Bobby Massie

[Mulli]

Whatever Whiz, Graves and the Bidwill's had to say, I agree with.

Homer!

 

[Pariah]

I don't recall the Cards have $49M dollars, back in the day, to throw at a failed LT.

So Grimm was only half the problem. And then it was compounded by drafting Levi to replace him.

What has Grimm done RIGHT in your estimation? Or, is he just a cipher that gets a pass in your book because you're not an OL coach and as such ill-equipped to form an opinion?

 

[Mulli]

##timeout## can you guys spare me from arguing about this whole thing again? Please? You are free to continue, but isn't there anything else?

 

[D-Dogg]

Levi Brown is subpar. He had Grimm's stamp of approval. Didn't really get a sniff on the open market.

Other teams are able to get late rounders to play solid on the line. Prior to Massie, we have not been able to do this. It's been a steady stream of turnstiles. You use the excuse that they didn't go elsewhere and play well...but all that proves is we shouldn't have taken them in the first place, even late. So I am seeing a poor evaluator of talent for one, and then a lack of being able to coach up the talent he does have for two. If he was a good oline coach, shouldn't he have been able to coach up at least ONE of those late rounders? One? Or is his evaluation of oline play so horrid that he can't spot good talent at all? Grabbed a mediocre at best tackle with a top 5 pick, then whiffed on the rest. Massie fell to us as the BPA, with 1st/2nd round talent, so I think that pick was a no brainer.

And with the state of the line for years, a good oline coach should be beating his bestie friend's (the head coach, btw) head in every day to get him some more talent either via free agency or the draft. Guys he can coach up. But he just seems content to roll with it, and throw guys like Young out there to see if our QBs can thrive under duress. He'd rather catch Springsteen at halftime and collect another fat check.

Gray cup, schmay cup. Just because Archie Amerson played in Canada doesn't mean it's really football. (and kidding, because I love canada.)

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Levi Brown is subpar. He had Grimm's stamp of approval. Didn't really get a sniff on the open market.

Other teams are able to get late rounders to play solid on the line. Prior to Massie, we have not been able to do this. It's been a steady stream of turnstiles. You use the excuse that they didn't go elsewhere and play well...but all that proves is we shouldn't have taken them in the first place, even late. So I am seeing a poor evaluator of talent for one, and then a lack of being able to coach up the talent he does have for two. If he was a good oline coach, shouldn't he have been able to coach up at least ONE of those late rounders? One? Or is his evaluation of oline play so horrid that he can't spot good talent at all? Grabbed a mediocre at best tackle with a top 5 pick, then whiffed on the rest. Massie fell to us as the BPA, with 1st/2nd round talent, so I think that pick was a no brainer.

And with the state of the line for years, a good oline coach should be beating his bestie friend's (the head coach, btw) head in every day to get him some more talent either via free agency or the draft. Guys he can coach up. But he just seems content to roll with it, and throw guys like Young out there to see if our QBs can thrive under duress. He'd rather catch Springsteen at halftime and collect another fat check.

Gray cup, schmay cup. Just because Archie Amerson played in Canada doesn't mean it's really football. (and kidding, because I love canada.)

Well, it's a wonder that he has a job...

 

[D-Dogg]

Well, it's a wonder that he has a job...

Peter principle.

Reputation as a Hog and Hall of famer.

Charisma.

Besties with the head coach.

Pictures of somebody important.



It's a wonder our QBs are alive. It's a wonder our Oline is still an issue, every bit as much as it was the day he arrived. It's a wonder, and a blunder.

 

[Duckjake]

It's a wonder our QBs are alive. It's a wonder our Oline is still an issue, every bit as much as it was the day he arrived. It's a wonder, and a blunder.

And that is exactly why I blame the coaching for the problem. Any time you have several different players and get the same results and nothing improves over time it is coaching not the players.

Some examples are: they still struggle to run a screen pass, still have trouble with short yardage run plays and, though I haven't seen it so far this season but then I haven't really thoroughly reviewed the games, still allow pass rushers to go unblocked at the QB, and allow backside defenders to blow up running plays.

 

[Pariah]

Well, it's a wonder that he has a job...

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Does anyone know how many sacks the Cardinals have allawed this year compared to after 2 games last season? It does appeat the line has gotten better

Actually the Cards were sacked 5 times in their first 2 last year as apposed to 2 this year, but there have been 9 QB hits this year and only 7 last year. Overall I feel like the line when giving Batiste some help with backs and tight-ends is doing a pretty good job in pass protection and looked decent in running the ball in the NE game.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Mildly suspect... that only thing you know (or should know) about coaching an O-line is that you can't do it, and are in no position to judge.

He is free to bang that drum, I don't stand in the way. And, I'm free to make my assessement that he may be less than well-informed.

BAH! You're no fun!

