Butler Denied Permission, Horton Expected to be Next DC

[Hypothesis]

I didn't really want Greene or Butler either. The one positive thing that both of them possess is that they are good with linebackers and the number one thing in a 3-4 defense is the play of the linebackers. And yes I want a DC that has alot of experience as a DC and has made a name for himself. I don't think that is too much to ask for on the NFL level.

Name available DC's that are big name DC's that we could have got. Rob Ryan? Sorry, it was very unlikely he would have come back to the desert. Wade Phillips? He pretty much made a Beeline straight to Houston without consideration for any team. Capers? Already the DC in GB and under contract. Manusky? Interviewed here but said his heart was in San Diego.

Apparently in your world great, "named" DC aren't made, they don't have to earn their stripes, they just manifest already proven and ready to coach.

If anybody is qualified to implement Dick Lebeau's system, it's Ray Horton. Dude has spent 18 years either playing in Dick's zone blitz scheme or coaching it. He is well trusted by coaches and management, well liked and respected by players, well versed in the system and is very well spoken. He has an understanding of what this defense is about and what it'll take to build it.

As for Ray Horton's defensive backfield performing poorly...remember, the Steeler's only gave up 214 yards per game through the air all season long and a lot of the success against them was garbage time.

Also, you might want to recall, that Dick Lebeau himself started out as a special teams coach before moving on to become a DB coach. Every coach starts somewhere.

 

[joeshmo]

There were a bunch of guys out there over the last few months that we could have made a push to sign and would have gotten one if the money was right.

Just to name one guy and there are many others. Dom Capers was a DC then a HC then a DC again. I don't want some bargain basement guy that has never done the job on any level. If he had at least been a DC for a major college team for five years and was very successful that would be something to look back on. I don't want just anybody to run our defense. I want somebody with a proven track record that knows what he is doing. I can't make it any plainer than that.

So you would rather have a DC that has been calling plays against college spread offenses his whole career instead?

As for Capers he wasnt much of anything for like 10 years until he got back to the Packers with the best FO in football. Last good D was in 1999. Texans and Dolphins were probably thinking the same thing as you and it did not work. There is a reason why the guy hadnt held a job longer then 3 years in the NFL. Just goes to show Re-treads can bomb or succeed just as easily as a newbie.

 

[Snakester]

Hey Gary, how many of them are available? Now how many have coached a 3-4? Now how many haven't said, "I'm not going to coach this year?"

You have a point, but there were alot over the last two months that were available and even the guys that said they were not going to coach this year some of them if not all off them would have said yes if the money was right. I'm not going to look up every coach to prove a point. The first coach that comes to mind is Wade Phillips. We could have had him, but we didn't even try. I don't remember any reports about us offering him anything.

 

[Dayman]

Admittedly, I'm a little disappointed about this news. Horton might turn into a fine DC, but two weeks ago, we were debating the possibility of Lebeau (no matter how unrealistic he might have been). Yesterday, Urban said Butler was Whis' first choice. Getting excited about a guy who appears to be the third option isn't easy. Especially after the questionable success of former Steelers' players/coaches who have come here recently. I had also started to put my vote toward Darren Perry, who has done an amazing job with the Packers' secondary.

Still, I'll reserve judgment until I see what the guy can do. He's obviously a Lebeau favorite, and he seems well respected as both a former player and a coach. He'll have his work cut out for him with this declining defense, and I sincerely hope we get someone in here who can coach up the LBs. But I definitely think he can succeed here. Who knows. Maybe he'll turn Rhodes into the next Polamalu.

The one thing I know for sure is that I never want to hear Keith Butler's name associated with the Cards again. I'm sick of getting turned down by that guy.

 

[Hypothesis]

You have a point, but there were alot over the last two months that were available and even the guys that said they were not going to coach this year some of them if not all off them would have said yes if the money was right. I'm not going to look up every coach to prove a point. The first coach that comes to mind is Wade Phillips. We could have had him, but we didn't even try. I don't remember any reports about us offering him anything.

Wade Phillips was hired by the Texans before Davis was even fired.

