Channel 10 news... trade?
- Thread starter Joe Mama
- Start date
One question: why is that Trybanski dude making so much money? He should be getting the minimum.
I would guess Archibald will be released, and I wouldn't be surprised if Trybanski doesn't make the team either. The Suns just wanted to unload Outlaw's contract and apparently had no intention of resigning Big Jake either. They didn't care who they were getting in return. Knight will be servicable, but that's about all the Suns wil get from this trade, that and a few millions saved, though i don't see how that directly translates to cap flexibility.
If the Suns knew they were gonna unload Big Jake and wanted to improve their center rotation while at it, why not swing a deal for Drobnjak that the Clippers got for a second round pick? This trade was in no way intended to improve the team, and may end up being detrimental.
I would guess Archibald will be released, and I wouldn't be surprised if Trybanski doesn't make the team either. The Suns just wanted to unload Outlaw's contract and apparently had no intention of resigning Big Jake either. They didn't care who they were getting in return. Knight will be servicable, but that's about all the Suns wil get from this trade, that and a few millions saved, though i don't see how that directly translates to cap flexibility.
If the Suns knew they were gonna unload Big Jake and wanted to improve their center rotation while at it, why not swing a deal for Drobnjak that the Clippers got for a second round pick? This trade was in no way intended to improve the team, and may end up being detrimental.
hcsilla
ASFN Lifer
Yes, that happened from Suns' viewpoint.
Archibald is a throw-in and Knight won't contribute more than Outlaw did.
BTW, I like Knight, he is a nice, hard-working, 1st pass PG but he will hardly contribute more than Outlaw had plus Knight is injury prone.
I agree again.
About the Tsakaildis-Trzybanski swap:
Trybanski was a NOBODY in Europe.Even the craziest Eurobaskets fans haven't any idea about him.
He was a role player for a "nothing special" polish team. He wasn't a polish national player.
I never understood why West gave him a 5 mil./3 year contract maybe he saw something in Trybanski which anyone else did not.
Right now Tsakalidis HAS TO BE a MUCH better player than Trybanski because Tsakalidis is a starting C for a much better european national team while Trybanski is not a national player.
Since we all know how good is Tsakalidis this fact determines how big will be Trybanski's impact on Suns' play this coming season.
It will be ZERO I'm sure.
Only for the record I saw 2 games of the greek national team in Eurobasket and Tsakalidis was their starting C.
Big Jake was much bigger than his opponents and he still had difficulties with the low-post scoring.
He was a more important factor of their defense but he usually got quick fouls partially because of the different officiating in Europe.
All in all he seemed to be more athletic but it was hardly imaginable that he will become more than a role-playing borderline starter C in NBA----which is definitely more than you can expect from Trybanski right now and in the future as well.
So Suns got a decent backup PG for 6 minutes/game in 40-50 games of the season-- and lost Outlaw.
They got a C prospect who will probably never earn a roster spot in NBA once when his contract will expire---and lost Tsakalidis.
They dumped Outlaw's last year's salary which is welcomed in my eyes and they reduced their team pay-roll to about 50 mil. in the next offseason which frees up the possibility to sign a significant FA next offseason without paying the luxury tax.
That deal was similar to the Robinson-trade where Suns sacrified talent for saving some millions.
In this actual trade there is at least some hope that Suns will use the saved money for signing of a decent FA in 2004.
Colangelos are seeming to be more profit-oriented than most of people on this board thought.
Chaplin
Better off silent
One, I don't like the trade, but I am starting to get fed up with the way people like slinslin have taken upon themselves to talk down to the rest of us who don't like the trade. He has his reasons to like it, fine, but that's no reason to be an a-hole about it.
This trade is a disaster for us. It might put us in a better position next summer, but by how much, really? Googs was already going to be gone by then, and Bo's salary, while high, was going to go down, not up. Sure, we'd have to worry about resigning Jake, but if we did resign him, then obviously he would have showed that he's worth resigning in the first place, right? So we'll save 3.5, maybe 4 million dollars next year. So what? That's not even the amount of the MLE. That's about 1/3 of what Steph will be making this year alone.
This guy Tryblinski or whatever has NO reputation. Not even slinslin, who likes the trade can say anything about him. hcsilla has further demonstrated that point with his last post. Tryblinski and Archibald together aren't worth any of our players. Right now, based on past performances (or lack thereof) they are actually worse than Dan Langhi! And that's pretty bad.
So it comes down to Brevin Knight and worse-than-Dan Langhi for Jake and Bo.
And that is one of the worst trades I've EVER seen. We weren't that hard up for a backup point guard.
