Cardinals at Commanders gameday thread 9-10-23

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

As for my comment to chopper, it was with regards to his suggestion that swapping a 2024 5th for a 7th would prevent the Cardinals from building through the draft. I don’t believe it will.

I also don’t believe the Cardinals “threw away” a pick. Dobbs looked like crap against the Commies that is for sure. However the Cardinals are getting a full season to try out Dobbs for the backup QB position. I have my doubts whether he sticks but he has only been with the team for all of a week.

When it comes to the QB position I think the Cardinals need to continue to take their shots. Unfortunately most of those shots are going to fail. I don’t believe that Dobbs will ever be anything more that a backup.

Would I have traded for Dobbs? Probably not seeing as I didn’t know much about him other than he played for Tennessee back in the day. However I can understand how the current coaching staff would want to bring in a QB that they are comfortable with. Maybe see if he sticks. McCoy looked shot against the Vikings and wasn’t going to be on the team next season. At least with Dobbs the Cardinals have a guy who could potentially be an option past this season. If Dobbs doesn’t work out all they lost is moving back 50ish spots in the draft late on day three.

Additionally I personally don’t believe that Tune is ready to start. I think he has potential but if the Cards start him too early I’m afraid of him losing his confidence. So I would rather have Dobbs take the lump’s early on to give Tune as much time as possible to become more comfortable with game day process and more time in this new offense. I think the Cardinals will roll with Dobbs for at least a game or two more. Thus giving Tune a couple more weeks to get accustomed to the game flow on Sundays.

Not to be argumentative, but this is a topic that I’ve always found curious . . .

. . . why are first round rookie QBs thrown to the wolves but any QB drafted in the 5th round not ready to start? Richardson is raw as hell but started. Conversely Tune started 44, and played in 47, games in his collegiate career. Why is he less ready to start than stroud, murray, tua, Richardson, etc as a rookie?

 

[Chopper0080]

Not to be argumentative, but this is a topic that I’ve always found curious . . .

. . . why are first round rookie QBs thrown to the wolves but any QB drafted in the 5th round not ready to start? Richardson is raw as hell but started. Conversely Tune started 44, and played in 47, games in his collegiate career. Why is he less ready to start than stroud, murray, tua, Richardson, etc as a rookie?

I agree with this. Tune's issue isn't experience. It is overall ability. That shouldn't prevent him from being ready, only that he may not be able.

 

[Ronin]

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[BirdGangThing]

Wolves wolves wolves

Giants aren't wolves

Cowboys and Whiners are the wolves

This whole give Dobbs another game to suck it up only further throws Tune to your precious wolves - without any actual game time experience

If you want to keep Tune out against New York with the logic being to preserve his delicate innocence.. then you have to keep him out against Dallas and Frisco too

So sure, Dobbs it is

 

[schutd]

The Commanders were completely unimpressive - with Kyler we would have won.

I wonder how "buzzsaw" guy is feeling?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I wonder how "buzzsaw" guy is feeling?

Probably dull.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I wonder how "buzzsaw" guy is feeling?

At least he knew better than to come back and gloat.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not to be argumentative, but this is a topic that I’ve always found curious . . .

. . . why are first round rookie QBs thrown to the wolves but any QB drafted in the 5th round not ready to start? Richardson is raw as hell but started. Conversely Tune started 44, and played in 47, games in his collegiate career. Why is he less ready to start than stroud, murray, tua, Richardson, etc as a rookie?

Because fans/ownership and maybe even management expect it. I think that is the same with any first round pick. People expect them to play and to justify the decision made quickly.

 

[kerouac9]

Not to be argumentative, but this is a topic that I’ve always found curious . . .

. . . why are first round rookie QBs thrown to the wolves but any QB drafted in the 5th round not ready to start? Richardson is raw as hell but started. Conversely Tune started 44, and played in 47, games in his collegiate career. Why is he less ready to start than stroud, murray, tua, Richardson, etc as a rookie?

For me it’s because the top priority of a team with a first round QB is developing that QB or determining if they’re a Rosen-level bust. That development and determination is more important than winning now.

Clayton Tune isn’t going to be the starting quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals. Ever. Either Kyler is ill-suited to the new staff and we draft a new option or Kyler sticks and we build around him.

Based on that, we need to focus on developing and determining the quality of the players on the rest of the offense. Can’t do that with a complete liability under center. You have to try and do better.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Man… you are really in full on troll mode today.

Ignore is my friend...

 

[TheCardFan]

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[dreamcastrocks]

For me it’s because the top priority of a team with a first round QB is developing that QB or determining if they’re a Rosen-level bust. That development and determination is more important than winning now.

Clayton Tune isn’t going to be the starting quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals. Ever. Either Kyler is ill-suited to the new staff and we draft a new option or Kyler sticks and we build around him.

Based on that, we need to focus on developing and determining the quality of the players on the rest of the offense. Can’t do that with a complete liability under center. You have to try and do better.

I think there is a good chance that he starts a game or two this year.

 

[kerouac9]

I think there is a good chance that he starts a game or two this year.

