnson had worked out. No one is looking stupid in this situation. This is the way the NFL is structured today.

Personally I hope we can manage to work out a deal with him and keep him on the team. He is an asset and worth the effort to keep him here. We won't know how this works out until he signs somewhere. It's a little premature to consider him gone yet.

 

[earthsci]

Drew really has very little to do with this debacle.

He wants $8 million a year for Rolle. That's more than Bob Sanders or Troy Polamalu. I would say that he has a lot to do with it.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sorry Chopper, but this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We do want Rolle, just not at his asking price and we would have still wanted him even if Johnson had worked out. No one is looking stupid in this situation. This is the way the NFL is structured today.

Personally I hope we can manage to work out a deal with him and keep him on the team. He is an asset and worth the effort to keep him here. We won't know how this works out until he signs somewhere. It's a little premature to consider him gone yet.

And this is clearly where we disagree. I don't see how you can say that you want a guy long term (Rolle) when you draft a player (Rashad Johnson) who plays the same position, in the 3rd round, and in the year before his (Rolle) contract hits an unrealistic cap number (12 million). A deal that was set up with the understanding that the final year would either be renegotiated or Rolle would be cut.

 

[Chopper0080]

He wants $8 million a year for Rolle. That's more than Bob Sanders or Troy Polamalu. I would say that he has a lot to do with it.

He wants 8 million a year to prevent his client from becoming a free agent, not because he necessarily believes that to be his market value. Big difference here.

 

[earthsci]

He wants 8 million a year to prevent his client from becoming a free agent, not because he necessarily believes that to be his market value. Big difference here.

Still has a lot to do with what is going on. He isn't going to get $8 mill a year.

 

[Duckjake]

So we get down to the crux of the matter. You don't believe Graves has done a good job and I do. I'd say there is a lot more evidence to support my position than yours. The results speak for themselves.

No, here is the crux of the matter.

You don't believe that a hard core fan could do as good a job as Graves and I do.

Never said anything about Graves not doing a good job the last few years.

 

[kerouac9]

He wants $8 million a year for Rolle. That's more than Bob Sanders or Troy Polamalu. I would say that he has a lot to do with it.

Source?

 

[earthsci]

Source?

I misread apparently. He is due 8 million in salary this year.

 

[CardLogic]

Drew really has very little to do with this debacle.

Don't kid yourself, he has a lot to do with Rolle not being willing to sign for a reasonable number; if that is the case, as it seems to be.

I am not absolving the Cardinals FO at all, but we have seen Rosenhaus' dog and pony show before...

Also don't think that Rosenhaus isn't more than a little bit perturbed about getting fired by Boldin because of the situation with the Cardinals, and that it doesn't impact his dealings with Arizona.

 

[Chopper0080]

Don't kid yourself, he has a lot to do with Rolle not being willing to sign for a reasonable number; if that is the case, as it seems to be.

I am not absolving the Cardinals FO at all, but we have seen Rosenhaus' dog and pony show before...

Also don't think that Rosenhaus isn't more than a little bit perturbed about getting fired by Boldin because of the situation with the Cardinals, and that it doesn't impact his dealings with Arizona.

I find it hilarious that posters on this board clamor about Dockett and Boldin wanting new deals, and that they should "honor their contracts." Or that it is "not our fault that their agent made a bad deal." However, when Rolle wants to play out his contract and get his 12 million that the Cardinals offered him, "him and his agent are being unreasonable." Oh the hypocrisy.

Now, do I think that they should pay Rolle 12 million? No, that is a bad business decision. But I also don't think that Rolle should feel obliged to renegotiate his. That would also be a bad business decision as he will make more money on the open market.

 

[CardinalChris]

The difference is Rolle is in his last year - after both sides honored the contract. Dockett and Q were making noise after 2 years with 3-4 years each left on their contract. I don't see anything hypocritical about it. If either Q or DD complained during the offseason before their last contract year, everyone on here would agree. But they did it with 3-4 years left.

 

[earthsci]

Dockett was making noise the same year with 4.5 years each left on his contract.

FTFY

 

[earthsci]

Now, do I think that they should pay Rolle 12 million? No, that is a bad business decision. But I also don't think that Rolle should feel obliged to renegotiate his. That would also be a bad business decision as he will make more money on the open market.

I don't disagree with this at all. Hit the open market and keep the Cards apprised of any offers, if he's truthful about wanting to stay here. Chances aren't good that he'll be wearing red next year. I just don't think that trying to negotiate is bad on Graves part or that Graves has done a bad job (lately).

