D-Backs and Pirates Series Thread

[Kel Varnsen]

Wait, you don't pitch inside late in a game? What? If Goldy is leaning out over the plate, he should know to watch out

Maybe an unwritten rule? I'm not familiar with it.

Also, Frieri is on the verge of being cut because he has been so bad. If a ball ends up inside, he was probably aiming outside.

 

[Mulli]

The pointing of the middle finger was no doubt the official sign to throw at Cutch...
There was nothing embarrassing at all with what took place. The fact that they waited too long to hit Cutch can be questioned (and may have had something to do with Gibby being tossed early in the game), but most definitely not embarrassing.
There are plenty of other reasons to be embarrassed about this team... this ain't one of them...

And you defended plenty of those as well, Kevin Tower's brother.

 

[Dback Jon]

Especially, when 82's guy Towers fired the pitching coach when the team didn't hit enough guys to his liking.

So why are the Pirates and their head-hunting staff getting a free pass in all of this?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

The pointing of the middle finger was no doubt the official sign to throw at Cutch...
There was nothing embarrassing at all with what took place. The fact that they waited too long to hit Cutch can be questioned (and may have had something to do with Gibby being tossed early in the game), but most definitely not embarrassing.
There are plenty of other reasons to be embarrassed about this team... this ain't one of them...

Not embarrassed about them retaliating...that's part of the game (although I don't think it was warranted here). Embarrassed about a catcher throwing a middle finger out there like that. I've never seen that before and find it to be juvenile.

 

[Mulli]

So why are the Pirates and their head-hunting staff getting a free pass in all of this?

to torment you and 82, conspirators in all of this.

 

[Dback Jon]

to torment you and 82, conspirators in all of this.

 

[unseenaz]

According to another PIRATES message board the middle finger is SOP for a beanball.

 

[Mulli]

You must be registered for see images

just found this

 

[Kel Varnsen]

They're discussing this on Deadspin right now. I thought this comment was pretty funny:

Nix intentionally hit Ahmed in retaliation for Delgado hitting McCutchen in retaliation for Frieri hitting Goldschmidt in retaliation for Pence not being able to parallel park.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Wait, you don't pitch inside late in a game? What? If Goldy is leaning out over the plate, he should know to watch out

Yep... the game was out of hand. The pitcher should've known better. 1 out, bottom of the 9th and leading by 5 runs...

 

[Mulli]

Yep... the game was out of hand. The pitcher should've known better. 1 out, bottom of the 9th and leading by 5 runs...

That is a new one. Does the team playing the Dbacks have to factor in how terrible the Dbacks are? If you are up 5 on the Dsnacks after the first, are you obliged to stop pitching inside?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Also, if a game is out of hand and you're one of the worst teams in baseball with a lot of roster decisions to be made soon, wouldn't that be a good time to give a young guy a pinch-hitting opportunity?

 

[82CardsGrad]

That is a new one. Does the team playing the Dbacks have to factor in how terrible the Dbacks are? If you are up 5 on the Dsnacks after the first, are you obliged to stop pitching inside?

Oh, you can choose to continue to pitch inside... but you do so with the risk that comes with it. Every pitcher knows that when pitching inside (those that choose to do so), you run the risk of hitting the batter. Now, guys like Ryan, Gibson and others didn't give a crap - which was partly why they were so great. But today, many pitchers chicken out and are therefore mush less effective.
Anyway, as a pitcher, you want to run that risk - go for it. But if/when you hit a guy - particularly the sole stud on a team, in the bottom of the 9th with one out in a blow-out, you can absolutely expect retaliation... and FWIW, this isn't new, nor is it a surprise to any major leaguer...

 

[82CardsGrad]

Also, if a game is out of hand and you're one of the worst teams in baseball with a lot of roster decisions to be made soon, wouldn't that be a good time to give a young guy a pinch-hitting opportunity?

Pinch hit for Goldy?? Now I know you've lost your mind...

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Pinch hit for Goldy?? Now I know you've lost your mind...

If the game's out of hand, why not? You know he's good. You don't know who else on your roster is, though.

 

[AZ Native]

Interesting stuff. I have a few observations.

Their pitcher had a 10 ERA, hardly the stuff pinpoint accuracy is made of.

It was the first time in a long time I saw Delgado hit his target.

We should therefore paint the number 22 on Miggy's glove and tell Delgado to hit it.

I have gone into a deep depression about Goldy's injury, seriously.

Ahmed's slide was legit.

I'm going to 3 games this week and am guessing I can buy cheap tickets outside the gate.

I don't care what anyone else in baseball thinks of the DBacks right now.

 

[crisper57]

Okay, I was a Gibby guy, but I can't support him anymore. Under his tenure, the DBacks are perceived as either a) whiners or b) the dirtiest team in baseball.