 

[Rats]

Pitts Db were not that good. There DL and blitzing the Qb helped them tremendously. We had better find an out right stud at getting to the Qb or we will be exposed again in the secondary. I guess Horton was so great at being a DB coach that the Steelers allowed his contract to expire and seek employment elsewhere. Seems that he would have been offered an extension if his DB were what made that Defense. LB LB LB made that D and good drafts in Hampton, Hood upfront the last 5 or 6 years. Horton is nothing special. Fail IMO

 

[TopGun]

You have a point, but there were alot over the last two months that were available and even the guys that said they were not going to coach this year some of them if not all off them would have said yes if the money was right. I'm not going to look up every coach to prove a point. The first coach that comes to mind is Wade Phillips. We could have had him, but we didn't even try. I don't remember any reports about us offering him anything.

I honestly don't think we would have had a chance getting Phillips as our DC..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5987163

 

[tnmike]

Ray Horton is going to have a lot of credibility in the locker room where every player is going to know that he was the second choice (at least).

Excellent planning, Cards.

At some point, the "In Whis We Trust" sentiment on this board is going to have to begin to turn. There were a lot of "I'm sure that Whis has a wink-wink-nudge-nudge understanding with his BFF Butler on this situation, and that's why they're being so patient."

I guess using your reasoning they just shouldn't have a DC at all huh?

 

[Brian]

If ANYTHING good comes of this it might be that Horton gets DRC to focus and to stop using ADUB incorrectly.

 

[Snakester]

So you would rather have a DC that has been calling plays against college spread offenses his whole career instead?

As for Capers he wasnt much of anything for like 10 years until he got back to the Packers with the best FO in football. Last good D was in 1999. Texans and Dolphins were probably thinking the same thing as you and it did not work. There is a reason why the guy hadnt held a job longer then 3 years in the NFL. Just goes to show Re-treads can bomb or succeed just as easily as a newbie.

I guess there is no making a point with you. How about this- I want somebody that knows what they are doing and I don't believe Horton knows what he is doing. I would not hire a guy as a Captain of an aircraft carrier that had only been a deck hand on a tugboat. Thats my last best analogy that I can think of. The only other thing to say is let the guy bomb out on his own.

 

[Longcolts]

I guess there is no making a point with you. How about this- I want somebody that knows what they are doing and I don't believe Horton knows what he is doing. I would not hire a guy as a Captain of an aircraft carrier that had only been a deck hand on a tugboat. Thats my last best analogy that I can think of. The only other thing to say is let the guy bomb out on his own.

To this I would say that the next promotional step for a Defensive Line, Linebacker, DB coach is Defensive Coordinator. An Aircraft Carrier Commander is a Captain, and that would be next step for a Commander to make. The proper analogy would be that Horton is a commander and is now being promoted to be a Captain.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Thats my last best analogy that I can think of.

Ha, really?

 

[Shane]

and I don't believe Horton knows what he is doing.

You have nothing to base this off of or back it up with other than your anger that they didn't hire a"name" guy. Your just being ignorant.

 

[Rats]

If ANYTHING good comes of this it might be that Horton gets DRC to focus and to stop using ADUB incorrectly.

If these things happen I will be singing his praises...along with keeping Dockett away from twitter

 

[vinnymac]

The Cardinals just have to go back to the drawling board on this. The Cardinals move was to hold out for Butler and that bomb. Now they have to find a replacement. It looks like they are grabbing for straws right now. I can sense the panic button has been hit. We will see who they hire.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Cardinals figure out the QB situation, maybe they go CB in the draft at #5. I like the ability of being able to switch to one-on-one coverage on different defensive schemes.

 

[Shane]

It looks like they are grabbing for straws right now. I can sense the panic button has been hit. We will see who they hire.

Where do you guys get this crap from?

 

[Linderbee]

I honestly don't think we would have had a chance getting Phillips as our DC..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5987163

Dude. Your avatar has GOT to go.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Second best, maybe even third if Lebeau would have entertained an offer. We simply waited to long for who we wanted and got stuck with who was left. I do not expect much improvement on that side of the ball and will be figuring on us involved in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes next Draft season. Pathetic by any measureing stick IMO. Should never have locked on to Butler and looked more seriously at the available candidates that are now gone. We all know Horton was no ones first choice as a DC.

i will gladly throw this entire season away if it means we land luck.

my question is, if whiz was really gunning for butler, why didn't he know that pitt was going to turn him down? i'm certain someone from that FO has ties to whiz and could have let him know, "hey buddy, don't get your hopes up on making a run at butler . . . ain't happening."