 

[Chopper0080]

The difference is Rolle is in his last year - after both sides honored the contract. Dockett and Q were making noise after 2 years with 3-4 years each left on their contract. I don't see anything hypocritical about it. If either Q or DD complained during the offseason before their last contract year, everyone on here would agree. But they did it with 3-4 years left.

Still the heart of the argument was that they needed to honor their respective contracts. Now, I understand that it is business in the NFL, but it bugs me when people are trying to place the blame for not renegotiating on Rolle and his agent Drew R for wanting to play out his rookie contract or test free agency.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't disagree with this at all. Hit the open market and keep the Cards apprised of any offers, if he's truthful about wanting to stay here. Chances aren't good that he'll be wearing red next year. I just don't think that trying to negotiate is bad on Graves part or that Graves has done a bad job (lately).

My point Earthsci is that if the Cardinals were really intent on keeping Rolle long term, they would have never let it get to this point, because there isn't one reason why Rolle should renegotiate now. I just hate that they are making a dog and pony show attempt of trying to resign him when in all aspects they made their decision months ago. All I want to hear is that Rolle isn't a part of their long term plans, and good luck to him.

 

[Buckybird]

My point Earthsci is that if the Cardinals were really intent on keeping Rolle long term, they would have never let it get to this point, because there isn't one reason why Rolle should renegotiate now. I just hate that they are making a dog and pony show attempt of trying to resign him when in all aspects they made their decision months ago. All I want to hear is that Rolle isn't a part of their long term plans, and good luck to him.

 

[CardinalChris]

Still the heart of the argument was that they needed to honor their respective contracts. Now, I understand that it is business in the NFL, but it bugs me when people are trying to place the blame for not renegotiating on Rolle and his agent Drew R for wanting to play out his rookie contract or test free agency.

I think if both players made noise going into the last year of their contract, or even two years before, the majority of those upset at both players would have been fine with it IMHO. In fact this very year on Rolle's contract is to entice both parties to this point

 

[Big Deal]

You guys are so out there I don't know where to start. As the days go on and it is becoming more of a reality that Rolle will be cut outright for no compensation the excuses are comming in faster and faster.

I DON'T CARE what Rolle is worth or what he can get on the open market. What I do know is that some team will be offering more than what we are to get him if we do let him hit the open market. That, plus the fact that we have no replacement sets his value. If this team DECIDES to let all theses starters walk based on money when there is no cap hell, no salary cap, no penalty for resigning your own, but major limitations on what you can bring back in, and they choose to release pro-bowl caliber players for zero in return, tne they are obviously not in it for the win/loss record.

I hate to say it, but if they let Rolle and Dansby go and get nothing in return, then it would be a pure money play by the team and I will not be renewing my season tickets. Anyone who wants to make excuses for this type of B.S. in my opinion is a sheep and you are the reason we have been in the cellar for 20 of the last 22 years.

I do not want to watch what happened 10 years ago, happen again and stand by and make up excuses for the pathetic front office. If they can't extend Rolle and/or Dansby with no cap, then they just don't care enough to win. We will be in no uncertain terms giving the division away over a couple million dollars which the idiots would make up with a home playoff game anyway.

 

[CardLogic]

I find it hilarious that posters on this board clamor about Dockett and Boldin wanting new deals, and that they should "honor their contracts." Or that it is "not our fault that their agent made a bad deal." However, when Rolle wants to play out his contract and get his 12 million that the Cardinals offered him, "him and his agent are being unreasonable." Oh the hypocrisy.

Now, do I think that they should pay Rolle 12 million? No, that is a bad business decision. But I also don't think that Rolle should feel obliged to renegotiate his. That would also be a bad business decision as he will make more money on the open market.

The posters on this board (at least most of us) are fans of the Cardinals, not individual players. It's not hypocrisy to want the Cardinals to benefit in all situations, either the Super Bowl or contract negotiations. Regarding Drew Rosenhaus, I don't like him, nor the manner in which he conducts business.

Regarding individual players contracts, I believe that it is not necessarily always in their best interest to be only seeking the top dollar. Sometimes the situation is as important, and more significant than signing for the maximum amount.

For example, I personally have turned down jobs offering more income, but not as good a situation for me or my family.

That's my perspective, perhaps that is where we differ.

 

[cardpa]

Rolle is due $12 million. We all need to remember that his rookie contract was signed with the idea he was going to be a CB and reasonably hopeful a Pro Bowl CB. Going into the last year of his contract he is only a slightly above average FS who only got to the Pro Bowl because several FS in front of him bowed out.

