Antrel Rolle

[Cbus cardsfan]

He absolutely stunk it up. Whiffed huge on a couple of receivers allowing YAC. Took a totally lame angle on a blitz. Chose to utilize his favorite dive at the legs tackle instead of actually using his arms on a tackle that allowed for a sizable game.

The list goes on. Rolle specifically was getting boo'd in the area I sat in. It's not just a figment of an imagination, the guy plays soft.

he didn't whiff on the blitz. The guard(or center) dropped back and was in his way to the QB. Rolle was forced to try and get around him or are you no expecting him to blow up 320lb. offensive linemen? Watch the replay.It was no whiff.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Exactly. Jumping all over Rolle after a bad game or two? He's had FAR more then a bad game or two. Top 10 picks don't deserve 2 seasons to come into their own. We have got very little production out of Rolle and he deserves every bit of criticism.

Considering he's played in only 15 games, it's still less than a full season. Plus, i just showed how it took about until the 4th year for the great Ty Law to come into his own. So, i don't really get what your argument is.

Here's another thing. They say it takes a rookie WR about 3 years, on average, to become a significant,complete WR and that it is very hard for them to have a major impact in their first year. So,why is it that the guys drafted to cover these receivers aren't given the same learning curve? I think they should be.Hence, the term picking on a rookie CB. Rolle is still basically in his first year of playing CB at the NFL level.Most rookie CB's don't even start.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Where was Ty Law drafted? Was it 6th overall?

He was drafted 23rd overall by New England.

 

[kerouac9]

Considering he's played in only 15 games, it's still less than a full season. Plus, i just showed how it took about until the 4th year for the great Ty Law to come into his own. So, i don't really get what your argument is.

Here's another thing. They say it takes a rookie WR about 3 years, on average, to become a significant,complete WR and that it is very hard for them to have a major impact in their first year. So,why is it that the guys drafted to cover these receivers aren't given the same learning curve? I think they should be.Hence, the term picking on a rookie CB. Rolle is still basically in his first year of playing CB at the NFL level.Most rookie CB's don't even start.

Hey, the ol' Josh McCown defense! I'm glad to hear it deployed again. Because multiple starts worked out so well for Josh.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Hey, the ol' Josh McCown defense! I'm glad to hear it deployed again. Because multiple starts worked out so well for Josh.

Apples and oranges, it's applicable in Rolle's case. McCown was terrible from day 1, wasn't a high rated 1st rounder, and stunk in college. Rolle has the ability to be a good CB.McCown never had the ability to be a good QB. If Rolle isn't any good at the end of next year then i'd look at moving him but, to me, it's just way too early in his development to know how good/bad he's going to be.

 

[seesred]

IMO Rolle will become a game changer in this league. From what I've seen he can hit with the best now and his coverage has gotten better as now the coach is letting him move towards the line. In addittion I'm sure Bill Bidwill has nothing to do with Rolles growth or lack off, it was Micheals fault this time.

GBR
40

 

[Faithful]

In addittion I'm sure Bill Bidwill has nothing to do with Rolles growth or lack off, it was Micheals fault this time.

GBR
40

 

[Russ Smith]

Considering he's played in only 15 games, it's still less than a full season. Plus, i just showed how it took about until the 4th year for the great Ty Law to come into his own. So, i don't really get what your argument is.

.

Law had 3 picks in each of his first 3 seasons, Rolle has 1 pick in his first 2 seasons combined, admittedly only 15 games total, but still well short of what Law did. Rolle makes more tackles, again because of how he plays off WR's and then comes up and makes the stop. It's very hard to judge CB's on pure stats because tackles and INT's and passes defended don't show the number of times he covers his man and they go the other way.

Pretty much every game this year a team has gone after Rolle, they have had success, they actually have picked on him more than Green. With Macklin in last game, they picked on him, and surprise, Rolle had a better game.

He's not a bad player but he was picked too high as a CB, Spencer from SF is essentially the same player as Rolle and he was the 26th player picked in teh 2nd round. Everything we say on this board about Rolle, they say about Spencer in SF, good tackler, has good size, lacks top end speed and recovery speed, gives too much cushion, needs to make plays on the ball when he has a chance. 0 picks as a rookie, 4 last year, 0 this year.

