Boldin trade talk to Dolphins

[WildBB]

When did a third round pick become a crap pick??

When it's for someone with Anquan's skills and leadership, which is being way undervalued by some.

 

[cardpa]

I think you are devaluing Q a little bit. He is a 3X pro bowler and still has more upside than Marshall IMO. Marshall is in the same situation wanting a bigger contract but is more of a liability off the field than Q. We are talking about the same dude that was punting balls out of the practice field. His contract situation is going to be far worse. He will demand more money than Q and at least one team will take a flier on Q at a cheaper price than Marshall. I would rather have Q over Marshall and will take him everyday, twice on Sundays. If we took only a 3rd rounder for him, IMO, we got screwed big time.

As for Leinart, Q was his best target his rookie year. Leinart sent Q to the pro bowl in 2006 so I would have to imagine they still have rapport on the field. Q gives Leinart confidence as well as Fitz. Honestly, if it helps Leinart develop confidence on the field and groom younger receivers such as Doucet and Breaston, I would rather have Q for one more season than to get crap picks for him.

I don't see what's so funny about that, bro. Again, the trade season has not started yet and we both can agree we aren't 100% sure of what we are going to get for him. I just know if Graves settles for a 3rd, then we really did not negotiate well.

Further, keep in mind that his stats that you posted are skewed because of how Kurt spreads the ball around, especially to Fitz and Breaston. Put him in an offense where he is the focal point and those stats will balloon

Q was all these things with WAS being the key word here. His best days are behind him. If Leinart needs Q to be a good QB then we should trade him too.

 

[john h]

Yes. How will we ever replace the 81 receptions, 972 yards, and 8 TDs that he's averaged for us the last three years? I mean, those are Chad Ochocinco numbers, right there.

If you can get a third for Anquan Boldin at this point, you take it.

I think there is at least one team out there who will offer a 2nd rd pick. Maybe it want be Miami but there are to many teams needing a quality receiver. Of course we do not want to lose him one year later and get nothing. A player is worth what someone is willing to give for him and no more. He does eat up a chunk of salary which we could use to add a decent player. He wants out and wants more than we are willing to offer. We are not hurting at receiver. A trade remains a possibility.

 

[kerouac9]

We can. It's called a comp pick. That is likely what he'd get us if we let him walk assuming the rules on such things are unchanged by then. I'd do it for a 3rd+something else, but it seems idiotic to trade a guy for a third when his likely salary will net one anyways if you manage free agent signings properly.

That only happens if a 30-year-old Q is really, really good (or if he plays after a possible lockout season). Q's skills are obviously in decline; is he going to be significantly better than Bobby Wade if he's allowed to leave next year whenever NFL football begins again?

If Q comes back and has 75 catches for 700 yards and 2 TDs for whatever crap team is willing to shell out an eight-figure bonus for "leadership", I don't think we'll be seeing more than a fourth- or fifth-round pick. Remember, we didn't get more than a 7th for Calvin Pace and he's turned out a pretty good season for the Jets (80 tackles, 7 sacks, 5 forced fumbles). Pittsburgh that season lost Alan Faneca and got a fifth-round compensatory pick.

I think there is at least one team out there who will offer a 2nd rd pick. Maybe it want be Miami but there are to many teams needing a quality receiver. Of course we do not want to lose him one year later and get nothing. A player is worth what someone is willing to give for him and no more. He does eat up a chunk of salary which we could use to add a decent player. He wants out and wants more than we are willing to offer. We are not hurting at receiver. A trade remains a possibility.

Are there that many teams who need a quality receiver? B-more can get Q production and 16 games from Derrick Mason for another season. Miami got Q production from Davone Bess last season and he didn't even start. New England has Julian Edelman waiting in the wings and a bunch of picks to trade up in the draft.

There aren't a lot of other teams that are going to be looking for a 30 year old oft-injured WR who can't be depended on when games matter most (thanks for that 5 rec, 40 yard day at San Fran this year, Q) to take them over the hump.

 

[TJ]

When did a third round pick become a crap pick??

Speaking in relation to the trade. You can't tell me getting a 3rd rounder is fair market value for Q. If that's all we get, then we have a pretty inept front office.