This trade is a disaster for us. It might put us in a better position next summer, but by how much, really? Googs was already going to be gone by then, and Bo's salary, while high, was going to go down, not up. Sure, we'd have to worry about resigning Jake, but if we did resign him, then obviously he would have showed that he's worth resigning in the first place, right? So we'll save 3.5, maybe 4 million dollars next year. So what? That's not even the amount of the MLE. That's about 1/3 of what Steph will be making this year alone.
This guy Tryblinski or whatever has NO reputation. Not even slinslin, who likes the trade can say anything about him. hcsilla has further demonstrated that point with his last post. Tryblinski and Archibald together aren't worth any of our players. Right now, based on past performances (or lack thereof) they are actually worse than Dan Langhi! And that's pretty bad.
So it comes down to Brevin Knight and worse-than-Dan Langhi for Jake and Bo.
And that is one of the worst trades I've EVER seen. We weren't that hard up for a backup point guard.
Chaplin
Better off silent
EXACTLY.
I can just see the headline...
Suns Trade Starting Center and top Energy Defender for backup point guard and Big Bucket of Memphis Barbeque
BC says it gives us more flexibility. Flexibility to do what, exactly?
Usually, when I think on a trade more and more, the more it becomes ok. In this case, it is not. I seem to be getting angrier and angrier.
Maybe this thread should be in the Bird Droppings forum. Wait a sec, Bird Droppings make more sense.
KK Chub
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Well, try as I might, I just can't find anything good about this trade. I can't see where shaving less than $1,000,000.00 off the books is really going to make much of a difference financially. I don't see a need for another PG, especially one whose numbers are nothing to get excited about and who appears to have injury issues.
Nor do we need a forward who is a veritable unknown rookie and whose numbers also leave me unimpressed, to replace Bo who may have had some bad moments, but was also the spark we needed many times when our game started to slow. Whose personality and chutzpah helped to coalesce the team and build its chemistry.
As for this young center who I have never heard of until tonight, he might-- and I do stress the word might--pan out and become a force to be reckoned with someday, but who knows when that will be, and why are we taking on another project center when we already had one who was showing good progress before his back went out? One who gave us a big body to go up against the likes of Shaq, Yao, etc.. This other guy is 7'1" but he's only about 250 lbs.
Small ball is all I see right now for our future, and that saddens me to no end. There is nothing that can make this trade alright in my eyes, if anything I feel like the revolving door has been reopened. They should have left it alone for another season, let the chemistry build and they should have given Jake a fair chance to prove himself after his surgery last year. Period!
Nor do we need a forward who is a veritable unknown rookie and whose numbers also leave me unimpressed, to replace Bo who may have had some bad moments, but was also the spark we needed many times when our game started to slow. Whose personality and chutzpah helped to coalesce the team and build its chemistry.
As for this young center who I have never heard of until tonight, he might-- and I do stress the word might--pan out and become a force to be reckoned with someday, but who knows when that will be, and why are we taking on another project center when we already had one who was showing good progress before his back went out? One who gave us a big body to go up against the likes of Shaq, Yao, etc.. This other guy is 7'1" but he's only about 250 lbs.
Small ball is all I see right now for our future, and that saddens me to no end. There is nothing that can make this trade alright in my eyes, if anything I feel like the revolving door has been reopened. They should have left it alone for another season, let the chemistry build and they should have given Jake a fair chance to prove himself after his surgery last year. Period!
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3rdside
Hall of Famer
Chaplin, I don't want to upset you but, no offence, many of your posts convey the exact feeling your getting upset at slin slin for. It seems a touch hypocritical to me. When slinslin and hcsilla get pis*ed at ya (and i'm sure most everyone else has seen you guys go at it sometimes) then this is the reason. You tend to be a bit a-holeish in your opinion as well sometimes.
As for the trade, does clearing this room mean we can sign someone for the MLE/ or sign a player period? I intially thought this was a pretty good trade but after reading your's and jj's/kk's opinion, I'm beginning to think otherwise.
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
I do not like this trade.
Bo meant a lot to this team, chemistry wise and defense wise.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
This isn't inconsistent with past years. The Suns center rotation usually consists of Forwards for most of the game.
Ironically the only time we had a true Center on the floor during 4th quarters was when Rick Robey was brought in to play Power Forward.
Edwards was usually in there near the end, but he played offense 20 feet away from the basket.
Nope, it's not inconsistent at all.
With the game on the line, our Center rotation is going to be Amare!
schutd
ASFN Addict
Heh. No one. No one in the enitre league guards Shaq.
schutd
ASFN Addict
And it was also readily apparent that Bo was oftentimes WAY out of position defensivley becasue he would jump out on anybody with the ball, at anytime, leaving his man open.
