Boldin trade talk to Dolphins

[kerouac9]

I don't get this. Using those parameters it was Fitzgerald whose production dropped off. Q had more ypc and only 68 fewer yards than Fitz and Fitz didn't go over 50 yards receiving in 5 of the last 6 regular season games of 2009.

Breaston was way off as well with 22 fewer catches and almost 400 fewer yards than 2008.

To me Boldin allows the Cards to keep guys like Becht and Spach on the roster by filling the role at times of a receiving TE.

Finally I have two questions about RFA's. Are the tenders required before free agency starts and won't the tenders essentially establish the trade value of those players? Should be a very interesting year for those in the front offices of NFL teams.

Yeah, but Fitz had 13 TDs while demanding the attention of opposing coordinators and safties all season long. He also didn't fumble three times.

There's no question that the passing game suffered from a pure yardage standpoint as the running game became more efficient, but that's what people have been saying for years would happen. That's the explanation for why the Cards shouldn't pay Q $7 million per year.

I agree with you about what Anquan is at this point in his career: A very good slot WR. I think that if you can get a 3rd round pick for your slot WR when you have a solid replacement in place (Doucet), that's something that you ought to jump on.

As I remember from last year, RFA tenders have to be in before March 1. I don't know if it really establishes the trade market for these guys any more than a Franchise player's trade value begins at two firsts. But I think that if teams are giving out high tenders to players, that's where the salary discussion on those guys' next contracts are going to begin.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Buster Davis

JTS

Exactly. All these people worrying about losing Boldin next year and getting nothing are forgetting about that situation.

Unless it is a high 2nd round pick, or a proven pass rusher it would be a huge risk in moving Boldin.

I would take Boldin and another year of service over any of that hoopla.

JMHO.

 

[CardinalChris]

Exactly. All these people worrying about losing Boldin next year and getting nothing are forgetting about that situation.

Unless it is a high 2nd round pick, or a proven pass rusher it would be a huge risk in moving Boldin.

I would take Boldin and another year of service over any of that hoopla.

JMHO.

Nobody claimed it was a guarantee the pick turns into a player. Want us to go down the list of 3rd rounders we have on the team that excel? We have just as much of a chance to draft one of those as we do at Buster Davis.

 

[Pariah]

Haven't read the thread beyond page one, so forgive me if I'm overly repetitive.

I think the Cardinals ought to think long and hard about taking a third for Boldin. Obviously, at this point in the offseason that's not a firm offer, so there's room for negotiation...but even if the offer doesn't move, a third round pick is pretty valuable--especially the way the Whisenhunt regime has been drafting.

Q is a VERY good WR, but I think that kind of player is going to be less valuable to the Cards than it was in the recent past. Plus, Q is likely going to walk after next season anyways, why not get what you can for him?

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm sorry but a 3rd rounder does nothing for me. You are trading someone who is cheap and can still put up numbers for a complete unknown that at best might produce 2-3 years down the road.

Boldin is not a head case. Boldin is not bankrupting the Cardinals. There is no need to move him.

When he becomes a free agent and goes elsewhere for the big bucks, fine. We then have the opertunity to land a Comp Pick in the draft for him that could be as high as a 3rd rounder.

 

[CardinalChris]

I'm sorry but a 3rd rounder does nothing for me. You are trading someone who is cheap and can still put up numbers for a complete unknown that at best might produce 2-3 years down the road.

Boldin is not a head case. Boldin is not bankrupting the Cardinals. There is no need to move him.

When he becomes a free agent and goes elsewhere for the big bucks, fine. We then have the opertunity to land a Comp Pick in the draft for him that could be as high as a 3rd rounder.

What comp pick? Where is this comp pick coming from? If you don't trade him, just assume he walks without any value in return other than his play in 2010.

 

[MadCardDisease]

What comp pick? Where is this comp pick coming from?

Compensatory picks
In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.

If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft (These are known as "supplemental compensatory selections").

Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What comp pick? Where is this comp pick coming from? If you don't trade him, just assume he walks without any value in return other than his play in 2010.

That he's likely to turn into a 3rd round comp pick has been explained in other threads. Arguing for some that there is little reason to make a trade at this point for a third round pick.

Where is it written in stone that Q has a third round value in a trade?

Moss was had for a 4th - Williams for a first and more. The only rhyme and reason of it all is that a player is worth whatever someone is willing to pay.

With Welker gone for awhile, would NE give a 2 for Q? Would Miami give a 2 given there needs a W/O?

I don't know, but with 3 second rounders it may be a small price to pay for NE, as an example.

If I was Graves, I'd simply take the calls, listen to the pitches... and seriously consider the team that offers a second. Other than that, I keep Q, and live with the consequences.

Anyway... the world is ending in 2012, so I'm told, so can't see why anyone is worried about this...

PS: Nothing prevents the Cards from tagging Q after 2010.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, but Fitz had 13 TDs while demanding the attention of opposing coordinators and safties all season long. He also didn't fumble three times.

There's no question that the passing game suffered from a pure yardage standpoint as the running game became more efficient, but that's what people have been saying for years would happen. That's the explanation for why the Cards shouldn't pay Q $7 million per year.