As the backup to an injured Kyler Murray

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would be super pessimistic from the result. The team was far more competitive than I thought they would be. The Cards were playing early on the East Coast a QB on the team for 2 weeks. The team would have likely destroyed Washington with Kyler playing.

The result yesterday should create some cautious optimism about our new coaching staff at the very least.

I agree with you, kind of. The passrush was somewhat of a surprising revelation. But I’ll reserve full accolades on that front until I see them against a better oline than the Washington Turnstiles.

The downside - and why I didn’t include the entirety of the defense - was the penalties. 9 for 122 is just an undisciplined team. Something I had hoped would improve.

The offense stunk. The oline was less than impressive - and yea I know the skins have a terrific frontline but they were also playing without whatshisname.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If you want to call Dobbs a bad move after one game, and it is does look that way, TRY to be fair in your opinion of Monti by at least mentioning some good (imo, great) moves he made.

Why? He was addressing a single move. You want him to list every positive and negative about monti in every post? He’s addressing a single move and opining on it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It doesn’t seem like that to those of us who we’re saying it was an inexplicable decision at the time.

I’m always shaking my head when posters who lack foresight call other poster’s foresight hindsight. Happens every time on ASFN. And every time I find it hilarious.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It doesn’t seem like that to those of us who we’re saying it was an inexplicable decision at the time.

Do you think Tune gave the Cardinals a better chance to win on Sunday?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

.

I'm not sure getting him in March vs 17 days ago makes a huge difference to the performance.

If not then they have questionable judgment in regards to QB talent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No but it isn't the same as trading away your lone 5th round pick.

Eh an asset is an asset. It’s value isn’t impacted by the existence of other ones. You still get to pick the player at each spot that you’d get with each pick. You don’t get three players with two picks. You only get those three players with three picks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Where did I claim this? I claim 1-3rd round is generally where you add real talent.

Nice of you to mis-characterize my argument, but I guess I'm used to it by now.

They brought in a veteran who generally knows the system and a veteran they know.

I swear every damn move is the sinking of the Titanic to you guys. It's hilarious and maddening.

The reality is some of us don't care.

Dobbs isn't anything I said he would be or wouldn't be. I made no predictions about his performance.

I swear I'm talking a different language than you guys are at times.

Laviska shenault ring a bell?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For me it’s because the top priority of a team with a first round QB is developing that QB or determining if they’re a Rosen-level bust. That development and determination is more important than winning now.

Clayton Tune isn’t going to be the starting quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals. Ever. Either Kyler is ill-suited to the new staff and we draft a new option or Kyler sticks and we build around him.

Based on that, we need to focus on developing and determining the quality of the players on the rest of the offense. Can’t do that with a complete liability under center. You have to try and do better.

If argue we just played with a complete liability under center. Why not give the lesser known quality an equal shot to be a complete liability?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Laviska shenault ring a bell?

It’s so bizarre to me that so many think there aren’t receipts that exist for previously made comments on the board.

It’s clear as day in this thread…

Gannon roasted for pep talk

Why are other teams are going to trade good young talent under team control to us for late round picks? There are a range of issues for why. It happens every year

www.arizonasportsfans.com

that Krango agreed with Brit that we could use late round picks to trade for good young players, under team control… like Laviska Shenault.

But now that it appears (and did at the time we traded for Dobbs) that we blew a late round pick on a bad player, who team control doesn’t matter, late round picks are meaningless.

That looks like a complete contradiction of one’s own argument.

 

[slanidrac16]

Sure. But this is Madden where you go into season with Tune as your QB.

I swear some of you watch the NFL for decades and don't even understand the basics of roster building. Any time a new regime comes in, they bring a QB familiar with their system. They tried earlier and failed. And when they saw McCoy was completely inadequate, they made a move for a guy they know.

Sure you can find talent with late round picks, but QB is a more important position. I'll defer to people who know what they are doing in this instance.

Good move? Bad move? It's a move. I didn't characterize the move either way when it was made. I just said the logic makes sense. Do. You. Get. It?

LOL where? You guys are blowing every thread saying "See!! We are right, you are wrong!!! Neener Neener Neener.

A bad faith discussion is talking anything with you guys. You don't see me running it in your faith about how wrong you were about the pass rush or other aspects of the team that were fine.

You know why? I understand that it's pretty damn early to make any definitive argument either way. The Dobbs trade made sense. Good. Bad. Indifferent.

Just like I engage Trump supporters (not making it political).

It has everything to do with what we are talking about.

Maybe if you, and your ilk, weren't always so focused on "I'm right, you're wrong" type of discussions, things would be a lot more pleasant.

Couldn’t have said it any better.

 

[Krangodnzr]

while also claiming those late round draft picks can be used to add good, young players, who we can then hold under contract for a couple years.

pretty much the anti-thesis of everything Josh Dobbs is as a player.

reality is some people just can't ever admit they're wrong about anything.

I thought you were talking about drafting young talent not trading. The chances of drafting a good player in the fifth round is very low. Ives said that a number of times.

 

[Chopper0080]

Couldn’t have said it any better.

I can. If you are playing Madden, don' give up a 5th to trade for Dobbs. Geting something better or go with Tune.