Antrel Rolle

[az1965]

You can't blame it on the coaching. There is a full-time TE coach who works with these three guys, plus former OC Rowen was the tight end coach at Kansas City. I don't buy the coaching part. What I buy is that Pope's height advantage in college isn't there in the NFL. He has to be more athletic and powerful than simply tall.

There is a reason Rowen is not coaching anymore and the rest of the coaching staff is going to be canned pretty soon...

 

[Pariah]

There is a reason Rowen is not coaching anymore and the rest of the coaching staff is going to be canned pretty soon...

The rest of the staff are going tp be scapegoats, too?

 

[Scott MS]

There is a reason Rowen is not coaching anymore and the rest of the coaching staff is going to be canned pretty soon...

You're right. So Rowen can go back to K.C. and continue coaching Tony Gonzalez.

From Rowen's bio: • Tutored Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez for six seasons (1999-2004) while in Kansas City, helping the record setting tight end earn six consecutive trips to the Pro Bowl.

 

[Pariah]

Bergen is easily among the bottom 10, if not 5.

I disagree. I think just like any other player (save Fitz and Boldin) in this offense, he looks a little worse than he is. Without looking at it carefully, I'd rank him in the middle to the back-end of the middle of the pack.

 

[az1965]

You're right. So Rowen can go back to K.C. and continue coaching Tony Gonzalez.

From Rowen's bio: • Tutored Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez for six seasons (1999-2004) while in Kansas City, helping the record setting tight end earn six consecutive trips to the Pro Bowl.

Sure, he can go wherever it works. Obviously there no such results to be shown here in Arizona and that is what counts. I don't care **** what anyone has done anywhere. Bottom line is this coaching staff failed here -- each one of them.

 

[Russ Smith]

You can't blame it on the coaching. There is a full-time TE coach who works with these three guys, plus former OC Rowen was the tight end coach at Kansas City. I don't buy the coaching part. What I buy is that Pope's height advantage in college isn't there in the NFL. He has to be more athletic and powerful than simply tall.

Yeah but the fulltime TE coach who you speak of is hargrave, who's main qualifications are that he's buddies with Dennis Green. He's coached TE's once before in his career, his first year in Minnesota before becoming a RB coach there. in college he played DB, as a college coach he coached WR's at Houston(during the Andre Ware era when they basically had no TE on the team).

Before he became Green's special offensive assistant, he was the defensive coordinator at Lindenwood College in Missouri.

Its a bit unfair to expect Rowen to be both the OC and the TE coach so I suspect the bulk of the coaching our TE's get, is from Hargrave, especially now that Rowen is essentially in exile.

 

[Scott MS]

Regardless, I don't buy the coaching excuse. The team brought in Steve Loney as Offensive Line Coach after spending 3 years at Minnesota doing the same job (after Denny Green's tenre). They had a decent line and Mike Tice as the head coach.

Why didn't Steve show up and fix our O-line through coaching?

I think it's the players, more than anything. I don't agree that getting a new T.E. coach is going to solve our TE problems. More play calling featuring the use of the T.E. will help, more strength will help, and less buttery popcorn on the hands prior to the game will help.

 

[az1965]

Regardless, I don't buy the coaching excuse. The team brought in Steve Loney as Offensive Line Coach after spending 3 years at Minnesota doing the same job (after Denny Green's tenre). They had a decent line and Mike Tice as the head coach.

Why didn't Steve show up and fix our O-line through coaching?

I think it's the players, more than anything. I don't agree that getting a new T.E. coach is going to solve our TE problems. More play calling featuring the use of the T.E. will help, more strength will help, and less buttery popcorn on the hands prior to the game will help.

Both go hand in hand... you have to have good players and you have to have good coaches to utilize the talent properly and to coach up young developing players.

Yeah, Loney may be a decent coach but the OL talent is just atrocious. I think the OL has started to show some signs of life lately though.

 

[Russ Smith]

Regardless, I don't buy the coaching excuse. The team brought in Steve Loney as Offensive Line Coach after spending 3 years at Minnesota doing the same job (after Denny Green's tenre). They had a decent line and Mike Tice as the head coach.

Why didn't Steve show up and fix our O-line through coaching?

I think it's the players, more than anything. I don't agree that getting a new T.E. coach is going to solve our TE problems. More play calling featuring the use of the T.E. will help, more strength will help, and less buttery popcorn on the hands prior to the game will help.

I don't think a new TE coach is going to fix anything by himself either, I'm just saying that saying we have a full time TE coach is sort of meaningless without being in context.


My complaint on Pope always was plays too high so he can't block, maybe he's not very coachable, or maybe he's just not getting very good coaching, don't really know. I recall a PFW blurb that said while the Cards are disappointed with him so far people on the team will point out that with Hargrave as the TE coach, it couldn't be worse for a young and quite raw TE.

Pope has talent the big concern for me this year is his hands, seems like he drops half the passes that get to him.

 

[CtCardinals78]

The bust!

Amen
How come when I think of Antrel Rolle I think of Tom Knight?

 

[red desert]

Rolle also seems quite a bit thicker and bigger than last season. I do hope he hasn't enrolled in the David Boston and Thomas Jones school of muscle. His constant "yapping" on the field gives me reason for pause on the issue.

 

[Russ Smith]

Amen
How come when I think of Antrel Rolle I think of Tom Knight?

