Big Jake article

[schutd]

Originally posted by creed
Its not illogical to blame Dice at all. He took less money...went to a lessor team...and failed terribly. The outcome was bad for all concerned. Even the Nuggets didnt want him anymore and traded him for Nene.

Hindsight is 20/20, Jack. Its also illogical to use outcome to justify blame.

If you guys can prove to me that he did something wrong that screwed the Suns, Ill concede. You all have done nothing but give me emotional responses about loyalty, and that means nothing more than you took business a littel too personally.

So prove it. Stop speaking in terms of having your feelings hurt.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It was a blatant case of tampering, and the league did nothing. That is my only real problem.

Did he screw the suns? Yah, he did, but it was a risk the suns knew about when they made the trade.

It also stung a lot more he went back to the team that traded him.......

 

[elindholm]

The only question I have is whether McDyess and/or his agent gave the Suns reason to believe that he was prepared to enter into a long-term arrangement with the team. If, during negotiations, he was all gung-ho about a future with the Suns, then that was deceptive. And frankly, I rather doubt that the Suns would have made such a major trade unless getting a pretty clear idea that McDyess was enthusiastic about staying in Phoenix.

But if the Suns made the trade without having any idea whether McDyess would stick around, then I agree with schutd, it's just their mistake (or bad luck).

 

[creed]

Originally posted by schutd
Hindsight is 20/20, Jack. Its also illogical to use outcome to justify blame.

One doesnt have to be a fortune teller to see that walking away for a winning and stable organization like the Suns and walking away from JKidd was a BAD move.

Dice what were you thinking??

 

[elindholm]

I think schutd's point is that McDyess was free to make that bad move. There is a difference between a mistake and a sin.

 

[creed]

Originally posted by elindholm
I think schutd's point is that McDyess was free to make that bad move. There is a difference between a mistake and a sin.

It's obvious that Dice was free to do what he wants. But its just as obvious to many Suns fans to dislike his stupid decision and not wish him the best.

 

[sunsfn]

---------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by schutd
Well loyalty shmoyalty. Its business. I agree, Lucas, Dutt and VanExel are to blame here in the greatest collusion-never-to-be-investigated this league has ever seen.
--------------------------------------------------
elindholm then said.
The only question I have is whether McDyess and/or his agent gave the Suns reason to believe that he was prepared to enter into a long-term arrangement with the team.
------------------------------------------------

I agree, there should have been an investigation.

Dan Issel was the coach and he was involved.
McDumb also changed agents in the middle of this.

So, his agent that got him to the suns and was probably prepared to have McDumb sign a new contract, was fired for another agent......
---------
The Nuggets were also involved with the fiasco on the sign and trade for Mutombo that did not get done. It was talked about heavily and the league would not let it happen.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Wally
On the other hand, Ainge didn't play him very much & he wasn't happy about that.

To this day, I don't believe he would have left if Ainge didn't leave him on the bench during crunch time of every game. After the way the Suns built him up, who could blame him for reacting?

It's one example of the same old story. You come to a guard-oriented team, you're not going to stay in the loop.

Originally posted by Dr. Dumas
Changes will need to be made from the top down, starting with FJ.

Jerry, Bryan, Cotton, Van. I wouldn't exactly call Frank Johnson the top. Any more than Scott Skiles was, or Danny Ainge, or Paul Westphal.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I'm pulling for Big Jake.

I have to admit, I wish he was still on our team.

I'm glad that Suckalidis is gone!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by BC867
To this day, I don't believe he would have left if Ainge didn't leave him on the bench during crunch time of every game. After the way the Suns built him up, who could blame him for reacting?

That is just, well, not correct.

McDyess was a young player, without the best basketball mind. He needed to be developed, not left to hang out there, especially during crunch time. If Ainge had left him out there during crunch time and he would have blown a few games (which he would have) he would have been a head case to rival BY Kim.

McDyess's game improved tremendously under Ainge. It was happening. He was ready to take the next step. But Dice was too stupid (sorry, no other word) to realize it. So he went back to Denver and ruined his career.

