Butler Denied Permission, Horton Expected to be Next DC

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess there is no making a point with you. How about this- I want somebody that knows what they are doing and I don't believe Horton knows what he is doing. I would not hire a guy as a Captain of an aircraft carrier that had only been a deck hand on a tugboat. Thats my last best analogy that I can think of. The only other thing to say is let the guy bomb out on his own.

i understand what snakester is saying. i wouldn't hire anyone who hadn't captained an aircraft carrier to captain an aircraft carrier. but who would have captained that first aircraft carrier . . . ? and what if that first one got the first aircraft carrier sunk, would he still be the best hire b/c he's the only one who ever captained an aircraft carrier? and that's one to grow on!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I Am Really Starting To Hate The Steelers More And More And More; I Assume This May Signal Lebeau May Retire...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

On Luck I am right there with you. Tank it and get him. Maybe Lebeau is going to call it a day and retire? Steelers deny permission on this basis and we have to scramble and end up with Horton or someone else because they are available(why is Pitts dumping him and letting his contract expire?). It just seems as if it was played to make the Cards look incompetent. They may just be.

everyone that's saying "Pitts dumping him and letting his contract expire" also has to realize that though the rooneys are extremely successful, they've also been historically extremely frugal. when something costs too much for them, they usually let it walk with the thought that they're good enough to adequately replace it. with butler's big contract they may have just thought, "geez, horton's hearing rumblings about DC-ship too now, i don't think we can afford two big-time assistant contracts, gotta let one of 'em go and we just like butler more." doesn't mean that they think horton's garbage, may just be a cost-benefit analysis on their part.

look, i don't know much about horton other than the fact that he's studied under lebeau for years, has coached on one of the top defenses for years, and was instrumental in making polamalu the DPOY. did the secondary get torched in the superbowl? yup. did that secondary make it to the superbowl? yup. i like his pedigree. i hope he lives up to lebeau's standards. ain't nothing else out there that sends fireworks in the sky for me.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The Cards should've landed him when he had is supposed hip surgery... why let that stop you when your alternative was Bill EFFING Davis!? I would've flown Whis out to Him and signed the contract in the hospital waiting room for christ sake. this is total crap...

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Now reports have Horton going to the Cowboys as the DC.

This is all kinds of Effed up...Man this FO sucks...

 

[Cards Czar]

i understand what snakester is saying. i wouldn't hire anyone who hadn't captained an aircraft carrier to captain an aircraft carrier. but who would have captained that first aircraft carrier . . . ? and what if that first one got the first aircraft carrier sunk, would he still be the best hire b/c he's the only one who ever captained an aircraft carrier? and that's one to grow on!

Maybe but the XO of the Carrier can Captain it so can the Ops Officer and the Deck Officer. All are crossed trained to do it.

 

[Cardiac]

This is all kinds of Effed up...Man this FO sucks...

Settle down buddy. That was an incorrect post on my part from and incorrect tweet from Loncanguessalotandisneverright.

I'm actually pretty stoked about Horton. Love his pedigree and resume.

 

[PDXChris]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Horton

It says he is the Cardinals DC. Attached an image in case they remove it.

 

[Southpaw]

I hope Moss is still a option.

Oh no not Moss. He played for the U. That disqualifies him, right?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe but the XO of the Carrier can Captain it so can the Ops Officer and the Deck Officer. All are crossed trained to do it.

no way snakester would hire any of those guys. they weren't the XO so they can't do a good job of it.

 

[Southpaw]

My only concern with Horton is that if the Steelers had one weakness on defense, it was the secondary.

Bingo. Ask the Packers about that one.

 

[PDXChris]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Cardinals

On the Cardinals page too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers

Says the DB coach spot is vacant.

Wikipedia is so funny.

 

[Southpaw]

Okay, enough of my argument against him. Tell me why we should hire a guy that has no experience as a DC.

This organization starts at mediocre and then works their way down.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Open mindedness is a good thing. Such a shame it goes to waste.

Everyone has to get a start somewhere. Horton is known for bringing out the most in his players. Ask Troy Polamalu his views on Horton. Or Ike Taylor.

Bill Cowher was on a local radio station here claiming whoever winds up hiring Horton will "hit a home run."