Its a wash. Hate to see a good guy go, but we're not going to lose any games because of his absence, IMHO.
schutd
ASFN Addict
And go ahead and mark the date and time here as well. Slin and I are in 100% agreement.
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
Ok then...you guys said the Bo's absense will not mean playing wise...what about chemisrtry wise?
schutd
ASFN Addict
I see your point, but I dont put as much weight in that as you apparently. Sure its a loss from a lockeroom standpoint. But oin matters of business, lockeroom presence is rarely accounted for. Especially when the team is losing 10 + mil a season.
Its a business move. One that might hurt now, but helps the financial health of the organization in the future. And an instable franchise will give us all far more headahces as fans in the future than the immediate impact of the Outlaw loss.
And again, I dont believe we'll lose OR win any more games without Outlaw. I wish him and Jake well.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
The only thing I like about this trade is that we dumped Outlaw's contract. I like Bo as much as you guys do, but his contract was terrible.
As far as Jake goes, I don't understand why C's just gave him away. I thought we could get more in return than Brevin Knight and a couple of nobodys.
I don't like the trade, UNLESS Colangelo has another trade or FA signing in mind.
As far as Jake goes, I don't understand why C's just gave him away. I thought we could get more in return than Brevin Knight and a couple of nobodys.
I don't like the trade, UNLESS Colangelo has another trade or FA signing in mind.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
It is a wonder we were able to get Brevin Knight for Outlaw and Big Jake.
Not really because it is Knight but because he has an expiring contract.
Earlier many of you were saying that nobody in the league would take on Outlaw's contract and give us an expiring one.
Not really because it is Knight but because he has an expiring contract.
Earlier many of you were saying that nobody in the league would take on Outlaw's contract and give us an expiring one.
Now who's going overboard. "One of the worst trades EVER seen." Surely you must be joking.
Let's get something straight. For the Phoenix Suns this was not a move made to improve personnel. It was a move to save money. If I remember correctly last year the Phoenix Suns reported a $2 million loss in revenue. This season with Shawn Marion's extension that is expected to jump to $20-25 million in the red ink.
This season Brevin Knight, Trybanski, and Archibald will combine to make around $7 million. I doubt Archibald's contract is guaranteed for this season though. Basic second-round contracts are usually only guaranteed for the first season (team option). Bo Outlaw and Big Jake will make a combined $6.5 million. So this season the trade really does not save the Phoenix Suns any money. In fact it may cost them a couple hundred thousand dollars.
But the true savings come next season. Yes, Tom Gugliotta's salary comes off the books this summer, but before this trade the Suns salary next season would have been around $53 million. And that doesn't include re-signing Jake Tsakalidis (restricted free agent). Now, after the trade, next year's team's salary looks to be around $48 million.
That means they stand to save $5 million in salary. $53 million salary would have put them dangerously close to the luxury tax. If they wanted to re-sign Jake Tsakalidis they would have been in luxury tax territory. That would have cost them at least an additional $5 million. That's $10 million in savings. If you assume it would have taken at least $1.5 million per season to re-sign Big Jake that's another $3 million in savings.
That's a lot of money, especially for a team posting losses.
You mean like Jake Voskuhl? What other "garbage" have the Colangelos expected big things from when they were signed or traded to the Phoenix Suns? Come on Eric. I don't think anybody in the Phoenix Suns organization is expecting Trybanski to be a gem. At least they haven't indicated anything like that so far. They made the move for salary reasons and to get a decent backup point guard to move the offense when Marbury is on the bench.
I think slin has been a little bit harsh regarding his assessments of Jake and Bo Outlaw, but much of it has been pretty accurate. The only guys Big Jake can really defend at all are the bigger, slower centers in the NBA. Even many of those guys still eat him alive. The smaller, faster centers were telling him a new one night in and night out. On the other end of the court, well, I really don't even have to go there. Big Jake was a negative factor on offense. Every once in awhile he was able to get a put back were shot put an "hook shot" into the basket. Nobody can deny that it was ugly and difficult watch.
As far as Outlaw goes on long board with Schudt and slin. I think the team will miss Bo Outlaw , but for all the good things he did Bo also did a lot of things poorly. We all know he had a minimal offensive presence. And like schudt pointed out already he had a real tendency to get out of position on defense because of his aggressiveness.
BTW I congratulate you if you made it through this entire post.
It was much longer than I expected.Joe Mama
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elindholm
edited for content
Especially when the team is losing 10 + mil a season.