I feel pity for Dice, and disgust for the cheaters that used him, and for the league that did nothing about it.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by JCSunsfan
McDyess's game improved tremendously under Ainge. It was happening. He was ready to take the next step. But Dice was too stupid (sorry, no other word) to realize it.

That may all be true, Sunsfan. But apparently management didn't do a very good job of convincing him, and he bailed out . . . much to their disapointment.

They share in the responsibility. Correction: they have the responsibility. They brought a young power player on board and lost him after one season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by BC867
That may all be true, Sunsfan. But apparently management didn't do a very good job of convincing him, and he bailed out . . . much to their disapointment.

They share in the responsibility. Correction: they have the responsibility. They brought a young power player on board and lost him after one season.

They never really had his ear. He had buddies who were constantly telling him how much he was being misused.

The lockout gave Nick Van Exel and co. an exclusive ear. I really don't think there was anything more the Suns could have done.

After the season ended that year, in the news conference where Ainge was asked what plans he had for next year. He said, "We have one priority in the off-season--sign Antonio McDyess." You'd think he would have gotten the point--(we want you!).

Oh, well. No point in reliving that mess any more.

 

[creed]

Yeah we have Amare

* Dice

 

[Errntknght]

I have to disagree with you, JCSunsfan. McDyess fit very well with the Suns and played well from the beginning. All during the season I was appalled at the way Ainge benched him during fourth quarters and you could read in his body language that Dice was unhappy about it. Toward the end of the year several people on the message board I was then on voiced worries that he would refuse to return because of that treatment by Danny boy. Perhaps Minercon could verify that though I'm not sure she had joined the board then. That doesn't prove it was the deciding factor but it's certainly not just an after-the-fact theory by Ainge bashers.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Errntknght
I have to disagree with you, JCSunsfan. McDyess fit very well with the Suns and played well from the beginning. All during the season I was appalled at the way Ainge benched him during fourth quarters and you could read in his body language that Dice was unhappy about it. Toward the end of the year several people on the message board I was then on voiced worries that he would refuse to return because of that treatment by Danny boy. Perhaps Minercon could verify that though I'm not sure she had joined the board then. That doesn't prove it was the deciding factor but it's certainly not just an after-the-fact theory by Ainge bashers.

I don't think I was even a member of any of the Phoenix Suns message boards at that time, but apparently I was feeling the same way as you guys. I remember too many times thinking that Antonio McDyess looked very unhappy on the bench.

It doesn't really matter now though. Antonio McDyess and status many problems actually getting onto the court as Tom Gugliotta.

Joe Mama

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by Oran
I'm glad that Suckalidis is gone!

I second that. But it's over now. And the McDyess fiasco is over too.

FJ doen't worry me. Shawn Marion does. Talk about regressing.

 

[George O'Brien]

Little Jake

It has been widely reported that Voskuhl suggested to FJ that he be brought in off the bench.

Little Jake has a habit of collecting a lot of fouls, so when he started he tended to be pretty tentative. His numbers have improved since he returned to his "energizer" role.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I second that. But it's over now. And the McDyess fiasco is over too.

FJ doen't worry me. Shawn Marion does. Talk about regressing.

Agree. Agree. And, slightly agree.

The Big Tsak spent more time icing his back, then blocking shots.

Losing Dice infuriated and sickened me. He embarassed the C's. What goes around comes around (usually).

FJ has holes. However, he's adjusted since he's been here.

Shawn Marion is disappointing. I wouldn't say he's "regressed", but his improvement has stagnated. I expected A LOT more out of Marion this year. (Still early though)

 

[George O'Brien]

Losing Dice infuriated and sickened me. He embarassed the C's. What goes around comes around (usually).

My impression was that Dice had other issues with Ainge such as them not getting him the ball in the low post more and other tactical issues. Of course Dice was not the only player Ainge had problems with, remember Robert Horry?

My guess is that Brian Colangelo made enough mistakes during that period to get anyone other than the owner's son canned. Remember Luc Longley? The contracts offered Googs and Penny were far higher than anyone else was willing to offer.

Since that period, most of the Suns moves have been positive over the long run (trading Cliff Robinson hurt a lot, but they needed the cap flexibility, trading Rodney Rogers killed us the first year but brought in JJ, etc). Still, the Dice fiasco put the team back at least three years.