He's got experience both as a player and as a coach. He's mentored under some good defensive minds, eventually he was due his opportunity to show he's capable of being a defensive coordinator on the NFL level. Someone would have given him the chance, and the fact that Dallas also expressed interest says something. I know Miami looked at him last season before going after the more established commodity, Nolan.

The guy has been cast off before anyone even has the opportunity to see how good he's capable of being. To me, it seems like people are more angry over the fact that Pittsburgh didn't get a "name" than anything else.

Sorry, but Dick LeBeau wasn't coming to Arizona. I know many had their hopes high that he was, but it wasn't something that had a chance of realistically developing.

Butler was by all accounts Arizona's number one choice. The fact that Pittsburgh blocked Arizona from talking to him leads to further creedence about LeBeau hanging it up soon. Thus, Pittsburgh has a plan in mind with Butler part of it. By accounts, both LeBeau and Butler then recommended Horton for the job.

It's not the end of the world. Give the guy a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised in the end.

 

[az jam]

I do hope that we hire Horton. I think the players will respect him and that is very important. i think this an excellent choice. I like his resume.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Open mindedness is a good thing. Such a shame it goes to waste.

Everyone has to get a start somewhere. Horton is known for bringing out the most in his players. Ask Troy Polamalu his views on Horton. Or Ike Taylor.

Bill Cowher was on a local radio station here claiming whoever winds up hiring Horton will "hit a home run."

He's got experience both as a player and as a coach. He's mentored under some good defensive minds, eventually he was due his opportunity to show he's capable of being a defensive coordinator on the NFL level. Someone would have given him the chance, and the fact that Dallas also expressed interest says something. I know Miami looked at him last season before going after the more established commodity, Nolan.

The guy has been cast off before anyone even has the opportunity to see how good he's capable of being. To me, it seems like people are more angry over the fact that Pittsburgh didn't get a "name" than anything else.

Sorry, but Dick LeBeau wasn't coming to Arizona. I know many had their hopes high that he was, but it wasn't something that had a chance of realistically developing.

Butler was by all accounts Arizona's number one choice. The fact that Pittsburgh blocked Arizona from talking to him leads to further creedence about LeBeau hanging it up soon. Thus, Pittsburgh has a plan in mind with Butler part of it. By accounts, both LeBeau and Butler then recommended Horton for the job.

It's not the end of the world. Give the guy a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised in the end.

Well said DJ.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

the thing I don't get is you have people saying they'd rather have Butler, myself included, Moss, Perry, even Kevin Greene but no one knows who will turn out the the best DC among the group. The people who don't like Horton have no basis for it. Pitt has had a top 5 defense it seems like every year. To think Horton had nothing to with it,and no input, is pretty stupid in my mind. I'd be willing to guess Whiz, from day 1, would have preferred Butler but if denied permission was ok with Horton. Alot of times you don't get the 1st choice whne Tressel was hired at OSU, i think he was 3rd choice behind Belotti and someone else. That's kind of worked out. Horton has just as much, if not more, of a pedigree in LeBeau's defense than Butler.

 

[john h]

The Steelers really suck I hate them even more now and I didnt think that was possible!

I do not recall any team denying one of its coaches to elevate himself. I would think he would be one P.O. coach next year as positions like this do not come along every year. Why would you want a coach who wants to leave? I am now a certified hater of the Steelers. They still have a model organization and we now will have a bunch of Steeler coaches if all this comes to pass.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Who denies permission? Is it the GM, ownership, or HC ? Or can any of them do it? I would think there has to be an official protocal and ownership did it.

 

[ajcardfan]

Bingo. Ask the Packers about that one.

When no one can run the ball on your defense, the only alternative is to throw the ball. A bunch. And, with today's rules, no secondary is going to completely shut down anyone.

Besides, Pittsburgh was 12th in passing defense overall. That is not shabby when you consider they were number one against the rush and teams often had to try to throw to catch up.

 

[ARodg]

Found this post on a Steelers board and I think it raises some valid points. My biggerst concern is definitely the lack of developing young talent in the Steelers Secondary. The Cards are betting the farm on OB developing into a good pass rusher, Dan Williams into a NT, DRC a shutdown corner, etc. A coach that helps those players turn the corner IMO is extremely important.

