Can McCown have a Drew Brees type year??

[Crazy Canuck]

No thank you. Brees had a live arm and some thought process. McCown has neither.

Brees has alot going for him, but to suggest that McCown has a "dead arm" is positively...

 

[CardFan67]

Brees has alot going for him, but to suggest that McCown has a "dead arm" is positively...

Mc Cown has a great arm and awesome athletic ability, IMO he does lack the entire package but I agree, you can't really knock the guy for his overall physical talent...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Oh really? Guess what? It was Drew Brees FOURTH year before he caught on and he had started 27 games before than. Last year was Josh's THIRD year and he's only started 16 games. Brees had a 67.5 QB rating his third year and Josh had a 74.1 QB rating in his third year.

What say we give Josh the same opportunity the Chargers gave Brees.

Um, what opportunity did the Chargers give Brees? They drafted a QB after one lousy season by Brees even after he had a better 2002 season than McCown had in 2004. Hell, the Bolts were trying to trade Brees all summer after they had drafted Rivers. They only had to see one lousy campaign for them to move on at that position. Meanwhile in Cardinal land, a player must suck for at least three years before we can finally move on. Ugh, it's a sad epidemic.

And for the last time, can we please stop the Brees-McClown comparisons? One guy was a Heisman Trophy candidate who carried a team to the Rose Bowl and would have been a Top 5 pick if he were a couple inches taller. The other was benched at Southern Methodist and had to transfer to Podunk State in order to get a starting gig and only got drafted thanks to combine times and our former head coaches' idiocy.

 

[JPlay]

Um, what opportunity did the Chargers give Brees? They drafted a QB after one lousy season by Brees even after he had a better 2002 season than McCown had in 2004. Hell, the Bolts were trying to trade Brees all summer after they had drafted Rivers. They only had to see one lousy campaign for them to move on at that position. Meanwhile in Cardinal land, a player must suck for at least three years before we can finally move on. Ugh, it's a sad epidemic.

And for the last time, can we please stop the Brees-McClown comparisons? One guy was a Heisman Trophy candidate who carried a team to the Rose Bowl and would have been a Top 5 pick if he were a couple inches taller. The other was benched at Southern Methodist and had to transfer to Podunk State in order to get a starting gig and only got drafted thanks to combine times and our former head coaches' idiocy.

Thank you. My point exactly. Josh is lucky to have a roster spot in this league. Brees was a star in college who had failed to live up to his potential previously. And don't forget the fact that Antonio Gates emergence and some running backed name Ladanian helped him out greatly.

 

[BigRedFan]

Actually Ladanian had his best year when Brees played poorly (2300 yfc). Brees played well without a legitimate #1 receiver; he deserves all the credit imo.

Thank you. My point exactly. Josh is lucky to have a roster spot in this league. Brees was a star in college who had failed to live up to his potential previously. And don't forget the fact that Antonio Gates emergence and some running backed name Ladanian helped him out greatly.

 

[40yearfan]

Um, what opportunity did the Chargers give Brees? They drafted a QB after one lousy season by Brees even after he had a better 2002 season than McCown had in 2004. Hell, the Bolts were trying to trade Brees all summer after they had drafted Rivers. They only had to see one lousy campaign for them to move on at that position. Meanwhile in Cardinal land, a player must suck for at least three years before we can finally move on. Ugh, it's a sad epidemic.

And for the last time, can we please stop the Brees-McClown comparisons? One guy was a Heisman Trophy candidate who carried a team to the Rose Bowl and would have been a Top 5 pick if he were a couple inches taller. The other was benched at Southern Methodist and had to transfer to Podunk State in order to get a starting gig and only got drafted thanks to combine times and our former head coaches' idiocy.

Thank you. My point exactly. Josh is lucky to have a roster spot in this league. Brees was a star in college who had failed to live up to his potential previously. And don't forget the fact that Antonio Gates emergence and some running backed name Ladanian helped him out greatly.

So in other words, all that's required to play this game of football is a good pedigree? Give me a break guys. There have been more Heisman Trophy busts than winners. You guys have your priorities all screwed up. It's performance that counts, not how you did in college. As Tango would say "UNBELIEVABLE".

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

So in other words, all that's required to play this game of football is a good pedigree? Give me a break guys. There have been more Heisman Trophy busts than winners. You guys have your priorities all screwed up. It's performance that counts, not how you did in college. As Tango would say "UNBELIEVABLE".