Q was all these things with WAS being the key word here. His best days are behind him. If Leinart needs Q to be a good QB then we should trade him too.

I never saw a drop off in his play. You are treating Q like he is pushing retirement. He is 29, which is not that old in WR years. If you want to talk about "was" talk to me about T.O. Your assertion that he is past his prime baffles me.

What did change was the style of play. No longer was Q and Fitz 1a and 1b. Fitz stepped up his play to the point where he will be considered one of the best WR ever. Although Q did not make any leaps and bounds like he did, he was still effective. How is Q supposed to get his 1300 yards and 10 TDs with Fitz and Breaston on the payroll? As I stated but seems to be going over everyone's head; put Q as the focal point of the offense, like he was pre whisenhunt, and that production returns.

As for Leinart. He does not need Q to return but the transition from Warner to Leinart would go a lot smoother. Think about it. If Leinart falls off, some of the speculation will be that he did not have Q like Warner did. And I would listen to that argument because Q is still a factor in the offense as well as a leader across the team.

The bottom line is that if you get rid of Q for a 3rd round pick, you are getting rid of all the positives I have mentioned for peanuts.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

That only happens if a 30-year-old Q is really, really good (or if he plays after a possible lockout season). Q's skills are obviously in decline; is he going to be significantly better than Bobby Wade if he's allowed to leave next year whenever NFL football begins again?

If Q comes back and has 75 catches for 700 yards and 2 TDs for whatever crap team is willing to shell out an eight-figure bonus for "leadership", I don't think we'll be seeing more than a fourth- or fifth-round pick. Remember, we didn't get more than a 7th for Calvin Pace and he's turned out a pretty good season for the Jets (80 tackles, 7 sacks, 5 forced fumbles). Pittsburgh that season lost Alan Faneca and got a fifth-round compensatory pick.




Are there that many teams who need a quality receiver? B-more can get Q production and 16 games from Derrick Mason for another season. Miami got Q production from Davone Bess last season and he didn't even start. New England has Julian Edelman waiting in the wings and a bunch of picks to trade up in the draft.

There aren't a lot of other teams that are going to be looking for a 30 year old oft-injured WR who can't be depended on when games matter most (thanks for that 5 rec, 40 yard day at San Fran this year, Q) to take them over the hump.

So, what you're saying is that there is virtually no market for Q.

Under those circumstances, I'm all for keeping him, and his evidently second rate production for another year.

 

[CardinalChris]

There is no question Q has leveled off in relation to his production. I understand the "There are only so many bass to go around", but his YPC declining and only playing 12, 12, and 15 games in the last three years is a bad trend that cannot be ignored. To say we only miss out on positives without acknowledging there are some negatives to this situation is not fair. I dont agree with TJ's opinion, but I can see validity in it.

I also think it is dangerous to count on comp picks to make up for not trading him this year. Comp picks are base don salary and playing time, not stats (I think?!?!?). Not to mention without knowing how/if a new CBA in 2011 looks, the comp. pick method may not even exist in 2011.

 

[Snakester]

Man, talk about under value. Thee Anquan Boldin for a third rounder. Not in this lifetime. I sure hope the front office isn't stupid enough to make that trade. Unless we get a first rounder or two second rounders I wouldn't even think about it. There is no third round pick in this years draft that will have the impact this year that Boldin would have. Both Breaston and Doucet are turning out to be good players but neither are anywhere as good as Boldin. I am still in the camp to keep Boldin a Cardinal for life. I would prefer if he retired here. I think Boldin has another five years in him.

 

[joeshmo]

I also think it is dangerous to count on comp picks to make up for not trading him this year. Comp picks are base don salary and playing time, not stats (I think?!?!?). Not to mention without knowing how/if a new CBA in 2011 looks, the comp. pick method may not even exist in 2011.

Good thing I just didnt reply to the comp idea before reading other posts because I would have duplicated this.

Again to count on a comp pick is foolish, considering you dont know of Boldin comes out next season injury free. Who knows if any team even wants to give him a contract worthy of a 3rd round comp pick. Who knows if we dont sign more free agents then we loss thus it doesnt even matter what the contracts are anymore. Remember if you sign more players then you loss you dont get a comp pick no matter what.