He is a pro bowler by default, not by voting amoung his peers and NFL fans. I don't think this discussion would be going on if he was a Pro bowl CB and I don't think the Cards would be that upset about paying him the $12 million if he met the above criteria. Rolle has never come close to playing to the level expected of him which is part of why his contract is at $12 mil now. This leads back to paying draft choices so much for potential. Rolle never fullfilled his potential.

There were 7 FS and 3 SS who had more INTs than Rolle's 4. His longest return was 29 yards and no TDs. There were 27 other players with more INTs who had longer returns.

Part of the problem is too many recall the year he returned several INTs for TDs. That was probably his career year.

Bottom line is Rolle is nothing so special that he can't be replaced somehow some way. I would not be surprised if he isn't biting at the bit just as much as Dansby to test the FA waters. All these guys think they are worth more than they really are and we the fans help promote that by saying how valuable they are and how we don't want to see them go. We won't be the same or as good without them.

How many teams lost big name players and still were competetive or made playoffs. Baltimore is a good example. Look how much they lost on defense yet still made the playoffs.

I'd sooner trade Rolle to Seattle for Tatupu and we get a LB we need and save $6 mil in the process.

Trade Rolle for Adalius Thomas and save $7 mil at the same time.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rolle is due $12 million. We all need to remember that his rookie contract was signed with the idea he was going to be a CB and reasonably hopeful a Pro Bowl CB. Going into the last year of his contract he is only a slightly above average FS who only got to the Pro Bowl because several FS in front of him bowed out.

He is a pro bowler by default, not by voting amoung his peers and NFL fans. I don't think this discussion would be going on if he was a Pro bowl CB and I don't think the Cards would be that upset about paying him the $12 million if he met the above criteria. Rolle has never come close to playing to the level expected of him which is part of why his contract is at $12 mil now. This leads back to paying draft choices so much for potential. Rolle never fullfilled his potential.

There were 7 FS and 3 SS who had more INTs than Rolle's 4. His longest return was 29 yards and no TDs. There were 27 other players with more INTs who had longer returns.

Part of the problem is too many recall the year he returned several INTs for TDs. That was probably his career year.

Bottom line is Rolle is nothing so special that he can't be replaced somehow some way. I would not be surprised if he isn't biting at the bit just as much as Dansby to test the FA waters. All these guys think they are worth more than they really are and we the fans help promote that by saying how valuable they are and how we don't want to see them go. We won't be the same or as good without them.

How many teams lost big name players and still were competetive or made playoffs. Baltimore is a good example. Look how much they lost on defense yet still made the playoffs.

I'd sooner trade Rolle to Seattle for Tatupu and we get a LB we need and save $6 mil in the process.

Trade Rolle for Adalius Thomas and save $7 mil at the same time.

+1

12 million for a guy that is average at best ? Let that one walk out the door.

Sign Ryan Clark. He is a better FS anyway.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

I DON'T CARE what Rolle is worth or what he can get on the open market. What I do know is that some team will be offering more than what we are to get him if we do let him hit the open market. That, plus the fact that we have no replacement sets his value.

Do we know what we have offerred? Do we know what other team has offerred. If they have, it is tampering as Rolle is still under contract. Rolle wants to test the FA market but he is not a FA. He is forcing CARDS to release him so he can test the market. Hopeully, CARDS can counter offer once he gets another offer from the team.

If this team DECIDES to let all theses starters walk based on money when there is no cap hell, no salary cap, no penalty for resigning your own, but major limitations on what you can bring back in, and they choose to release pro-bowl caliber players for zero in return, tne they are obviously not in it for the win/loss record.

The primary reason there is no cap is so that the teams can reduce their expenses. I agree with you that FO waits till the last moment and let the players have the advantage.

I hate to say it, but if they let Rolle and Dansby go and get nothing in return, then it would be a pure money play by the team and I will not be renewing my season tickets.

The only way you can get something in return is to trade or tag. Can't tag Dansby as he will promptly sign the contract and cant tag Rolle as he is under contract. Why would anybody trade for Rolle with his salary burden and the fact that CARDS will be forced to release him.

 

[Duckjake]

Rolle is due $12 million. We all need to remember that his rookie contract was signed with the idea he was going to be a CB and reasonably hopeful a Pro Bowl CB. Going into the last year of his contract he is only a slightly above average FS who only got to the Pro Bowl because several FS in front of him bowed out.

He is a pro bowler by default, not by voting amoung his peers and NFL fans. I don't think this discussion would be going on if he was a Pro bowl CB and I don't think the Cards would be that upset about paying him the $12 million if he met the above criteria. Rolle has never come close to playing to the level expected of him which is part of why his contract is at $12 mil now. This leads back to paying draft choices so much for potential. Rolle never fullfilled his potential.