You obviously don't see the point I am making. With Brees there was at least some history proving that he was a good QB at lower levels. There has been no such history with McCown.

And I do put stock in performance, which is why I agreed with the Bolts at the time for picking Rivers. Simply put, Brees wasn't getting it done just as McCown hasn't been able to get it done during his entire tenure in Arizona.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You obviously don't see the point I am making. With Brees there was at least some history proving that he was a good QB at lower levels. There has been no such history with McCown.

And I do put stock in performance, which is why I agreed with the Bolts at the time for picking Rivers. Simply put, Brees wasn't getting it done just as McCown hasn't been able to get it done during his entire tenure in Arizona.

.... and subsequent to drafting Rivers, Brees found his stride. Analogous, perhaps, to the Cards signing Warner for 1 year.

McCown has the natural tools, and there's 12 million in "dead money" and names like Jackson, Kendall, Starks, Shelton, Clement... giving evidence that Green will have no reservation in starting Josh if he beats out Warner in camp and the pre-season.

I, for one - will be quite content with Green's final decision.

 

[BigRedMO]

Decision is already made. Warner is starter on opening day. It is one thing to sit an expensive guy who was already on the team and quite another to sign a guy for big money and then sit him. That would make Green's judgement appear questionable to Bidwill who is paying the bills. No guarantee Warner starts all season but I think that is even likely barring injury. He will start opening day if healthy.

Giants situation was different because Warner was hired to groom an expensive "franchise" QB.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Decision is already made. Warner is starter on opening day. It is one thing to sit an expensive guy who was already on the team and quite another to sign a guy for big money and then sit him. That would make Green's judgement appear questionable to Bidwill who is paying the bills. No guarantee Warner starts all season but I think that is even likely barring injury. He will start opening day if healthy.

Perhaps you can refer us to the GREEN QUOTE that says clearly that it's a done deal.

 

[BigRedMO]

That quote would be "I recommended Warner to you Mr. Bidwill at an expensive price if I were to suggest Mccown is the starter I guess I would be wasting your money in the Warner signing. I exhibited bad judgement and poor player evaluation in recommending the signing. I will resign at the end of the year for making such poor decisions and wasting your money."

Seriously, do you buy a new car and park in the garage? Mccown was 30th rated QB. Unless there is divine intervention he will not be Joe Montana this year.

 

[Evil Ash]

Decision is already made. Warner is starter on opening day. It is one thing to sit an expensive guy who was already on the team and quite another to sign a guy for big money and then sit him. That would make Green's judgement appear questionable to Bidwill who is paying the bills. No guarantee Warner starts all season but I think that is even likely barring injury. He will start opening day if healthy.

Giants situation was different because Warner was hired to groom an expensive "franchise" QB.

In your opinion, the decision has been made. Last I checked Coach Green (the person's opinion that really matters) has not said anything either way.

and anyone that keeps bringing up the paycheck, remember that there is Wendell Bryant and Calvin Pace are riding the pine. If you go by that logic Shaun King should have started last year ... guess what he didn't

As for the whole "pedigree" argument than you would have to throw Trent Green out of the League because he was a backup his entire college career.

Like said the same damn regurgitated points are brought up over and over again. If Coach Green didn't think somewhat highly of Josh McCown he 1) wouldn't have re-signed him at all or 2) not given the middle tender (1st round compensation). Coach Green and our FO decide the fate of whose starting not you or me

 

[BigRedMO]

If you dont believe that decisions are made and not announced then I guess you dont believe MI-6 saying that Bush decided on the war in Iraq in summer of '02.

This is a very expensive guy who has Green's blessing to be signed. He may get benched but Warner will start barring injury. We can discuss this again in September. I am pretty sure I wont be admitting that I was wrong based on human nature and economics.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

That quote would be "I recommended Warner to you Mr. Bidwill at an expensive price if I were to suggest Mccown is the starter I guess I would be wasting your money in the Warner signing. I exhibited bad judgement and poor player evaluation in recommending the signing. I will resign at the end of the year for making such poor decisions and wasting your money."

Seriously, do you buy a new car and park in the garage? Mccown was 30th rated QB. Unless there is divine intervention he will not be Joe Montana this year.

Making up a quote doesn't cut it.