I agree with you about what Anquan is at this point in his career: A very good slot WR. I think that if you can get a 3rd round pick for your slot WR when you have a solid replacement in place (Doucet), that's something that you ought to jump on.

As I remember from last year, RFA tenders have to be in before March 1. I don't know if it really establishes the trade market for these guys any more than a Franchise player's trade value begins at two firsts. But I think that if teams are giving out high tenders to players, that's where the salary discussion on those guys' next contracts are going to begin.

I guess it really doesn't make that much difference from prior years. The players team is just saying we'll take a 1st&3rd or a 2nd or whatever for this guy if you want him by their tender offer to that player.

 

[joeshmo]

That he's highly unlikely to turn into a 3rd round comp pick has been explained in other threads.

Fixed it for you.

See page 4 of this thread.

Way to many things have to happen for us to even get a 7th round comp pick let alone a 3rd.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, but Fitz had 13 TDs while demanding the attention of opposing coordinators and safties all season long.

That reminded me of the all-time greatest "scoring only league" WR, Daryl Turner, who used to play for Seattle. Had 101 career receptions and 36 of them were for TDs. Unreal numbers.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Anyway... the world is ending in 2012, so I'm told, so can't see why anyone is worried about this...

That can't happen until we go to the Super Bowl and win.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Fixed it for you.

See page 4 of this thread.

Way to many things have to happen for us to even get a 7th round comp pick let alone a 3rd.

I would much rather keep Boldin one more year and take my chances on landing a comp pick than trade him away for a 3rd rounder this year.

 

[lobo]

Moss was had for a 4th - Williams for a first and more. The only rhyme and reason of it all is that a player is worth whatever someone is willing to pay.



Very wise!!!!

 

[az jam]

Yeah, but Fitz had 13 TDs while demanding the attention of opposing coordinators and safties all season long. He also didn't fumble three times.

There's no question that the passing game suffered from a pure yardage standpoint as the running game became more efficient, but that's what people have been saying for years would happen. That's the explanation for why the Cards shouldn't pay Q $7 million per year.

I agree with you about what Anquan is at this point in his career: A very good slot WR. I think that if you can get a 3rd round pick for your slot WR when you have a solid replacement in place (Doucet), that's something that you ought to jump on.

As I remember from last year, RFA tenders have to be in before March 1. I don't know if it really establishes the trade market for these guys any more than a Franchise player's trade value begins at two firsts. But I think that if teams are giving out high tenders to players, that's where the salary discussion on those guys' next contracts are going to begin.

I responded early in this thread saying no way should we take a third round pick for Boldin. However after following all the responses the past several days I have soften my stand and realize that perhaps that is the best we can and should take versus having him walk away for nothing after another year. We really don't know what will happen when the free agent and trade season starts next month. We can hope for better and who knows perhaps the Kansas City Chiefs with two 2nd round picks and Todd Haley as the HC would give us one of them. However, I'm now going along with the consensus of the board that its time to move Boldin and try to get something reasonable for him. If that is only a third round pick so be it!!

 

[CardinalChris]

Compensatory picks
In addition to the 32 picks in each round, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as "compensatory picks," are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. So, for example, a team that lost a linebacker who signed for $2.5 million per year in free agency might get a sixth-round compensatory pick, while a team that lost a wide receiver who signed for $5 million per year might receive a fourth-round pick.

If fewer than 32 such picks are awarded, the remaining picks are awarded in the order in which teams would pick in a hypothetical eighth round of the draft (These are known as "supplemental compensatory selections").

Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.

I understand what compensatory pick are - I just think it isn't as likely as people on this board believe if Q were to walk. And that still doesn't get past the fact that we have NO idea what the CBA would look like, if even passed, for 2011 in regards to Comp picks. It would be foolish to validate hanging on to Q because of the possibility of a comp pick.

 

[CardinalChris]

PS: Nothing prevents the Cards from tagging Q after 2010.

Value is literally what somebody will pay for him. And AZ will use a similar equation to determine if he is worth a "X round" pick.

Boldin's value to the team - his replacement's value to the team < the compensation received.

But there is something that could keep Q from being tagged in 2010. His salary would be way too much IMO (you play a player for what he will do, not what he has done in the past). Again, there is no collective bargaining agreement for 2011 to be able to tag him. Odds are if a new CBA is adopted there will be some tag features for teams, but we can't say for sure.

 

[Shane]

I responded early in this thread saying no way should we take a third round pick for Boldin. However after following all the responses the past several days I have soften my stand and realize that perhaps that is the best we can and should take versus having him walk away for nothing after another year. We really don't know what will happen when the free agent and trade season starts next month. We can hope for better and who knows perhaps the Kansas City Chiefs with two 2nd round picks and Todd Haley as the HC would give us one of them. However, I'm now going along with the consensus of the board that its time to move Boldin and try to get something reasonable for him. If that is only a third round pick so be it!!

First off nobody here has anywhere near a clue what we will get for Q or what the market will demand no matter how much kerouac tries to pimp the "we should jump at a 3rd" party line.

