arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
He did slow down Shaq last year...
I'm not worried about Jake...but who do we have on our roster that is BIG and STRONG.
Channel 10 news... trade?
- Thread starter Joe Mama
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He did slow down Shaq last year...
I'm not worried about Jake...but who do we have on our roster that is BIG and STRONG.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Actually, I'm more concerned with Bo's loss than Jake.
I'd agree with that.
Mike
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
Me too.
Who is going to lead our full court press.
The press was one main reason we were good last year.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
We lost all but one game against the Lakers last year.
And the one we won Big Jake didn't even play.
And the one we won Big Jake didn't even play.
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
Are you serious?
The full court press last year was horrible at times. Most of the time we used it ended up being a layup for the other team.
It worked only against a few teams that really sucked at handling the ball.
I will miss Bo Outlaw as a person not necessarily as a defender. He gave lots of energy. But sometimes he was trying to do way too much on defense and did too much running around.
Than there were times we gave up posessions simply because of the fact that somehow the ball ended up in Outlaw's hands on offense where the other team dared him to beat them.
You are right, but Bobby Jackson is the best backup point guard in the NBA. In fact he's better than the majority of the starting point guards in the league. I just had a look at Brevin Knight's numbers. I thought he was a much better three-point shooter. His career average is 15% from behind the arc.
Unless Trybanski surprises I think this trade makes the Suns a weaker team this season. We don't know if they'll make any other moves though. I doubt they do anything else before the season starts, but during the season or close to the trading deadline this will give them some flexibility.
Joe Mama
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
Knight is averaging better than 4 apg in only 16 minutes per game. That is an impressive statistic for a backup PG.
At some point this season some people said it would be very good to have a backup like Earl Boykins who could come in and control the tempo.
That's what Brevin Knight can do.
Still Knight is only 28 and has a career average of 6.6apg and almost 2spg in just 28mpg!!
At some point this season some people said it would be very good to have a backup like Earl Boykins who could come in and control the tempo.
That's what Brevin Knight can do.
Still Knight is only 28 and has a career average of 6.6apg and almost 2spg in just 28mpg!!
JCSunsfan
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I'm dumbfounded, I hate this trade.
They must have come to the conclusion that Jake will not pan out.
Until then, I am in agreement with Chap and Eric on something.
Hell hath frozen over.
They must have come to the conclusion that Jake will not pan out.
Until then, I am in agreement with Chap and Eric on something.
Hell hath frozen over.
Im don't know what to think....
Knight will be a decent backup until Barbosa is ready
Big Jake never played against big centres (remeber round 1 vs Robinson...), so thats not that much of a factor.....
But, we will miss Outlaw and people seemed to believe Big Jake has improved a lot in the offseason....
Cap wise it is ok....
I think I will have to wait and see with this one....
Knight will be a decent backup until Barbosa is ready
Big Jake never played against big centres (remeber round 1 vs Robinson...), so thats not that much of a factor.....
But, we will miss Outlaw and people seemed to believe Big Jake has improved a lot in the offseason....
Cap wise it is ok....
I think I will have to wait and see with this one....
I was shocked when I first saw this trade, but I'm starting to come around.
"The only officially recognized purpose of saving is spending"--Bill Griffiths
It seems to me that the Suns now have a hole at center, two expiring contracts of different sizes, and next year's MLE to play with, since they can now afford to take on salary for next year.
Also, by giving away Bo Outlaw, the Colangelos are pretty much forcing FJ to play Cabarkapa...which is going to hurt right now, but it will pay off down the road.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the Suns' new starting center is going to be Googs...
"The only officially recognized purpose of saving is spending"--Bill Griffiths
It seems to me that the Suns now have a hole at center, two expiring contracts of different sizes, and next year's MLE to play with, since they can now afford to take on salary for next year.
Also, by giving away Bo Outlaw, the Colangelos are pretty much forcing FJ to play Cabarkapa...which is going to hurt right now, but it will pay off down the road.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the Suns' new starting center is going to be Googs...
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
C -Voshkul/Williams/Googs/Amare/Zarko/Trybanski
PF-Amare/Googs/Zarko
SF-Marion/Zarko/Johnson/Penny
SG-Penny/Johnson/Jacobsen/Barbosa
PG-Marbury/Knight/Barbosa/Penny/Johnson
Please tell me where would Bo Outlaw fit in and get minutes?
Fans are acting like crybabies (just look at phxsuns.net) about this trade because Outlaw was a funny guy and Big Jake a dumb looking poor russian that everyone seemed to have a soft spot for keeps up their hopes for him for forever.
Neither Big Jake nor Outlaw would have gotten meaningful playing time.
Outlaw's defense was ok but nothing to be amazed at. His hustle was valueable but we have Williams, Voshkul, Jacobsen and Barbosa who are all hustle guys.