I think it's likely that Warner will be the starter on day one, but he'll earn it in camp by beating out everyone else for the job. Mr. Bidwill has supported Green's decision to get rid of big money players (Jackson, Starks, Kendall, Shelton, Clement). And if the team is winning, who takes the snaps from centre, will be rather irrelevant.

 

[BigDavis75]

Geez people act like I'm saying give the guy the starting job. I'm not. Quit trying to put words into my mouth.

Yes Big Ben was better of course HE WAS ON A BETTER TEAM. Why is it people seem to forget that they were 5-1 before he played a damn down?

Will Josh do well? Hell I don't know and those that claim they do know are full of crap. We don't know whats going to happen. In case no one else has noticed the majority of the NFL QBs got better with their second team. There is no magic formula folks. For every Peyton Manning there is a Jake Delhomme. If it were that simple to find a franchise QB a lot less coaches and GMs would be fired on a yearly basis.



Cute but again your blaming the entirety of the ineptitude on one guy. If thats the case doesn't it seem odd to you that our WR and Oline coaches as well as the OC were fired during the same offseason? Maybe there's more to it than just one guy.



Good for him. That doesn't mean the career of Josh is shot either. You're reading stuff that isn't there

You just made that number up, its completeley off. The Steelers were dwelling in mediocrity before Big Ben became the starter. In Week 1 they barely beat the Raiders, the friggin' Raiders.

 

[Evil Ash]

You just made that number up, its completeley off. The Steelers were dwelling in mediocrity before Big Ben became the starter. In Week 1 they barely beat the Raiders, the friggin' Raiders.

Please tell me this is sarcasm.

The Steelers were a much better team than us before Big Ben ever started. They had the #1 rated rushing team in the league, had an Oline that *gasp* actually blocked the people in front of them, had WRs that got open on a fairly regualr basis. Big Ben took over when Maddox got hurt. Somehow its gone to urban legend status that Big Ben was put in to improve the team and they were unstoppable as just a result of him going in. Sorry folks but thats not reality

They were 5-1 before Big Ben played a down. If they were that mediocre, they wouldn't have that record.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

As for the whole "pedigree" argument than you would have to throw Trent Green out of the League because he was a backup his entire college career.

Of course you can come up with exceptions to every rule. The fact remains that there's a much better probablity than a successful college player becomes a good NFL player rather than a piss-poor college player. That's why the Brees-McCown comparisons are stupid. Even before Brees' 2004 campaign he had a history of being successful at every level, something that cannot be said of Josh. If McCown couldn't figure out how to be an above average QB in both high school and in college, then the odds are heavily against him being one at the professional level.

 

[Evil Ash]

Of course you can come up with exceptions to every rule. The fact remains that there's a much better probablity than a successful college player becomes a good NFL player rather than a piss-poor college player. That's why the Brees-McCown comparisons are stupid. Even before Brees' 2004 campaign he had a history of being successful at every level, something that cannot be said of Josh. If McCown couldn't figure out how to be an above average QB in both high school and in college, then the odds are heavily against him being one at the professional level.

I didn't say the odds weren't against him because they are. The odds were against Kurt Warner ever playing a down in the NFL but he's done pretty well.

All I'm saying is that it MIGHT happen. He has all the physical tools and may eventually become a damn good QB. We don't know what is going to happen. People are acting like I'm saying its an absolute certainty that he will become a damn good QB, and thats not the case at all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They were 5-1 before Big Ben played a down. If they were that mediocre, they wouldn't have that record.

uh - Ash, they were 1-0(barely beating that crap-ass Raiders team at home) and getting the crap beat out of them by Baltimore in Game 2 when Ben came in and started the rest of the season.

 

[Evil Ash]

uh - Ash, they were 1-0(barely beating that crap-ass Raiders team at home) and getting the crap beat out of them by Baltimore in Game 2 when Ben came in and started the rest of the season.

I stand corrected.

I swear I kept hearing how he took over the team after 6 games (of course I don't pay attention to the Steelers). Must be thinking of someone else then

I still say the Steelers were a much better team than us even before he started

 

[BigRedMO]

It is human nature not to want to admit mistakes. Dennis Green has that trait on steroids. He benched Mccown and when King was a complete flop he still would not go back to Mccown. To do so would have been admitting he was wrong. Instead he went to Navarre. He chose a guy who had not played a down in a real NFL game over Mccown while the Cards were in the playoff hunt. That says a alot to me. At the time Mccown was benched they were in the running for the playoffs but not due to much that Mccown had done. The team was in competition based on its defense. Green wanted just a caretaker QB who could provide even a marginal ability to put points up.