K9 keeps trying to bring up Marshall as a base. Yet nobody here has said that Q will be traded for more than Marshall will. Doesn't mean Marshall will be traded at all either. He is a 1st class head case and many teams wont want to take the chance on him no matter what.

The rules this off season change the whole demeanor of what the market will bear IMO. To many teams are going to be limited in ways that they can try and improve their teams and trades may be the only way to do that thus jumping up asking prices a bit. If we are offered a 3rd rightnow for Q and take it we are silly. We need to wait it out and see how the off season progresses. If we havent been offered more come draft time then maybe you jump at the 3rd. But no way before.

Anytime a guy like Jerry Jones will trade a 1st a 3rd and a 6th for a guy like Roy Williams who could never carry Q's jock you just never know. That was in a market that may not bear higher offerings as well.

 

[WildBB]

There's no question that the passing game suffered from a pure yardage standpoint as the running game became more efficient, but that's what people have been saying for years would happen. That's the explanation for why the Cards shouldn't pay Q $7 million per year.

I agree with you about what Anquan is at this point in his career: A very good slot WR. I think that if you can get a 3rd round pick for your slot WR when you have a solid replacement in place (Doucet), that's something that you ought to jump on.

No, they shouldn't pay Anquan that much. If he is willing to take less then that, something more reasonable in the 5M per range, then that's something we should definately consider, IMO.

With the 3rd round choices being bantered about, I would look into TB's choice at the top of the 3rd round. It's allmost a late 2nd round pick. If Anquan is not willing to adjust his demands and swallow a little pride then I'd look into that trade further. Maybe a 3rd this year and 4/5 next since we've had good fortune with those.

As for Duece being solid in the slot, I'd need to see him perform over an entire season before I proclaim him ready. He had a couple nice games in the playoffs, so we'll see if he's indeen tough/durable enough to handle that. Remember he has his own issues about staying on the field at times.

 

[az jam]

First off nobody here has anywhere near a clue what we will get for Q or what the market will demand no matter how much kerouac tries to pimp the "we should jump at a 3rd" party line.

K9 keeps trying to bring up Marshall as a base. Yet nobody here has said that Q will be traded for more than Marshall will. Doesn't mean Marshall will be traded at all either. He is a 1st class head case and many teams wont want to take the chance on him no matter what.

The rules this off season change the whole demeanor of what the market will bear IMO. To many teams are going to be limited in ways that they can try and improve their teams and trades may be the only way to do that thus jumping up asking prices a bit. If we are offered a 3rd rightnow for Q and take it we are silly. We need to wait it out and see how the off season progresses. If we havent been offered more come draft time then maybe you jump at the 3rd. But no way before.

Anytime a guy like Jerry Jones will trade a first a 3rd and a 6th for a guy like Roy Williams who could never carry Q's jock you just never know. That was in a market that may not bear higher offerings as well.

Totally agree with your rationale. I'm not being wishy washy just coming to the conclusion that we should get as much as we can for Boldin but realize it may not be as much as I really hoped for.

 

[WildBB]

We need to wait it out and see how the off season progresses. If we havent been offered more come draft time then maybe you jump at the 3rd. But no way before.

True that.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It would be foolish to validate hanging on to Q because of the possibility of a comp pick.

Oh I agree that it would be foolish to hang onto Q solely because of the possibility of a comp pick.

However I think it is even more foolish to trade a 1000 yard WR for a measly 3rd round pick. I want to hang onto Q for another 1000 yards. If we get nothing for him when he becomes a UFA so be it. If we do end up getting a comp pick then that is just a bonus!

 

[MadCardDisease]

Look at some of the 3rd rounders the Cardinals have drafted over the last 5 years:

Rashad Johnson
Early Doucet
Buster Davis
Leonard Pope
Eric Green
Darryl Blackstock


Only Doucet has shown a glimmer of hope and that was only over a couple of games. Give me another 1000+ yards from Boldin for one more year over all of those guys combined.

 

[Matt L]

As for Duece being solid in the slot...

When I first read that I thought you were speaking about Duece Latui...

 

[kerouac9]

Oh I agree that it would be foolish to hang onto Q solely because of the possibility of a comp pick.

However I think it is even more foolish to trade a 1000 yard WR for a measly 3rd round pick. I want to hang onto Q for another 1000 yards. If we get nothing for him when he becomes a UFA so be it. If we do end up getting a comp pick then that is just a bonus!

23 palyers posted 1000 yard seasons in 2009. Anquan Boldin had the lowest YPC of any of them except Steve Smith (playing with Jake Delhomme) and Wes Welker. Derrick Mason had more yards than Anquan Boldin did last year.

The problem with keeping Q is also structural. In order for Q to be Q, you have to consistently "feed the beast" and accept 6-yard gains, 4 yard gains, in the hope that he'll eventually spring a 20- or 35-yard gain. That's not happening as often now as it used to.

With Matt Leinart taking over, the passing game is going to take more of a vertical aspect, which will mean lower completion percentages, but also higher yardages. Anquan Boldin's routes subbing in for the running game aren't as important now that the Cards actually have a running game.