Cardinals not paying Pace's salary

[Avondale_Larry]

And if Pace was drunk that'd be true but every report I've read says alcohol was not involved. Nidan was just making an example, not saying Pace was drunk.

A fair correction. And the Airman in my example wasn't drunk either, just irresponsible. As was Pace.

 

[JasonKGME]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2225914

This franchise is shrew

League and team sources confirmed that the Cardinals have opted, as is their prerogative for players on the non-football injury list, to withhold $306,544 of Pace's scheduled base salary of $473,750 for the 2005 season. That represents 65 percent of Pace's base salary.

Further, the team is expected to seek reimbursement for a prorated portion of the $2.1 million signing bonus that Pace received as a first-round choice in the 2003 draft. That could amount to approximately $271,000 more in penalties.

I love the rampant speculation that is taken as gospel around here. Len got the idea about them going after the signing bonus from an AZ repugnant article which said the team has the "option" of seeking a reimbursement for the prorated portion of his signing bonus.

I have yet to see any article, or notification that the team has filed any such action, I would have assumed they would have filed it at the same time they filed that they would not pay his salary for the remainder of the year.

Until it happens it is strickly gossip folks, and not necissarily going to happen, if we were gonna do that why didnt we with Thomas Jones???

 

[Duckjake]

Nidan, it's more perception than reality.

The reality is that a team like the Patriots can do the same exact thing the Cardinals just did and no one will think twice about it.

The Cardinals do it and it just reinforces the former reputation, well earned in the past, of being cheap.

Conrad has it dead on. The Cards have always had a serious public relations problem. In several areas. If they go after his signing bonus, which is nothing more than the remnants of an attempt to circumvent the salary cap, they could do millions of dollars of damage to the image of the franchise just to recoup a fraction of that amount from Pace's signing bonus.

Pace, if he and his agent were smart, would have taken out a disability income policy that would replace a significant portion of his salary in this situation. If so, the Cards, as savvy PR people, would have said that Calvin was and will remain an integral part of the team, has insurance to take care of his lost salary while he is out, and that he will have every opportunity to win back his position once he is recovered.

On a related matter does anyone remember how the Cardinals handled the salary and signing bonus money of the guy(s) who were injured in the car accident going to training camp a few years ago? I think it was Ernest Dye who suffered a career ending injury.

 

[Brian]

Why is it that several posts on here refer to Pace as "dumb-ass", "stupid", etc.

What happened to him wasn't his fault. He didn't instigate it, he wasn't acting irresponsible, he didn't put himself in a bad situation or do something immature.

He was attacked, if you will.

If one of my soldiers did this to another one of my soldiers I wouldn't say one word to the guy that was injured but I would be irate with the one who attacked him.

The Cards are just adding fuel to the "They are cheap" blazing inferno.

If anything the Gedney fiasco cemented that perception.

They don't need this.

 

[Sandan]

I love the rampant speculation that is taken as gospel around here. Len got the idea about them going after the signing bonus from an AZ repugnant article which said the team has the "option" of seeking a reimbursement for the prorated portion of his signing bonus.

I have yet to see any article, or notification that the team has filed any such action, I would have assumed they would have filed it at the same time they filed that they would not pay his salary for the remainder of the year.

Until it happens it is strickly gossip folks, and not necissarily going to happen, if we were gonna do that why didnt we with Thomas Jones???

The best point yet

 

[jstadvl]

Ok I'll bite

I agree with DuckJake, EVERY athelete shuld take out a seriuos insurance policy against any mishap that could happen.
I personally don't agree with the perception, it is hard to beat, that the team is cheap. After that TE's stomach problems and that fiasco, now this. It isn't good PR for future FAs.
Is the team wrong? I don't know if there's a wrong and right, just the way it's being handled isn't sitting riight with some. but it has nothing to do with cheapness. (We have to get past that).
He did lie. Well, fib at first.
As for bonus's, I have a little first hand knowledge about it. Not in my field. Mental Health providers of any kind never get signing bonus's, except to teach. But, some one close to me, got a ten thousand dollar signing bonus when they were recruited by a new company. Now, that's because the company knows, by Pand L statements what the person brings to the team.
However, if that person, loses their jobbecause of immoral or unethical behavior,, or if they leave the company, within two years of signing on, they must give the bonus money back.
Calvin, and i'm a big fan of Pace, has yet to show consistently, what he'll bring to the team.
I also agree with Ryan, if he goes, someone will pick him up and, ala KVB, he'll do an upright job. He was turning the corner this year. The Cards will want to keep him, but, will he want to stay?