Big Jake a slow footed mountain clogging up the lanes for Marbury and Stoudemire offensively with stone hands and back problems.
He got embarassed by Okur in the Euros. I didn't see it myself but that's what I heard from everyone.
Knight will be very valueable. He isn't a scrorer but he loves to push the ball , has a nose for the ball and racks up assists. I don't care if he is injury prone. He will have very limited minutes anyway and if he was injured that would give Barbosa a chance if he can't get ahead of him in the rotation anyway.
PF-Amare/Googs/Zarko
SF-Marion/Zarko/Johnson/Penny
SG-Penny/Johnson/Jacobsen/Barbosa
PG-Marbury/Knight/Barbosa/Penny/Johnson
Please tell me where would Bo Outlaw fit in and get minutes?
Fans are acting like crybabies (just look at phxsuns.net) about this trade because Outlaw was a funny guy and Big Jake a dumb looking poor russian that everyone seemed to have a soft spot for keeps up their hopes for him for forever.
Neither Big Jake nor Outlaw would have gotten meaningful playing time.
Outlaw's defense was ok but nothing to be amazed at. His hustle was valueable but we have Williams, Voshkul, Jacobsen and Barbosa who are all hustle guys.
Big Jake a slow footed mountain clogging up the lanes for Marbury and Stoudemire offensively with stone hands and back problems.
He got embarassed by Okur in the Euros. I didn't see it myself but that's what I heard from everyone.
Knight will be very valueable. He isn't a scrorer but he loves to push the ball , has a nose for the ball and racks up assists. I don't care if he is injury prone. He will have very limited minutes anyway and if he was injured that would give Barbosa a chance if he can't get ahead of him in the rotation anyway.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
Amare 32 minutes at PF, 6 minutes at C
Marion 40 minutes at SF
Zarko 4 minutes at SF, 10 minutes at PF, 10 minutes at C
Johnson 4 minutes at SF
Googs 6 minutes at PF, 10 minutes at C
Voshkul 16 minutes at C
Williams 6 minutes at C
That might not be perfectly accurate but would already take up all minutes in the frontcourt without playing any real small ball and you could stil thin out the rotation if wanted.
Marion 40 minutes at SF
Zarko 4 minutes at SF, 10 minutes at PF, 10 minutes at C
Johnson 4 minutes at SF
Googs 6 minutes at PF, 10 minutes at C
Voshkul 16 minutes at C
Williams 6 minutes at C
That might not be perfectly accurate but would already take up all minutes in the frontcourt without playing any real small ball and you could stil thin out the rotation if wanted.
Agreed!!!
My biggest problem with this trade is getting rid of big Jake. Apparently almost everyone has forgotten, but, I saw all the games at the end of 2001-02 season where it really looked like we had a 5 who could help make us a serious contender. When he was asked what made the difference in his play - he said "I got some minuets". I hope for his sake he gets a chance to show what he can or can't do for Memphis.
Jerry West is a very savvy guy....If the Suns would have made a deal with him instead of Memphis ..... Oh well, my thoughts turn to wishes, horses & beggars riding...... time will tell - whoever that was that moved to Memphis should buy season tickets while they're still cheap.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
When Big Jake had those "big" 13/8 games he didn't have back problems and the Suns weren't even in the playoff picture.
We also didn't have a much better inside player than him like Amare.
There are so many poopy players in the NBA that played a stretch of much better games than that.
Amare needs a Vlade Divac, Brad Miller, Rasho Nesterovic type of player much more than a purely defensive minded, slow stiff who is still making all the rookie mistakes.
We also didn't have a much better inside player than him like Amare.
There are so many poopy players in the NBA that played a stretch of much better games than that.
Amare needs a Vlade Divac, Brad Miller, Rasho Nesterovic type of player much more than a purely defensive minded, slow stiff who is still making all the rookie mistakes.
Time will tell. Jake never got a chance after his back injury. If he gets a chance with Memphis and they turn into a contender with him playing, I will remember those games in 2002, and will most certainly remind anyone who wants to listen.
Originally posted by Wally
Time will tell. Jake never got a chance after his back injury. If he gets a chance with Memphis and they turn into a contender with him playing, I will remember those games in 2002, and will most certainly remind anyone who wants to listen.
Those games at the end of 2001-02 were great, but let's not forget that no less than 50% of his points during that stretch were wide-open dunks off the pick and roll. Any center could have done that. I guarantee that if this Trybanski guy gets a chance he will get those same points and then some.
Joe Mama
elindholm
edited for content
The problem with all of this Tsakalidis-bashing, slinslin, is that Trybanski has shown absolutely no indication that he'll be any better. In his NBA career so far, he has shown less than zero. I found a couple of exhibition (or summer league?) box scores and he was awful in those too. And it doesn't make any sense to say that he has more "potential," because he's basically the same age as Tsakalidis.