 

[joeshmo]

Remember, we didn't get more than a 7th for Calvin Pace and he's turned out a pretty good season for the Jets (80 tackles, 7 sacks, 5 forced fumbles). Pittsburgh that season lost Alan Faneca and got a fifth-round compensatory pick.

We did not get a 7th rounder for Calvin Pace. That year we signed just as many free agents as we lost, which means a comp pick no higher then a 7th round pick. The basic rule of comp picks is

qualifing free agents signed < qualifing free agents lost = comp picks base on salaries and playing time.

qualifiing free agents signed > qualifing free agents lost = no comp picks and it doesnt matter what contract values were, you can have a 2 to 1 salary ratio in your favor and it still wouldnt matter.

qualifing free agents signed = qualifing free agents lost = possibility of a 7th round comp pick, but it isnt a cerntianty.

 

[DeAnna]

I think you are devaluing Q a little bit. He is a 3X pro bowler and still has more upside than Marshall IMO. Marshall is in the same situation wanting a bigger contract but is more of a liability off the field than Q.

I heard on the radio that the Broncos want a 1st and a 3rd round pick for Marshall

 

[football karma]

just to throw another variable in the mix:

Bob Kemp reported that a AFC scout was quoted as saying that the most attractive WR potentially available this offseason is.......................................

Steve Breaston.



If trading Q for a 3rd ensures that Breaston gets signed to a long term deal --- then i will be happy with a 3rd

 

[WildBB]

I heard on the radio that the Broncos want a 1st and a 3rd round pick for Marshall

He's a better reciever than Roy Williams and that's what Det. fleeced from Dal. and J. Jones. But he's a head case like TO somewhat.

 

[WildBB]

just to throw another variable in the mix:

Bob Kemp reported that a AFC scout was quoted as saying that the most attractive WR potentially available this offseason is.......................................

Steve Breaston.



If trading Q for a 3rd ensures that Breaston gets signed to a long term deal --- then i will be happy with a 3rd

He's restricted, no one will give up a 1st (or more) to sign him.

 

[DoTheDew]

Good thing I just didnt reply to the comp idea before reading other posts because I would have duplicated this.

Again to count on a comp pick is foolish, considering you dont know of Boldin comes out next season injury free. Who knows if any team even wants to give him a contract worthy of a 3rd round comp pick. Who knows if we dont sign more free agents then we loss thus it doesnt even matter what the contracts are anymore. Remember if you sign more players then you loss you dont get a comp pick no matter what.

Come on you can't tell me if Boldin hurts his value enough that he won't be worth a high comp pick that he probably won't just resign with us for a reasonable contract? If the injury or drop-off in production happens, Boldin will probably no longer think he will be better off elsewhere. Boldin doesn't seem like a blind ego-maniac ala T.O.

If we don't get a comp pick for Boldin it means we either extended him, traded him, or we were aggressive in F.A. that year.

 

[cardpa]

just to throw another variable in the mix:

Bob Kemp reported that a AFC scout was quoted as saying that the most attractive WR potentially available this offseason is.......................................

Steve Breaston.



If trading Q for a 3rd ensures that Breaston gets signed to a long term deal --- then i will be happy with a 3rd

I totally agree

 

[BigDavis75]

I heard on the radio that the Broncos want a 1st and a 3rd round pick for Marshall

Marshall is a better player than Boldin though and younger, I would be surprised if they got that though.

 

[TJ]

just to throw another variable in the mix:

Bob Kemp reported that a AFC scout was quoted as saying that the most attractive WR potentially available this offseason is.......................................

Steve Breaston.



If trading Q for a 3rd ensures that Breaston gets signed to a long term deal --- then i will be happy with a 3rd

The Q and Breaston situations are mutually exclusive

Breaston is an RFA. He will probably be given a high tender to be protected from someone making an offer. Breaston is good, but no one in their right mind would give us a 1st for him.

Q is a separate deal overall which entails either re-signing him or trading him.

Either way, Breaston will still be on this team.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I wouldnt say it's "ridiculous" Q has had significant production in this league, even with two other 1000+ yard receivers with one being a future HoFer and played in some crappy offensive schemes.

Further, Q has had success with sub par QBs. Look at his rookie year with Jeff Blake and McCown. Pro Bowl. Year with Leinart as a rookie. Pro Bowl. The accolades speak for themselves.