 

[clif]

Why is it that several posts on here refer to Pace as "dumb-ass", "stupid", etc.

What happened to him wasn't his fault. He didn't instigate it, he wasn't acting irresponsible, he didn't put himself in a bad situation or do something immature.

He was attacked, if you will.

If one of my soldiers did this to another one of my soldiers I wouldn't say one word to the guy that was injured but I would be irate with the one who attacked him.

The Cards are just adding fuel to the "They are cheap" blazing inferno.

If anything the Gedney fiasco cemented that perception.

They don't need this.

Reread Lv's earlier post. It was horseplay that turned too serious. It was a dumb move on his part to even be in the situation.

 

[Brian]

Reread Lv's earlier post. It was horseplay that turned too serious. It was a dumb move on his part to even be in the situation.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

So he was screwing around with one of his buddies. The end result was an ACCIDENT.

I honestly don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that it was a dumb move to even be in the situation. K2's accident was dumb. Pace's was just unfortunate. He can't help that his buddy lost his temper and came after him. He couldn't forsee that and he couldn't prevent it.

 

[rtjim]

They're going to fire your ass, not take away money they've already given you

They will if you were given a sign on bonus, such as in health care if you don't complete the contract you owe them part or all of your bonus.

 

[AzCards21]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

So he was screwing around with one of his buddies. The end result was an ACCIDENT.

I honestly don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that it was a dumb move to even be in the situation. K2's accident was dumb. Pace's was just unfortunate. He can't help that his buddy lost his temper and came after him. He couldn't forsee that and he couldn't prevent it.

I agree it's unfortunate. But if you or I had this happen there's no way we would expect to be paid 300+ thousand for not going to work.

 

[ajcardfan]

The one thing I'm most sure of is that we do not know the whole story on this situation. I doubt it will ever completely come out. The whole thing stinks. But, I don't want to pass judgement on either Pace or the Cards when I know I don't most of the story.

 

[john h]

I really don't have a problem with it. If you are dumb enough to get into a wrestling match over a weekend so sever that it requires surgery and causes you to miss work.. I don't have a problem with him not getting paid. With his past history and the teams past history of quirky non football injuries I can see why they would do this.

If that is what the rules are that is what the rules are. However, what do most teams generally do? If it were a star I doubt they would do it. If it is a guy you want to keep you need to think it over. Is the money you save well spent? It is not always open and shut. If a lot of teams do not do this and this gets around the league then it is just another nail in the coffin of our being a cheap team. Hope our people are doing it right as I just do not know.

 

[john h]

Russ I think you are missing the point.

Pace is paid to be a profesional athelte. Therefore it is part of his responsibilty to look after his body as part of his job. It's not the same as if you or I got hurt.

How would your employer feel if you turned up drunk to work ?

What if the player was your superstar QB and he was in his contract year?
You might end up losing more money than you save. You might win the battle and lose the war. These things are not always as simple as what the contract reads.

 

[Sandan]

Agreed but Pace isn't our superstar francise QB.

He has been a marginal DE that was drafted way to high by Mac. Sure he was improving but he had a long way to go. In his situation, he needs to to doing things, better, harder and cleaner than others. In this he has failed.

Read Jamel Lewis comments on his mistakes in maintaing contacts with 'old' friends from a different world.

 

[jstadvl]

What if the player was your superstar QB and he was in his contract year?
You might end up losing more money than you save. You might win the battle and lose the war. These things are not always as simple as what the contract reads.

WOW! Wouldn't it be wondeful if WE could all remember that every time we posted. With just a tad of change. Things just aren't as simple as some of us would like to believe.

 

[john h]

That's a perfect example, they could have but they didn't.

If you take every single opportunity to get your money back then don't chirp and moan about being called cheap.

You are what you are, you may be in the right but don't whine and wonder why people say you're are cheap when that's exactly how you act relative to your peers.

What if the guy who is involved is one who plays for you when he is hurt all the time and never misses a play. A team leader who plays 100% on every down. Do you not give that some consideration. Judges in court do it all the time. This is by no means a clear cut case of black and white. To bad this has already made all the news and every player in the NFL is reading about it.

 

[john h]

He didnt show up drunk and by all accounts, and the news I have, he wasnt drinking at all. I also will tell you that he absolutly lied about what happened at first and he shouldnt have.

He was also scared though b/c the "wrestling match" was more than that. He was attacked...and was defending himself and didnt press charges coz the dude was his friend from way back.

Thats all I am willing to say except that you are way off base Nidan on this one as Pace was not drunk or acting reckless.

I wonder if anyone here has ever called in sick and went to a ballgame?