This is the same old story of the Suns expecting to find a gem in someone else's garbage. They are constantly picking up no-talent big men that another team has thrown on the scrap heap, thinking that somehow the player will magically blossom when he puts on a Suns uniform.
Tsakalidis wasn't good. Let's be clear about that. But he had spent three years learning the Suns' system, shown occasional promise, and even delivered big performances once in a while (particularly defending O'Neal). So far, Trybanski is just as old and with far less accomplishment. And to say that someone is far less accomplished than Tsakalidis is pretty low.
Regarding the Outlaw/Knight part of the deal, I could go either way on that. Neither will play much. Outlaw was a great locker room presence, but that probably isn't worth the $5.4 million he'd make next season. So that's a wash.
The problem is that the Suns forfeited Tsakalidis to the Grizzlies just to get Outlaw's 2004-05 salary off their hands. That's potentially a very high price to pay for a few million dollars. I hope that this decision doesn't come back to haunt the Suns, but I think it's quite likely that Tsakalidis will prove to be a better "true" center than anyone the Suns will have in the next five years.
This is the same old story of the Suns expecting to find a gem in someone else's garbage. They are constantly picking up no-talent big men that another team has thrown on the scrap heap, thinking that somehow the player will magically blossom when he puts on a Suns uniform.
Tsakalidis wasn't good. Let's be clear about that. But he had spent three years learning the Suns' system, shown occasional promise, and even delivered big performances once in a while (particularly defending O'Neal). So far, Trybanski is just as old and with far less accomplishment. And to say that someone is far less accomplished than Tsakalidis is pretty low.
Regarding the Outlaw/Knight part of the deal, I could go either way on that. Neither will play much. Outlaw was a great locker room presence, but that probably isn't worth the $5.4 million he'd make next season. So that's a wash.
The problem is that the Suns forfeited Tsakalidis to the Grizzlies just to get Outlaw's 2004-05 salary off their hands. That's potentially a very high price to pay for a few million dollars. I hope that this decision doesn't come back to haunt the Suns, but I think it's quite likely that Tsakalidis will prove to be a better "true" center than anyone the Suns will have in the next five years.
But it wasn't just the points. Jake's defense was very, very good and getting better. When he was in the game it slowed the other team down and made them change their shots. It took them out of their game. The Suns lost a ton of defense by losing Bo and Jake. Oh well, I guess they are trying to be just like the Mavericks, score like crazy but can't defend anybody.
elindholm
edited for content
I guarantee that if this Trybanski guy gets a chance he will get those same points and then some.
Don't be too sure. Based on the limited stats I've found, Trybanski is an absolutely horrendous free-throw shooter, below 50%. Unless that improves dramatically, opposing teams will just put him on the line rather than give him a dunk. Then he'll hardly be scoring at all.
Tsakalidis is a career 66% free-throw shooter. That's hardly stellar, but it's enough to make defenses think twice about hacking him.
Don't be too sure. Based on the limited stats I've found, Trybanski is an absolutely horrendous free-throw shooter, below 50%. Unless that improves dramatically, opposing teams will just put him on the line rather than give him a dunk. Then he'll hardly be scoring at all.
Tsakalidis is a career 66% free-throw shooter. That's hardly stellar, but it's enough to make defenses think twice about hacking him.
scotsman13
Registered User
do you really think that jerry west is as good as the suns are at spotting talent? gooden vs. amare. i personally dont know people get the idea that west is good except he has been at the top of a winning team and he was a great player. other then that what was his last great draft pick. you know the diamond in the ruff? looking at that trade and the fact that it may bring us somewhere around 7 to 8 million under the cap next year along with the fact that if anyone out there things that this is the suns year to win a championship they need a CAT scan. leads me to believe that the suns have some idea of what they are doing. even more so after watching "big (hands of stone) jake" play during the past 2 summers.
here are some of the players that they suns have found in the draft over the last 15 years. finley, marion, person, nash, amare, ford, horny, dumas, ceballos, knight, etc. the lakers (west) have found ....... jones and divac. can you even think of another laker draft pick that isnt from last year?
here are some of the players that they suns have found in the draft over the last 15 years. finley, marion, person, nash, amare, ford, horny, dumas, ceballos, knight, etc. the lakers (west) have found ....... jones and divac. can you even think of another laker draft pick that isnt from last year?
elindholm
edited for content
looking at that trade and the fact that it may bring us somewhere around 7 to 8 million under the cap next year
It will be about half this much in savings, and it certainly won't be under the cap. The Suns will not be under the cap this decade.
It will be about half this much in savings, and it certainly won't be under the cap. The Suns will not be under the cap this decade.
