Butler Denied Permission, Horton Expected to be Next DC

[joeshmo]

http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/35074380845285377#

This appears to be all for not, as Jason La Canfora is reporting that Horton is taking a job with Dallas.

Read more of his tweets. That one is from a hour ago and he has already recanted.

 

[Bert]

What I'm wondering is how it would be Horton so quickly? Would they even have had a chance to interview him yet? Also what about the candidate they asked to speak to from the Packers?

Exactly. I dont want to freak out prematurely but this is like... I dont know how else to explain it other than we look like we are the Steelers bitch right now.

Tomlin: Nah you cant have that guy, but you can have this guy.
CKW: Ok sweet, thanks Mike, I'll take whomever I can get from your glorious coaching staff. Thank you sooo much!

I mean after the Steelers denied us Butler, Whis should have told them to go piss up a rope. Just makes no sense to me CKW's ENDLESS infatuation with all things Steelers.

3rd option from the Steelers staff > EVERYONE else???

 

[desertdawg]

Actually we have an OC. Miller is being groomed the same way Whiz groomed Haley.

Not funny! I was drinking soda when I read this...spat it out laughing and had to go change pants.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So trying hard and failing is better than succeeding to a lesser extent? I'm sure that Max Hall will be happy that's your position.

The Cards are now stuck with Ray Horton (apparently), who will have little credibility in the locker room because he's clearly not the coaching staff's first choice (or even perhaps second). Horton will be on a short leash for whenever Keith Butler actually becomes available again (as Bill Davis was).

Having a plan and failing to execute it? Isn't that why we went through three quarterbacks this season?

You may want to qualify some of your comments.

I don't know how much "credibility" is involved here, and neither do you.

 

[earthsci]

Is it really that hard to understand why Whiz would want a Defensive Coach who had worked with Dick LeBeau for a few years? Really?

 

[JerkFace]

Exactly. I dont want to freak out prematurely but this is like... I dont know how else to explain it other than we look like we are the Steelers bitch right now.

Tomlin: Nah you cant have that guy, but you can have this guy.
CKW: Ok sweet, thanks Mike, I'll take whomever I can get from your glorious coaching staff. Thank you sooo much!

Horton's contract was up so they couldn't deny permission. He and Butler were in completely different situations. We have no way of knowing if the Steelers would of denied Horton as well if he was under contract.

 

[Snakester]

Oh, and why should we go after the big name DC? They obviously have sucked at some point to even be available.

Yea, thats why most of them became head coaches and fall back to being DC's when they lose there jobs as head coaches like Dom Capers and Wade Phillips. But hey, if you want just any tom, dick or harry as our next DC that is supposed to lead us back to the Superbowl and maybe win it then by all means why not hire the secretary out of Bidwills office for the job. She's never been a DC before so why shouldn't she be the best ever!

 

[Shzm13]

Is it really that hard to understand why Whiz would want a Defensive Coach who had worked with Dick LeBeau for a few years? Really?

Then go after the position coach who's produced productive players. Pitts DBs outside of Troy are garbage.The DLine coach is available. Why not go after him?

Any word on which of GB's guys we're interviewing? I'd much rather have Perry than Horton.

 

[Bert]

Horton's contract was up so they couldn't deny permission. He and Butler were in completely different situations. We have no way of knowing if the Steelers would of denied Horton as well if he was under contract.

Thats true like I said I'm trying not to get ahead of myself on this one. I dont know anything about Horton but from the outside it kinda looks like we're saying "we'll take whatever we can get from Pittsburgh."

Oh well he cant suck anymore than Bill Davis (hopefully)

 

[earthsci]

Yea, thats why most of them became head coaches and fall back to being DC's when they lose there jobs as head coaches like Dom Capers and Wade Phillips.

Hey Gary, how many of them are available? Now how many have coached a 3-4? Now how many haven't said, "I'm not going to coach this year?"

 

[Mitch]

First of all, there is nothing official yet. There could be snags...salary-wise (the Cowboys could be offering more money if they are offering the Asst. HC position), and staff-wise (autonomy to hire defensive assistants, etc.).

The things is...with LeBeau's status up in the air, it didn't seem very feasible that the Steelers would make Keith Butler available at this time...Butler was paid handsomely by the Rooneys because he clearly is the DC in waiting.

However, if Horton is hired as DC we get a true Dick LeBeau disciple and a coach who will bring the Steelers' system of 34 defense to Arizona. We also get a coach who knows how to maximize the effectiveness of his safeties...which is a real plus for the Wilson/Rhodes/Johnson trio...especially with regard to Wilson.

We also get a coach who has done his homework on the Cardinals and, like Kerry Rhodes, feels we are a couple of pieces away from being a very good defense. You have to like the optimism there.