There were 7 FS and 3 SS who had more INTs than Rolle's 4. His longest return was 29 yards and no TDs. There were 27 other players with more INTs who had longer returns.

Part of the problem is too many recall the year he returned several INTs for TDs. That was probably his career year.

Bottom line is Rolle is nothing so special that he can't be replaced somehow some way. I would not be surprised if he isn't biting at the bit just as much as Dansby to test the FA waters. All these guys think they are worth more than they really are and we the fans help promote that by saying how valuable they are and how we don't want to see them go. We won't be the same or as good without them.

How many teams lost big name players and still were competetive or made playoffs. Baltimore is a good example. Look how much they lost on defense yet still made the playoffs.

I'd sooner trade Rolle to Seattle for Tatupu and we get a LB we need and save $6 mil in the process.

Trade Rolle for Adalius Thomas and save $7 mil at the same time.

I'm on the opposite side of this. The reason the Cards have made the playoffs the last two years is because they hadn't lost many players at all. The major hole in the defense, OLB, is a result of one instance where they did lose a guy, Pace, without having a better guy already on the roster.

No rookie has had to start for the Cardinals the last 2 seasons. This allowed the Cards to develop both DRC and BWells at their own pace.

I believe I heard something last season about how the Cards had the largest number of players with the most years with the same team in the entire NFL.
The offensive line started the season with the same 5 guys in the same positions for two years in a row.

When they were going 5-11 they were always the youngest team in the NFL, had to plug rookies into the lineup right away, and never had the same offensive line two years in a row, because they were constantly turning over the roster.

Now if the Cards can make deals where they get another equal or better veteran like you suggest later in your post that's fine. But veterans win in the NFL and the more time with the same team the better.

 

[WildBB]

You guys are so out there I don't know where to start. As the days go on and it is becoming more of a reality that Rolle will be cut outright for no compensation the excuses are comming in faster and faster.

I DON'T CARE what Rolle is worth or what he can get on the open market. What I do know is that some team will be offering more than what we are to get him if we do let him hit the open market. That, plus the fact that we have no replacement sets his value. If this team DECIDES to let all theses starters walk based on money when there is no cap hell, no salary cap, no penalty for resigning your own, but major limitations on what you can bring back in, and they choose to release pro-bowl caliber players for zero in return, tne they are obviously not in it for the win/loss record.

I hate to say it, but if they let Rolle and Dansby go and get nothing in return, then it would be a pure money play by the team and I will not be renewing my season tickets. Anyone who wants to make excuses for this type of B.S. in my opinion is a sheep and you are the reason we have been in the cellar for 20 of the last 22 years.

I do not want to watch what happened 10 years ago, happen again and stand by and make up excuses for the pathetic front office. If they can't extend Rolle and/or Dansby with no cap, then they just don't care enough to win. We will be in no uncertain terms giving the division away over a couple million dollars which the idiots would make up with a home playoff game anyway.

Smart teams turn over players who have priced themselves out. See NE and Pitt as prime examples. That is why they stay competitive year in and out. They pick up extra draft picks and reload, through the draft mainly.

With the new CBA coming out after this season the uncapped year is smoke and mirrors. Going forward teams will have less to spend on their players and the teams who give in to the unrealistic market demands of some will be regretting their decision the year after next.

Again the players have to be willing and realistic going ahead. FS's can be replaced. WILB's too. Not a problem. Bring in pro's who have reasonable demands and develop your own youngsters. Keep the core interior players or the Fitzgeralds and Warners if you have the opportunity to do so, which they did at their respective times. Now they're reaching out to Dockett, early. Nobody is mentioning that.

 

[kerouac9]

Smart teams turn over players who have priced themselves out. See NE and Pitt as prime examples. That is why they stay competitive year in and out. They pick up extra draft picks and reload, through the draft mainly.

With the new CBA coming out after this season the uncapped year is smoke and mirrors. Going forward teams will have less to spend on their players and the teams who give in to the unrealistic market demands of some will be regretting their decision the year after next.

Again the players have to be willing and realistic going ahead. FS's can be replaced. WILB's too. Not a problem. Bring in pro's who have reasonable demands and develop your own youngsters. Keep the core interior players or the Fitzgeralds and Warners if you have the opportunity to do so, which they did at their respective times. Now they're reaching out to Dockett, early. Nobody is mentioning that.

You have seen this season's free agency list, haven't you?

And it's weird that people are assuming that Rolle has unreasonable demands. The Cards owe him $16 million for this season. That's what he wants to make--total--this year. He said he wouldn't take a pay cut. But who's to say that he's the one with unreasonable demands right now? It could be that the Cards do want him to take a pay cut based on money he's earned.