They might lose that kind of money this season, thanks to Gugliotta. But this is the only year that the Suns will be way over the luxury tax. For 2004-05, they were at around $53 million before the trade went through. (Edit: Not $51 million as I originally wrote.) That isn't so bad.
The Suns will still get hammered by the luxury tax this season.
Also, Outlaw was (and is) a very good candidate to get picked up in next summer's expansion draft. There's a decent chance that the Suns could have gotten out of the last year of his deal anyway.
They might lose that kind of money this season, thanks to Gugliotta. But this is the only year that the Suns will be way over the luxury tax. For 2004-05, they were at around $53 million before the trade went through. (Edit: Not $51 million as I originally wrote.) That isn't so bad.
The Suns will still get hammered by the luxury tax this season.
Also, Outlaw was (and is) a very good candidate to get picked up in next summer's expansion draft. There's a decent chance that the Suns could have gotten out of the last year of his deal anyway.
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schutd
ASFN Addict
Thats an assumption. You dont normally abide by using logic based on assumption. Only when you disapprove?
scotsman13
Registered User
guys look at it like this. this off season the suns will remove knights 5 million, williams 1 million, googs 11.7 million, and maybe (i hope) hardaways 14.6 million (in the expantion draft). that brings the suns down to around 18 million with hardway gone around 32 million. that would place the suns well under the cap. the suns are at 63 million this year. wow that would place the suns well under the cap at 54 and may bring them to the point that they are free of the match point on the cba. that means if they are over that pointever dollar they are over they must match. so around 10 million dollors. then this off season we can go out and sign someone like mehmet okur who own big jake in europe this summer.
that means we have the room to keep marbury, marion, amare and joe johnson plus build around them a good team. in the next couple year shaq will be gone and the only center out there that might cause us any problems is yoa and his biggest point is his outside play. it has come down to the fact that hands of stone is a player with limited value and high costs that the suns couldnt afford.
that means we have the room to keep marbury, marion, amare and joe johnson plus build around them a good team. in the next couple year shaq will be gone and the only center out there that might cause us any problems is yoa and his biggest point is his outside play. it has come down to the fact that hands of stone is a player with limited value and high costs that the suns couldnt afford.
elindholm
edited for content
but before this trade the Suns salary next season would have been around $53 million.
I thought it was $51 million. Am I overlooking someone? Don't forget that the Suns have now added Trybanski's salary for 2004-5, which is $1.76 million.
What other "garbage" have a Colangelos expected to big things from when they signed or were traded to the Phoenix Suns?
Danny Schayes and Dan Langhi are two recent glaring examples. Both were untalented big men who "could shoot." Well, no, actually they couldn't.
Regarding Voskuhl, the Suns gave up almost nothing for him -- Soumaila Samake and a second-round pick.
I thought it was $51 million. Am I overlooking someone? Don't forget that the Suns have now added Trybanski's salary for 2004-5, which is $1.76 million.
What other "garbage" have a Colangelos expected to big things from when they signed or were traded to the Phoenix Suns?
Danny Schayes and Dan Langhi are two recent glaring examples. Both were untalented big men who "could shoot." Well, no, actually they couldn't.
Regarding Voskuhl, the Suns gave up almost nothing for him -- Soumaila Samake and a second-round pick.
elindholm
edited for content
I thought it was $51 million. Am I overlooking someone?
Whoops, yes I am. I'm overlooking Joe Johnson. I always forget that HoopsHype doesn't include team options in its total.
$53 million is correct, sorry. Still, the savings is only $3.6 million, because the Suns will still have to pay Trybanski.
Whoops, yes I am. I'm overlooking Joe Johnson. I always forget that HoopsHype doesn't include team options in its total.
$53 million is correct, sorry. Still, the savings is only $3.6 million, because the Suns will still have to pay Trybanski.
elindholm
edited for content
Thats an assumption. You dont normally abide by using logic based on assumption.
It's not an assumption to assess it as likely. I think it is likely. It would be an assumption if I said it was going to happen.
Would you rather have $10 or a 50-50 chance to win $50? Estimating the likelihood of a financial outcome is fair game.
It's not an assumption to assess it as likely. I think it is likely. It would be an assumption if I said it was going to happen.
Would you rather have $10 or a 50-50 chance to win $50? Estimating the likelihood of a financial outcome is fair game.
slinslin
Welcome to Amareca
The Suns will also likely have a first round pick next season maybe even 2 if Cleveland does well.
Plus the Suns will want to go shopping in the offseason.
Plus the Suns will want to go shopping in the offseason.