 

[clif]

If that is what the rules are that is what the rules are. However, what do most teams generally do? If it were a star I doubt they would do it. If it is a guy you want to keep you need to think it over. Is the money you save well spent? It is not always open and shut. If a lot of teams do not do this and this gets around the league then it is just another nail in the coffin of our being a cheap team. Hope our people are doing it right as I just do not know.

He has a history.. albeit not a terrible one, but he has a history of not making the best decisions. I posted it earlier. AGain he has not really done anything horrible but he has shown what I would consider a lack of judgement.

 

[john h]

Let me just say that allthough I completely agree with the Cards getting money back and believe it to be in their right to do so, I dont think this is the right situation to do so. Or at least the amount of it. I agree they should not pay him for games missed, that is already a pretty good slap on the wrist, but to make a big deal about 250K of his prorated bonus, is just silly. But I dont know the complete story so I will leave it at that.

I really do not care much about all these details of what he did or did not do. What his contract says, etc. I am interested in what is best for this team at the end of the day. Will we be better off by taking the money? Will the consequences of taking the money be overridden by other factors such as perception or losing the player? I have no idea. All I want is for us to be a better team by what ever action we do take. NFL players for the most part are not roll models and let us not pretend they are or we are going to straighten some of them out. T.O. is T.O. Randy Moss is Randy Moss. Let us not climb up on some high moral mountain and pass judgement. Do what is best for the team and I can live with it not matter what it is.

 

[Brian]

He has a history.. albeit not a terrible one, but he has a history of not making the best decisions. I posted it earlier. AGain he has not really done anything horrible but he has shown what I would consider a lack of judgement.

Please explain how he showed a lack of judgement so I understand your stance.

IMHO he didn't do ANYTHING wrong. He was hanging out with his friend and his friend got stupid, not him. Going through the glass was just an unfortunate accident, a side effect of him defending himself.

Did the Seahawks try and recoup their money from that safety (Hamlin?)that got in the fight outside the nightclub? THAT was stupid, and completely avoidable.

The only bad judgement that I can see.......well, I can't see any. I'd have lied also to protect my friend.

 

[conraddobler]

I really do not care much about all these details of what he did or did not do. What his contract says, etc. I am interested in what is best for this team at the end of the day. Will we be better off by taking the money? Will the consequences of taking the money be overridden by other factors such as perception or losing the player? I have no idea. All I want is for us to be a better team by what ever action we do take. NFL players for the most part are not roll models and let us not pretend they are or we are going to straighten some of them out. T.O. is T.O. Randy Moss is Randy Moss. Let us not climb up on some high moral mountain and pass judgement. Do what is best for the team and I can live with it not matter what it is.

 

[clif]

Please explain how he showed a lack of judgement so I understand your stance.

IMHO he didn't do ANYTHING wrong. He was hanging out with his friend and his friend got stupid, not him. Going through the glass was just an unfortunate accident, a side effect of him defending himself.

Did the Seahawks try and recoup their money from that safety (Hamlin?)that got in the fight outside the nightclub? THAT was stupid, and completely avoidable.

The only bad judgement that I can see.......well, I can't see any. I'd have lied also to protect my friend.

Sure in this particular incident.. (again only going by what LV posted since that's all we have) he should have walked away as soon as his 'friend' became the aggressor. From what LV said.. he was getting razzed about being cheap. Be the bigger man and walk away. .

 

[Russ Smith]

Until it happens it is strickly gossip folks, and not necissarily going to happen, if we were gonna do that why didnt we with Thomas Jones???

according to ESPN we DID take Jones' bonus back. It's in the story, think it's Pasquarelli, where he says the Cards have a firm policy to go after the bonus and have been consistent with this as in the Thomas Jones phone incident.

 

[JasonKGME]

according to ESPN we DID take Jones' bonus back. It's in the story, think it's Pasquarelli, where he says the Cards have a firm policy to go after the bonus and have been consistent with this as in the Thomas Jones phone incident.

Here's the quote from the article:

"Arizona has been consistent in its resolution of non-football injury incidents. In 2002, the club withheld compensation from tailback Thomas Jones after he broke his hand in an off-field incident"



Says we withheld compensation *i.e. his pay for the games missed*. does not say we took back any of his bonus.

 

[conraddobler]

Here's the quote from the article:

"Arizona has been consistent in its resolution of non-football injury incidents. In 2002, the club withheld compensation from tailback Thomas Jones after he broke his hand in an off-field incident"



Says we withheld compensation *i.e. his pay for the games missed*. does not say we took back any of his bonus.

That quote itself really dosen't resolve anything. Compensation can be bonus or salary.

It dosen't support anything one way or another.