 

[Brian]

Well, I just cruised through every Steeler message board I could find. Noticed two things:

Everyone is ecstatic that Butler is staying, and no one gives a crap that Horton is leaving. Hell, some of them are even laughing at us and thanking Whis for taking him away.

Sounds awesome.

 

[TopGun]

Dude. Your avatar has GOT to go.

LMAO Looks okay to me!!

 

[splitsecond]

First of all, there is nothing official yet. There could be snags...salary-wise (the Cowboys could be offering more money if they are offering the Asst. HC position), and staff-wise (autonomy to hire defensive assistants, etc.).

The things is...with LeBeau's status up in the air, it didn't seem very feasible that the Steelers would make Keith Butler available at this time...Butler was paid handsomely by the Rooneys because he clearly is the DC in waiting.

However, if Horton is hired as DC we get a true Dick LeBeau disciple and a coach who will bring the Steelers' system of 34 defense to Arizona. We also get a coach who knows how to maximize the effectiveness of his safeties...which is a real plus for the Wilson/Rhodes/Johnson trio...especially with regard to Wilson.

We also get a coach who has done his homework on the Cardinals and, like Kerry Rhodes, feels we are a couple of pieces away from being a very good defense. You have to like the optimism there.

Horton should command the respect of the players...and they should be all ears when it comes to learning the Steeler 34 zone blitz packages...

This defense should be much tougher and should tackle with much more authority.

The other thing is there may be a chance he could bring Ike Taylor (6-2, 195, 9) with him...and that would be a very nice addition indeed.

So there are plenty of plusses here...especially that we get a true 34 coach who has learned the defense from the best in the business...and as for calling the defenses and the blitzes, it's likely so ingrained in him by now in terms of feeding off of LeBeau's calls that the transition may be automatic.

I just hope the Cardinals give him the autonomy to hire the right defensive assistants...ones that he feels comfortable with and ones that he knows understands what's exepected from every player in the system.

Great post. I think a lot of the complaints on Horton are because 1) he isn't Butler (but this may signal LeBeau is on his way out, or MAY be so the steelers are protecting themselves), and 2) the piss-poor performance by the Steelers secondary in the Superbowl.

As two the second point, the steelers CB's are not great. Apparently everyone has forgotten what Bryant McFadden is like. Secondly, Aaron Rodgers is a special QB, Kurt Warner special. If he is having an on game, he is going to shred most defenses, it is plain and simple.

I for one like this hire, and will save the sour grapes for next offseason.

 

[Rats]

i will gladly throw this entire season away if it means we land luck.

my question is, if whiz was really gunning for butler, why didn't he know that pitt was going to turn him down? i'm certain someone from that FO has ties to whiz and could have let him know, "hey buddy, don't get your hopes up on making a run at butler . . . ain't happening."

On Luck I am right there with you. Tank it and get him. Maybe Lebeau is going to call it a day and retire? Steelers deny permission on this basis and we have to scramble and end up with Horton or someone else because they are available(why is Pitts dumping him and letting his contract expire?). It just seems as if it was played to make the Cards look incompetent. They may just be.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well, I just cruised through every Steeler message board I could find. Noticed two things:

Everyone is ecstatic that Butler is staying, and no one gives a crap that Horton is leaving. Hell, some of them are even laughing at us and thanking Whis for taking him away.

Sounds awesome.

The Steeler fans probably feel this way because Aaron Rogers picked them apart in the SB and they want someone to blame.

 

[Matt L]

a couple of things

1. I may be wrong, but it seems that most assistant coach's contracts expire and then are resigned after their contracts expire. I can't remember the last time one of our assistant coach's contract was renewed in the middle of a season.

2. I only "name" assistant coach that was brought in that I can think of was Russ Grimm. Thinking through the previous coordinators, I can't think of one who was really ever considered a "name"