Rolle is not a BAD CB, but he's nowhere near elite nor has he shown any reason to expect he will be an elite CB anytime soon. I wish we played a scheme that suited him better but honestly they're playing the scheme that fits the personnel, 2 safeties who aren't good in coverage. Hopefully the next staff gets more out of Antrell than Solomon and Pendergast have.

 

[BigDavis75]

Law had 3 picks in each of his first 3 seasons, Rolle has 1 pick in his first 2 seasons combined, admittedly only 15 games total, but still well short of what Law did. Rolle makes more tackles, again because of how he plays off WR's and then comes up and makes the stop. It's very hard to judge CB's on pure stats because tackles and INT's and passes defended don't show the number of times he covers his man and they go the other way.

Pretty much every game this year a team has gone after Rolle, they have had success, they actually have picked on him more than Green. With Macklin in last game, they picked on him, and surprise, Rolle had a better game.

He's not a bad player but he was picked too high as a CB, Spencer from SF is essentially the same player as Rolle and he was the 26th player picked in teh 2nd round. Everything we say on this board about Rolle, they say about Spencer in SF, good tackler, has good size, lacks top end speed and recovery speed, gives too much cushion, needs to make plays on the ball when he has a chance. 0 picks as a rookie, 4 last year, 0 this year.

Rolle is not a BAD CB, but he's nowhere near elite nor has he shown any reason to expect he will be an elite CB anytime soon. I wish we played a scheme that suited him better but honestly they're playing the scheme that fits the personnel, 2 safeties who aren't good in coverage. Hopefully the next staff gets more out of Antrell than Solomon and Pendergast have.

I'd say Spencer is a better player though, specifically he gets his hands on a lot more balls than Rolle does (Spencer was more effective lat year though). I think another good comparison could be Mike Rumph who was a U guy also, not in terms of their styles of play but the difficulty of transition from college to pro and then Rolle could also be possibly moved to FS like Rumph was.

 

[football karma]

At this point, Rolle is a good #2 corner. Macklin/Green are decent #3 corners. Obviously, the Cards need a #1 guy to allow everyone else to go to their ideal spot.

Taking a #2 corner at 8th overall hurts opportunity cost wise -- but thats about it.

Its not like the Cards have cap issues, so they can afford to pay a top 10 pick to play as the #2 corner. Given the way they structure contracts and the way they moved a bonus for Rolle into this year -- his cap hit in the next two years probably will be like a #2 corner.

Part of Antrells problem is catching the darn ball. Dude has had his hands on about 4 interceptions this year that he hasnt caught (including a killer against Dallas that would have gone for six and a tie game at the half).

I just dont get why we have an eight page thread down on the guy.

 

[BigDavis75]

I agree that Rolle shouldn't have the benefit of us saying "oh well, it's okay, he's young." If you are good you are generally going to produce. If you look at the secondary guys drafted last year, many of them started and contributed and many of them are better players than Rolle. Also, look at this year, Bethea is a very good S and Dawan Landry is having one of the best S rookie seasons in a long long time. Look at the first round corners this year of Cromartie and Jonathon Joseph have been very good and add Tye Hill, Harper (who was great pre-injury), Manning, and Whitner and Ko Simpson in Buffalo and it is impossible to use the age defense for Rolle.

 

[earthsci]

I agree that Rolle shouldn't have the benefit of us saying "oh well, it's okay, he's young." If you are good you are generally going to produce. If you look at the secondary guys drafted last year, many of them started and contributed and many of them are better players than Rolle. Also, look at this year, Bethea is a very good S and Dawan Landry is having one of the best S rookie seasons in a long long time. Look at the first round corners this year of Cromartie and Jonathon Joseph have been very good and add Tye Hill, Harper (who was great pre-injury), Manning, and Whitner and Ko Simpson in Buffalo and it is impossible to use the age defense for Rolle.

#1 You really can't compare the CB position to S.

#2 Honestly I ask this without knowing, how many of these guys are the #1 Cb on their team?

 

[BigDavis75]

#1 You really can't compare the CB position to S.

#2 Honestly I ask this without knowing, how many of these guys are the #1 Cb on their team?