Because neither has shown the ability to play the ball in the air?

My memories of Knight were always in good position, never made the play. With Rolle he's often out of position, but when he IS in position, he still can't seem to make the play.

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree. I think just like any other player (save Fitz and Boldin) in this offense, he looks a little worse than he is. Without looking at it carefully, I'd rank him in the middle to the back-end of the middle of the pack.

Sigh. I can give you 30 TEs who are hands down better than Adam Bergen. He wouldn't crack the lineup on most NFL rosters, much less start. Ready?

1. Antonio Gates
2. Tony Gonzales
3. Ben Watson
4. Kellen Winslow II
5. Alge Crumpler
6. Jerramy Stevens
7. Itula Mili
8. Dan Campbell
9. Dallas Clark
10. Jason Whitten
11. Cam Cleeland
12. Chris Cooley
13. Christian Fauria
14. Bubba Franks
15. Todd Heap
16. Doug Jolley
17. Heath Miller
18. Alex Smith
19. Erron Kinney
20. Kris Mangum
21. Randy McMichael
22. Justin Peele
23. Marcus Pollard
24. Robert Royal
25. Bo Scaife
26. Jeremy Shockey
27. Ben Troupe
28. Ben Utecht
29. Daniel Graham
30. Jermaine Wiggins

And I still haven't mentioned Anthony Wrightster, Fasano, L.J. Smith, Tony Scheffler, Marcedes Lewis, Joe Klopfenstein, or Vernon Davis. You've got to be kidding me if you don't think Adam Bergen is anywhere near among the top 25 tight ends in the NFL.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Adam Bergen = Steve Bush.

Both will live comfortably for a long time thanks to the generosity of the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh, and I forgot Jim Kleinsasser. He's better than Bergen, too.

 

[john h]

Rolle gets exploited by every team we play. WRs love matching up with him. Sad.

Much to slow. Cannot cover speed receivers. Another of our great #1 bust.

 

[Pariah]

1. Antonio Gates - given
2. Tony Gonzales -given
3. Ben Watson - given
4. Kellen Winslow II - absolutley
5. Alge Crumpler -yup
6. Jerramy Stevens - maybe. Maybe not. He hasn't done much.
7. Itula Mili - maybe in his prime, not anymore
8. Dan Campbell - yup
9. Dallas Clark - yup
10. Jason Whitten -yup
11. Cam Cleeland - not anymore
12. Chris Cooley -yup
13. Christian Fauria - not anymore
14. Bubba Franks - probably
15. Todd Heap - given
16. Doug Jolley - nope--he never panned out
17. Heath Miller - yup
18. Alex Smith -yup
19. Erron Kinney - probably
20. Kris Mangum - nope
21. Randy McMichael - yup
22. Justin Peele - I'm not familiar with him
23. Marcus Pollard - not anymore
24. Robert Royal - probably not
25. Bo Scaife - 'bout the same
26. Jeremy Shockey - given
27. Ben Troupe - yup
28. Ben Utecht - bout the same
29. Daniel Graham - yup
30. Jermaine Wiggins - yup

And I still haven't mentioned Anthony Wrightster ('bout the same), Fasano (maybe...we haven't seen much of him), L.J. Smith (yup), Tony Scheffler (he's not panning out--he's been inactive for a lot of games), Marcedes Lewis (yup), Joe Klopfenstein (probably), or Vernon Davis (yup). You've got to be kidding me if you don't think Adam Bergen is anywhere near among the top 25 tight ends in the NFL.

Nope. Not kidding.

Bergen plays on a team without 2 pro-bowl WRs and looks to the TE a little more often and I think he's a middle of the pack guy.

 

[Duckjake]

25. Bo Scaife - 'bout the same

How many TE's does Tennesse have anyway, a dozen?

Scaife's numbers for this year are far better than Bergen's. I'd trade right now. Even throw in Pope.

 

[kerouac9]

The fact that you think that Adam Bergen is "about the same" as Jerramy Stevens tells me all I need to know about your NFL knowledge. Thanks for keeping me up to date. Now I know that you have no idea about teams not called the Arizona Cardinals, and only a little bit of a clue of those 60 guys.

 

[Pariah]

Now I know that you have no idea about teams not called the Arizona Cardinals, and only a little bit of a clue of those 60 guys.

You go on thinking that K9. Have fun in your lonely little world.

 

[BigDavis75]

You can't blame it on the coaching. There is a full-time TE coach who works with these three guys, plus former OC Rowen was the tight end coach at Kansas City. I don't buy the coaching part. What I buy is that Pope's height advantage in college isn't there in the NFL. He has to be more athletic and powerful than simply tall.

Did you watch Pope in college? He was an absolute beast.

 

[D-Dogg]

The rest of the staff are going tp be scapegoats, too?

No, they suck too. No scapegoating there...the whole thing will be flushed out.

 

[Pariah]

No, they suck too. No scapegoating there...the whole thing will be flushed out.

My point was that I don't think Rowen was a bad OC, he was fired because someone's head needed to roll.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

No, they suck too. No scapegoating there...the whole thing will be flushed out.

You can't do that in one off season. Pick 30 guys you want.....who would they be??

 

[NEZCardsfan]

My point was that I don't think Rowen was a bad OC, he was fired because someone's head needed to roll.

I don't think he was great....and is entirely replaceable. But not by Kruczek!! I agree about the scape goating.