Its all good.

I suspect that your suspicions just might be suspect to suspisions.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

But that's exactly right. Davis went on to be a dominant GUARD for the Cowboys.

I call bull pucky.

When and where did he become better than average ?

Cause of Pro Bowls?

Pro Bowls mean 1 thing.....popularity.

Leonard Davis did nothing in Dallas that made me regret losing him. By the time it was time to re-sign Davis, Denny Green had effectively destroyed any progress we made with our offensive line, and Davis was damaged goods IMO.

 

[Pariah]

I call bull pucky.

When and where did he become better than average ?

As stated, when he went to Dallas. He was WAY better than average his first couple of years there.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

But - again - if they were any good these guys would have been coached up and playing for other teams after being cut in AZ?


(Sendlein)

Agreed.

But Grimm has had a hand in things since 2008. Levi Brown and Lyle Sendlein are the only two he seems to be able to justify keeping around after bringing the guy in.

So, I guess what it comes down to is that not only are the Cardinals horrible at find and evaluating offense line talent, but they can't coach it up either.

We can say the team has no talent to work with, but then again the team does practically nothing to jump on opportunities to bring in talent.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

As stated, when he went to Dallas. He was WAY better than average his first couple of years there.

Fair enough. I am biased with the horse whisperer.

I just remember his last few years there, the only time I heard his name was for cuts for salary reasons.

Could have been a good guard for us. I am willing to say that. Should have kept Kendell, Davis, and Shelton, IMO.

They are all better than anything we have had, and in the two guards' cases better than what we have now.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Send is part of the problem. Mediocre at best. I find it hard to believe Grimm has no input on OL draftees. He picks them and they get cut. At least partially on him.

And you haven't addressed him watching the halftime show at the Super Bowl.

+1 on all accounts.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Crazy thing is that OL yesterday seemed like one of the few games that the Cards could sorta kinda run when they needed to...

Actually the line was fine.

The difference is that Beanie Wells hits the hole and goes, and Ryan Williams likes to dance and fumble.

 

[Mulli]

Actually the line was fine.

The difference is that Beanie Wells hits the hole and goes, and Ryan Williams likes to dance and fumble.

Beanie Wells had a play where I screamed at him for running to the only place Colledge was going to be able to push his man instead of hitting the hole.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Am I the only person that sees no difference and maybe at most a slight improvement in our pass blocking from the LT position ?

So far Batiste has gone against, Clemons, and Jones.

Looks to be holding up OK.

Remember I expect comparisons to be between Batiste and Levi Brown. Not Jonathan Ogden.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Beanie Wells had a play where I screamed at him for running to the only place Colledge was going to be able to push his man instead of hitting the hole.

Yep, I do remember that.

He also missed a cut back that had a HUGE hole.

But, for the most part he was the only back to get some yardage. When Beanie runs north/south, and with power, we can run.

Our line is not good enough for dancing, you gotta get there and go while the getting is good.

 

[Mulli]

Yep, I do remember that.

He also missed a cut back that had a HUGE hole.

But, for the most part he was the only back to get some yardage. When Beanie runs north/south, and with power, we can run.

Our line is not good enough for dancing, you gotta get there and go while the getting is good.

Yep yep. I was thinking "what would Colledge have had to be able to do strengthwise in order to get the LBer out of the place Beanie ran to...Super human strength I suppose.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yep yep. I was thinking "what would Colledge have had to be able to do strengthwise in order to get the LBer out of the place Beanie ran to...Super human strength I suppose.

Thumb to the eye

:rickflairwhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo:

 

[john h]

Could it be we have at least one of the tackle spots solved?

I certainly didn't expect this at this point of the season after a very concerning pre season to put it mildly.

We sure have a big problem on the left side of our defensive line trying to block that rookie who was all over our backfield. He was getting by our defender on every play and we were not even trying double team him. We hardly even slowed him down. A couple of times he just missed Kolb as Kolb broke to the right with him right on Kolb's tail. A good rusher no doubt but a poor effort or he was totally outclassed. We might look to bringing in another defender on that side. Not later but right now. An open guy like this can give Kolb another concussion. When they watch the film on this it is not going to be hard to see.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Am I the only person that sees no difference and maybe at most a slight improvement in our pass blocking from the LT position ?

So far Batiste has gone against, Clemons, and Jones.

Looks to be holding up OK.

Remember I expect comparisons to be between Batiste and Levi Brown. Not Jonathan Ogden.

Batiste is getting schooled.

Plus he gets zero push in the running game.

 

[crisper57]

Batiste is getting schooled.

Plus he gets zero push in the running game.

He gets backwards push.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Am I mistaken, or is the title of this thread "Bobby Massie".

I am looking forward to going back and rewatching the game (I was there!). It seems like Massie's man didn't sniff Kolb all day long.