 

[Evil Ash]

It is human nature not to want to admit mistakes. Dennis Green has that trait on steroids. He benched Mccown and when King was a complete flop he still would not go back to Mccown. To do so would have been admitting he was wrong. Instead he went to Navarre. He chose a guy who had not played a down in a real NFL game over Mccown while the Cards were in the playoff hunt. That says a alot to me. At the time Mccown was benched they were in the running for the playoffs but not due to much that Mccown had done. The team was in competition based on its defense. Green wanted just a caretaker QB who could provide even a marginal ability to put points up.

So why did he sign him at the middle tender if he thought so poorly of him?

BTW Green has gone on record about saying that the QB carousel that he did last year was probably a mistake

 

[40yearfan]

Of course you can come up with exceptions to every rule. The fact remains that there's a much better probablity than a successful college player becomes a good NFL player rather than a piss-poor college player. That's why the Brees-McCown comparisons are stupid. Even before Brees' 2004 campaign he had a history of being successful at every level, something that cannot be said of Josh. If McCown couldn't figure out how to be an above average QB in both high school and in college, then the odds are heavily against him being one at the professional level.

College: Finished college career at Sam Houston State after three years at Southern Methodist (S.M.U.) … left S.M.U. program to showcase his passing ability … threw for 4,022 yards and 24 touchdowns during three-year career at S.M.U. … surpassed that touchdown total (32 touchdowns) in one season at Sam Houston State … for his college career, completed 599 of 1,093 passes (54.8 percent) for 7,503 yards and 56 touchdowns … 3,481 yards at Sam Houston State rank eighth on the Bearkats’ career list … one of 16 players considered for the Walter Payton Award as a senior, given to the top performer in the NCAA Division 1-AA ranks.

Threw for 32 TD's in his senior year. Not bad for a below average QB in college.

 

[conraddobler]

Threw for 32 TD's in his senior year. Not bad for a below average QB in college.

The story I heard as he told it was that his old team SMU completely changed the offense to almost an entirely run based system and he transfered because of that, not because they didn't want him.

He was a kid at the time and it might not have been the best idea or maybe it was considering that if he dosen't put up those numbers at Sam Houston he would have stood a great chance of being totally undrafted. Playing the good soldier maybe wasn't the best idea in that case who knows.

I don't really see it as that much of a minus that he transfered, I don't see it as a plus but some posters seem to infer he couldn't cut it which I don't think was the case.

I have doubts about the guy too, I don't know what potential he has and having him start last year IMO was a mistake. I think it was somewhat of a mistake to leave him on the bench, one game fine but I would have gone back to him the next.

He didn't do anything to set the world on fire that's for sure, however on that team I don't see how with his experience level he could be expected to legitimately.

Sure there are Tom Bradys out there once in a while but they are not normal.

Honestly what would you rather have, a kid like Plummer who lights it up his first year winging the ball wherever he wants so that it artificially inflates his worth to the team only to find out later that with a little game film the jig is up his whole career or a guy like Josh that does dumb things, can't read the defense without a map, yet dose take care of the ball rather well for a rookie.

He had the right instincts, he's learning the hard way but in the end I think he'll make a good QB for someone.

 

[football karma]

The whole pedigree thing cuts both ways:

Who was far better prepared to come in an contribute right away at QB: 3 year starter in the Big 10 who played in a pro style passing attack -- or the guy who played two years at Sam Houston State?

Yet the pedigree guy struggled mightily, despite having the luxury of handing off to a running back who routinely rang up 1200+ yard seasons. His own organization gave up on him, and drafted a QB high. Yet somehow in year 3 he finally "gets it" and goes to the pro bowl.

I am not saying that Josh WILL be the next Drew Brees. However, consider that Josh in his first year of starting had: a new offense for him and the team, a rookie and 2nd year receiver as starters, an o-line with a rookie center and two first time starting guards, and an over the hill running back.

Hardly the best environment to set a young QB up for success. Was McCown without blame last year? Hardly -- but had Ben Roethlisberger started for the Cardinals last year -- I am guessing right now there would be a raging debate going on if he was a bust or not.