Horton should command the respect of the players...and they should be all ears when it comes to learning the Steeler 34 zone blitz packages...

This defense should be much tougher and should tackle with much more authority.

The other thing is there may be a chance he could bring Ike Taylor (6-2, 195, 9) with him...and that would be a very nice addition indeed.

So there are plenty of plusses here...especially that we get a true 34 coach who has learned the defense from the best in the business...and as for calling the defenses and the blitzes, it's likely so ingrained in him by now in terms of feeding off of LeBeau's calls that the transition may be automatic.

I just hope the Cardinals give him the autonomy to hire the right defensive assistants...ones that he feels comfortable with and ones that he knows understands what's exepected from every player in the system.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

Sando's (early) take - http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/32987/on-cards-search-for-defensive-coordinator

"...Hiring Horton would require more projecting because the former NFL cornerback and longtime secondary coach has no experience as an NFL coordinator and Whisenhunt, as an offensive-minded coach, would not be in position to take over defensive play-calling in a pinch."

 

[joeshmo]

Is it really that hard to understand why Whiz would want a Defensive Coach who had worked with Dick LeBeau for a few years? Really?

Not just a few years, much, much more. Lebeau drafted the kid, then brought him with him to the Bengals and Pitt.

Lebeau was the DB coach in Cincy that got him drafted in 83.
Played under him in Cincy from 83 to 88.
Was a DB coach for Lebeau during his second stint with the Bengals as DC/Head coach for 5 years.
Then 7 more years under Lebeau in Pitt.

Years under Lebeau as a player - 6 Years.
Years under Lebeau as a coach - 12 years.

18 total years under the tutelage of the best DC of all time.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

For what it's worth, Troy Polamalu and Ike Taylor both credit Horton for becoming the DB they are today.

 

[PDXChris]

First of all, there is nothing official yet. There could be snags...salary-wise (the Cowboys could be offering more money if they are offering the Asst. HC position), and staff-wise (autonomy to hire defensive assistants, etc.).

The things is...with LeBeau's status up in the air, it didn't seem very feasibe that the Steelers would make Keith Butler available at this time...and Butler was paid handsomely by the Rooneys because he clearly is the DC in waiting.

However, if he is hired as DC in Horton we get a true Dick LeBeau disciple and a coach who will bring the Steelers' system of 34 defense to Arizona. We also get a coach who knows how to maximize the effectiveness of his safeties...which is a real plus for the Wilson/Rhodes/Johnson trio...especially with regard to Wilson.

We also get a coach who has done his homework on the Cardinals and like Kerry Rhodes feels we are a couple of pieces away from being a very good defense. You have to like the optimism there.

Horton should command the respect of the players...and they should be all ears when it comes to learning the Steeler 34 zone blitz packages...

The other thing is there may be a chance he could bring Ike Taylor (6-2, 195, 9) with him...and that would be a very nice addition indeed.

So there are plenty of plusses here...especially that we get a true 34 coach who has learned the defense from the best in the business...and as for calling the defenses and the blitzes, it's so ingrained in him by now in terms of feeding off of LeBeau's calls that the transisition may be somewhat automatic.

I just hope the Cardinals give him the autonomy to hire the right defensive assistants...ones that he feels comfortable with and ones that he knows understands what's exepected from every player in the system.

Your post of the year Mitch. +1000000000000000

 

[joeshmo]

First of all, there is nothing official yet. There could be snags...salary-wise (the Cowboys could be offering more money if they are offering the Asst. HC position), and staff-wise (autonomy to hire defensive assistants, etc.).

The things is...with LeBeau's status up in the air, it didn't seem very feasible that the Steelers would make Keith Butler available at this time...Butler was paid handsomely by the Rooneys because he clearly is the DC in waiting.

However, if Horton is hired as DC we get a true Dick LeBeau disciple and a coach who will bring the Steelers' system of 34 defense to Arizona. We also get a coach who knows how to maximize the effectiveness of his safeties...which is a real plus for the Wilson/Rhodes/Johnson trio...especially with regard to Wilson.

We also get a coach who has done his homework on the Cardinals and, like Kerry Rhodes, feels we are a couple of pieces away from being a very good defense. You have to like the optimism there.

Horton should command the respect of the players...and they should be all ears when it comes to learning the Steeler 34 zone blitz packages...

This defense should be much tougher and should tackle with much more authority.

The other thing is there may be a chance he could bring Ike Taylor (6-2, 195, 9) with him...and that would be a very nice addition indeed.

So there are plenty of plusses here...especially that we get a true 34 coach who has learned the defense from the best in the business...and as for calling the defenses and the blitzes, it's likely so ingrained in him by now in terms of feeding off of LeBeau's calls that the transition may be automatic.