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I'm pretty sure there is a reason they are letting Horton go...

What has been the weakest link for 3 years running. Someone said it best, "I've thought the Secondary has been average since Tomlin's Super Bowl win..." After three years I would have to agree:

1. In three years we barely have a serviceable Nickel-back
2. Zero Development of rookies
3. Horrible game plans (before you say they don't advise or help... see Jets Defensive Coach vs. NE in the second game... adjustments)
4. Before you say talent..... see Sean Kugler or Jets Pass Defense past Cromartie/Revis... you can't name them.
5. After 2-3 years a DB should at least be able to come in and play Zone? Maybe? That is all a lot of other schemes ask and ours haven't since Cowher left.

I'm pretty sure Horton's contract was up and he's not getting renewed.

Go Steelers, Great Year!

----------------------------------------------------

Lack of Willingness to go into zone is another concern for me. This year the Pack played a lot more zone especially with Woodson, and I think it helped. No CB can shutdown an elite reciever but a good CB with Safety over the top can do a lot to limit an elite reciever. Just ask Fitz.

 

[john h]

Ray Horton is going to have a lot of credibility in the locker room where every player is going to know that he was the second choice (at least).

Excellent planning, Cards.

At some point, the "In Whis We Trust" sentiment on this board is going to have to begin to turn. There were a lot of "I'm sure that Whis has a wink-wink-nudge-nudge understanding with his BFF Butler on this situation, and that's why they're being so patient."

The Cards continue their history of being to slow on the trigger. Why would you wait until after the Superbowl to hire a DC when you did not even know if he would come or if his team would let him interview. You are left with all the coaches who did not get a job. This new guy may turn out well. I know nothing about him but I just do not like the way all this is happening. This is basically poor management skills. I think this is how we ended up with Anderson at QB. To slow to make decisions. Whiz would never make it as a pilot with his reaction time. Do we really know that Butler was his first choice or is this just speculation? I bet he is less expensive with his salary requirements? Just kidding as I know the Bidwills would never make this a factor. Just like Whiz acting as the OC as well as the HC. Saves money but the Cards would never never put that into play. It just happens to work out this way. This is just the Cards being the Cards. Who is really shocked? Not me. I have absolutely no idea even what position the Cards will draft with their #5 pick. If it is a QB he will cost more than another position so there is one reason we may not draft a QB. I wish baseball season would hurry and get here so I can watch my lousy Cubs play. They of course are cutting payroll. How on earth did I come to be a Cards/Cubs fan. I am cursed. The one team in the city that is doing well is the Black Hawks and I do not like hockey.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I just looked up LeBeau's coaching career. He was never more than a DB before being promoted to DC. What a bunch of idiots. They should have gone with a guy with more experience.

 

[imaCafan]

What makes a LB coach more qualified than a DB coach?

 

[Renz]

The Cards continue their history of being to slow on the trigger. Why would you wait until after the Superbowl to hire a DC when you did not even know if he would come or if his team would let him interview. You are left with all the coaches who did not get a job. This new guy may turn out well. I know nothing about him but I just do not like the way all this is happening. This is basically poor management skills. I think this is how we ended up with Anderson at QB. To slow to make decisions. Whiz would never make it as a pilot with his reaction time. Do we really know that Butler was his first choice or is this just speculation? I bet he is less expensive with his salary requirements? Just kidding as I know the Bidwills would never make this a factor. Just like Whiz acting as the OC as well as the HC. Saves money but the Cards would never never put that into play. It just happens to work out this way. This is just the Cards being the Cards. Who is really shocked? Not me. I have absolutely no idea even what position the Cards will draft with their #5 pick. If it is a QB he will cost more than another position so there is one reason we may not draft a QB. I wish baseball season would hurry and get here so I can watch my lousy Cubs play. They of course are cutting payroll. How on earth did I come to be a Cards/Cubs fan. I am cursed. The one team in the city that is doing well is the Black Hawks and I do not like hockey.

Wrong. Whiz wanted Bulger, but the club wasn't willing to wait so they signed Anderson. I guess no matter what Whiz does you will criticize.

Obviously, Whiz was willing to wait and hire the guy he wanted instead of just hiring the first guy who interviewed. In my experience that is good management.