Now what he does not have that Marshall does is the capability to stay healthy and youth. But put Q as the focal point of the offense and I see their production being similar. Q is good at finding the end zone, has soft hands and turns into a running back when he catches the ball and trucks people over.

You can make an argument for both, but I personally like Qs style of play. It is so much different than anyone in the league.

Again, you seem to forget that you asserted that Boldin has more upside than Marshall. It's a ridiculous opinion, Marshall is younger, better, and healthier. Those seem to be the qualifications for "upside".

In another post you use Roy Williams as an example, which is even more ridiculous. There is no chance in hell we get near a 1st and 3rd. I'd be very happy with a 2nd, but expect a 3rd. Anquan isn't as effective as he used to be, and will want a large contract. Oh, on top of that he's constantly injured and I doubt that improving as time goes on.

 

[WildBB]

Oh, on top of that he's constantly injured and I doubt that improving as time goes on.

Yeah, especially if his QB continues to lay the best recievers out to dry.

 

[TJ]

Again, you seem to forget that you asserted that Boldin has more upside than Marshall. It's a ridiculous opinion, Marshall is younger, better, and healthier. Those seem to be the qualifications for "upside".

In another post you use Roy Williams as an example, which is even more ridiculous. There is no chance in hell we get near a 1st and 3rd. I'd be very happy with a 2nd, but expect a 3rd. Anquan isn't as effective as he used to be, and will want a large contract. Oh, on top of that he's constantly injured and I doubt that improving as time goes on.

Read the correspondence before. It was response to someone who said that Moss was traded for a 4th and that should be the market for Q. I never once implied that we could get that

How do you see Q as less effective? And don't tell me production because of the over saturation of receivers on this team. It's hard to gauge Marshall v. Boldin because Marshall is the Bronco's offense. The opinion on Q has changed because Fitzgerald has played out of his mind. Put Marshall in the same situation with Fitz and Marshall would be a mirage.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

And the Cowboys got Roy Williams for a 1st 3rd and 6th round pick.

Plus, when you talk about Raider signinings, trades, drafts, you have to consider the team and the owner before making a conclusion. Old Al works differently than anyone else in the league

Ok, so considering the owner, when was the last time the Cardinals ownership got fair value when deciding to let a player walk or trade him? I can't remember the time this board sang the praises of the ownership, because they traded a player, and got something in return, instead of letting the player walk. This ownership's previous MO would leave me to believe they will let Q play out his contract and then walk, for no compensation, in 2011.

 

[CardLogic]

Plus, when you talk about Raider signinings, trades, drafts, you have to consider the team and the owner before making a conclusion. Old Al works differently than anyone else in the league

So let's get Old Al on the line and tell him that Boldin will make Jamar Russell into a top 3 star QB next season!!!

That ought to get us a Herschel Walker type trade!

 

[CardLogic]

Put Marshall in the same situation with Fitz and expect a Steve Breaston type season.

Ftfy!

 

[Duckjake]

There is no question Q has leveled off in relation to his production. I understand the "There are only so many bass to go around", but his YPC declining and only playing 12, 12, and 15 games in the last three years is a bad trend that cannot be ignored. To say we only miss out on positives without acknowledging there are some negatives to this situation is not fair. I dont agree with TJ's opinion, but I can see validity in it.

I also think it is dangerous to count on comp picks to make up for not trading him this year. Comp picks are base don salary and playing time, not stats (I think?!?!?). Not to mention without knowing how/if a new CBA in 2011 looks, the comp. pick method may not even exist in 2011.

I don't get this. Using those parameters it was Fitzgerald whose production dropped off. Q had more ypc and only 68 fewer yards than Fitz and Fitz didn't go over 50 yards receiving in 5 of the last 6 regular season games of 2009.

Breaston was way off as well with 22 fewer catches and almost 400 fewer yards than 2008.

To me Boldin allows the Cards to keep guys like Becht and Spach on the roster by filling the role at times of a receiving TE.

Finally I have two questions about RFA's. Are the tenders required before free agency starts and won't the tenders essentially establish the trade value of those players? Should be a very interesting year for those in the front offices of NFL teams.