I'm just rattling off names for young secondary guys, I didn't hold back a guy if he was a S. When you say #1 CB, I'm assuming you mean a LCB and Tye Hill is playing there, Hill (started as a rook also), Washington, Corey Webster, and Ellis Hobbs. I would also say all of those guys, with the exception of Hill (limited time) and maybe maybe Hill are better than Rolle. Toss in guys I didn't mention yet such as Pac-Man, Darrent Williams, McFadden, Travis Daniels (he has been hurt but I really liked what I saw from him as a rook), and also Brodney Poole who is now playing CB and had a nice game against the Steelers. Also, some more safeties: Chris Harris, Considine (he will be a very good player) and the amazing Kerry Rhodes. Heck, even Foxworth, I think he sucks but some people like him. Add up all these players I mentioned and it makes Rolle look like absolute trash.

 

[SunCityCarl]

Great tackler though!

& bump! Just like most of his "tackles"....

 

[devilfan02]

Thank God I started this thread. Rolle is a truly bad DB. He is horrendous and gets beat up and down the field by whoever he lines up against. The move to FS MUST be made this offseason. What a bust

 

[JeffGollin]

IMO Rolle will become a game changer in this league. From what I've seen he can hit with the best now and his coverage has gotten better as now the coach is letting him move towards the line....

I haven't given up on Antrel, because he's willing to stick his nose in there and can occasionally make big plays.

But I disagree that (a) his coverage has gotten better or (b) his coach is letting him cover tighter. He had a really bad game against the Vikes. And the first thing I noticed was how far off his man he was playing.

Scooting forward a few years, I'm not sure he can match up stride for stride with the faster NFL wideouts, and right now he's not winning enough of the physical matchups with the bigger receivers either. That's not to say he can't become a decent but not great #2, but I think he might make a great centerfielder type FS.

Problem is - Great corners are a scarce commodity, and until we can find 2 or 3 of them who can cover big guys and fast guys, we may have to leave Rolle where he is - at least for now.

 

[Scott MS]

At least some of you watch the games. Rolle has been picked on all season with pretty good success.

I guess the practice will help him as the Cards complete the schedule for the remainder of the year, but he will be a weak link next season if he doesn't improve.


Besides the O-line, I would say CB and TE are two positions that really haven't panned for Denny despite some high draft picks and free agency signings.

 

[Pariah]

Besides the O-line, I would say CB and TE are two positions that really haven't panned for Denny despite some high draft picks and free agency signings.

Am I the only one who doesn't think Bergen is that bad? Also, to paraphrase John Lennon, "Give Pope a chance."

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Rolle better be a good tackler, or he'd be the worst player in the NFL. People catch the ball underneath him all game long. So we should applaude him for shoving the guy out of bounds??

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Bergen is that bad? Also, to paraphrase John Lennon, "Give Pope a chance."

I don't think Bergen is a bad receiving Tight End.

 

[Renz]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Bergen is that bad? Also, to paraphrase John Lennon, "Give Pope a chance."

Bergen is average IMO. His fumbling makes him expendable.

 

[Scott MS]

How about Pope. Wow, a great 3rd rounder.

The "dream team" TE corp:
Bergen
Pope
Wakefield

(Where's Dave McGinnis??)

 

[az1965]

Too early to give up on Pope. He has not been used much and more than likely has not received any proper coaching. Yeah, 3rd rounder too high for a project but he has the tools. I'd like to see what the next coaching staff can do with him.

 

[kerouac9]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Bergen is that bad? Also, to paraphrase John Lennon, "Give Pope a chance."

That bad in comparison to what? To an undrafted free agent? I don't know. There are a lot of those guys playing well, and among starting TEs in the NFL, Bergen is easily among the bottom 10, if not 5.

But he's way better than if my postman was playing TE in the NFL.

 

[Scott MS]

Too early to give up on Pope. He has not been used much and more than likely has not received any proper coaching.

You can't blame it on the coaching. There is a full-time TE coach who works with these three guys, plus former OC Rowen was the tight end coach at Kansas City. I don't buy the coaching part. What I buy is that Pope's height advantage in college isn't there in the NFL. He has to be more athletic and powerful than simply tall.