I just hope the Cardinals give him the autonomy to hire the right defensive assistants...ones that he feels comfortable with and ones that he knows understands what's exepected from every player in the system.

Great post. Someone put it all into one post perfectly.

I also completely agree with your last sentence. Wiz did say he wasnt going to make any positional decisions until the new DC was hired. So we will see.

 

[Mulli]

Then go after the position coach who's produced productive players. Pitts DBs outside of Troy are garbage.The DLine coach is available. Why not go after him?

Any word on which of GB's guys we're interviewing? I'd much rather have Perry than Horton.

Taylor and Clark....not garbage

 

[Bert]

First of all, there is nothing official yet. There could be snags...salary-wise (the Cowboys could be offering more money if they are offering the Asst. HC position), and staff-wise (autonomy to hire defensive assistants, etc.).

The things is...with LeBeau's status up in the air, it didn't seem very feasible that the Steelers would make Keith Butler available at this time...Butler was paid handsomely by the Rooneys because he clearly is the DC in waiting.

However, if Horton is hired as DC we get a true Dick LeBeau disciple and a coach who will bring the Steelers' system of 34 defense to Arizona. We also get a coach who knows how to maximize the effectiveness of his safeties...which is a real plus for the Wilson/Rhodes/Johnson trio...especially with regard to Wilson.

We also get a coach who has done his homework on the Cardinals and, like Kerry Rhodes, feels we are a couple of pieces away from being a very good defense. You have to like the optimism there.

Horton should command the respect of the players...and they should be all ears when it comes to learning the Steeler 34 zone blitz packages...

This defense should be much tougher and should tackle with much more authority.

The other thing is there may be a chance he could bring Ike Taylor (6-2, 195, 9) with him...and that would be a very nice addition indeed.

So there are plenty of plusses here...especially that we get a true 34 coach who has learned the defense from the best in the business...and as for calling the defenses and the blitzes, it's likely so ingrained in him by now in terms of feeding off of LeBeau's calls that the transition may be automatic.

I just hope the Cardinals give him the autonomy to hire the right defensive assistants...ones that he feels comfortable with and ones that he knows understands what's exepected from every player in the system.

Thanks for that Mitch I feel a little better about this now.

I still hate the Steelers though.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Then go after the position coach who's produced productive players. Pitts DBs outside of Troy are garbage.The DLine coach is available. Why not go after him?

Ike Taylor and Ryan Clark are far from garbage.

 

[TopGun]

Then go after the position coach who's produced productive players. Pitts DBs outside of Troy are garbage.The DLine coach is available. Why not go after him?

Any word on which of GB's guys we're interviewing? I'd much rather have Perry than Horton.

The Cardinals also requested permission from the Packers to interview assistant head coach/inside linebackers Winston Moss.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...ive-coordinator-ray-horton.html#ixzz1DPZmDupA

 

[Snakester]

Again, how do you make a name for yourself if you never actually get to make a name for your self? If you are letting another team do the experimenting then you probably wont get to sign him because The ones that do make a name for themselves either stay a really long time with their team, retire, become a head coach, or get fired for having not done a good job (meaning they have huge wrinkles).

There were a bunch of guys out there over the last few months that we could have made a push to sign and would have gotten one if the money was right.

Just to name one guy and there are many others. Dom Capers was a DC then a HC then a DC again. I don't want some bargain basement guy that has never done the job on any level. If he had at least been a DC for a major college team for five years and was very successful that would be something to look back on. I don't want just anybody to run our defense. I want somebody with a proven track record that knows what he is doing. I can't make it any plainer than that.

 

[joeshmo]

Taylor and Clark....not garbage

Pitt has always had that one player out of the 4 that was a weakness and teams would totally pick on. McFadden being that one in this Super Bowl.

Also Lebeau has a motto for calling defense. If you try to stop everything you will stop nothing. Basically he means you cannot cover everything, you have to pick your poison because if you cover everything you get spread to thin and get beat anyways. Every team is going to have a hole. Just so happens that one hole was one out of the four DB's.

 

[CardsFan88]

I don't know much about this guy, so I'll take a stab.

Organizations like the Steelers have a method. They train their replacements. Horton under this guess would be Butler's. So my guess is the steeler's made sure we weren't getting THEIR replacement for LeBeau, and instead we are looking further down the trough towards the guy they were possibly grooming for way off in the future.

I'm sure it's much more complicated, but that's my guess.

 

[ARodg]

Would I have liked a guy that's a proven and experienced guy?

Yes

Do I hate the choice?

No

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Butler really wants us he can just resign and let us sign him...

lol. my favorite post of the thread!