I can't support this team or its management as it currently stands. They don't play the game the right way and they certainly don't handle the enforcement of "unwritten rules" correctly either. They look to be out to hurt someone, rather than send a message. AND it usually takes 2 or 3 attempts before they even get the "message" right!

They are an embarrassment, and not just because of the standings.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Okay, I was a Gibby guy, but I can't support him anymore. Under his tenure, the DBacks are perceived as either a) whiners or b) the dirtiest team in baseball.

I can't support this team or its management as it currently stands. They don't play the game the right way and they certainly don't handle the enforcement of "unwritten rules" correctly either. They look to be out to hurt someone, rather than send a message. AND it usually takes 2 or 3 attempts before they even get the "message" right!

They are an embarrassment, and not just because of the standings.

As I said, hitting Cutch was completely expected... The mismanagement of the unwritten rules is a very good point and is highlighted by the fact that they hit Cutch so late in the game.
I'm surprised at how bad Gibby appears to be at managing this sort of stuff... particularly with Trammel at his side. They both played the game for decades. They should know better and be better at this sort of stuff.
They appear to be decent at managing the spirit of the team, but when it comes to the mechanics and logistics associated with managing and leading a team, they do seem to be over their heads...

 

[Mulli]

Gibby and Trammel just don't seem the same since those kids started walking on their lawns.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[crisper57]

As I said, hitting Cutch was completely expected... The mismanagement of the unwritten rules is a very good point and is highlighted by the fact that they hit Cutch so late in the game.
I'm surprised at how bad Gibby appears to be at managing this sort of stuff... particularly with Trammel at his side. They both played the game for decades. They should know better and be better at this sort of stuff.
They appear to be decent at managing the spirit of the team, but when it comes to the mechanics and logistics associated with managing and leading a team, they do seem to be over their heads...

Yeah, I don't mind players enforcing themselves. That is actually a part of the game I am sad to see dying out. You hit ours, we hit yours, and then the matter is settled. Just settle accounts quickly. Do it in the next inning, or at the latest, the first inning of the next game. Don't let it linger, and you certainly don't hold it over an opponent's star through multiple at-bats.

To me, that's loads better than an umpire injecting his ego into the dispute, which will result in ejections and suspensions that may linger well after the issue is over.

But the D-Backs seem to have this pathological desire to make opponents fear them. Since they are not doing that in the standings, they talk openly about hitting other teams and then pick their spots to deliver the cheapest of shots. There is only one way to describe it: cowardly.

And they are doing more than any other team to put the final nail into the coffin of the "unwritten rules". They abuse it, so it becomes less acceptable.

 

[Brian]

That is a new one. Does the team playing the Dbacks have to factor in how terrible the Dbacks are? If you are up 5 on the Dsnacks after the first, are you obliged to stop pitching inside?

Honest question: Do you even watch D-Backs games? I only ask because your comments on here lead me to believe you don't.

Every pitcher in MLB pitches to Goldy down and away nearly 90% of the time. I very rarely see any pitcher pitch Goldy inside because he has proven those balls are going 400 feet out to left field.

No, if you are up 5 after the first you are obviously not obliged to stop pitching inside. If you are up 5-1 with one out in the bottom of the ninth and the catcher sets up inside and the end result is that you break the hand of the other teams star player you can bet your sweet ass that your star player is going to get drilled.

I believe the result of Frieri's pitch was an accident and unintentional. Pitching inside to Goldy in that scenario was an unnecessary risk. It was pointless.

Either way, Goldy got drilled so McCutchen got drilled. It should be over.

I still wish it was Martin that got hit. Can't stand that guy.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yeah, I don't mind players enforcing themselves. That is actually a part of the game I am sad to see dying out. You hit ours, we hit yours, and then the matter is settled. Just settle accounts quickly. Do it in the next inning, or at the latest, the first inning of the next game. Don't let it linger, and you certainly don't hold it over an opponent's star through multiple at-bats.

To me, that's loads better than an umpire injecting his ego into the dispute, which will result in ejections and suspensions that may linger well after the issue is over.

Totally and completely agree...

But the D-Backs seem to have this pathological desire to make opponents fear them. Since they are not doing that in the standings, they talk openly about hitting other teams and then pick their spots to deliver the cheapest of shots. There is only one way to describe it: cowardly.

And they are doing more than any other team to put the final nail into the coffin of the "unwritten rules". They abuse it, so it becomes less acceptable.

I dunno... I honestly haven't heard the players talk much, if at all, about this stuff... Seems to me it's more from KT (and even there I haven't heard anything from him about this topic since last season).
I honestly don't see how/where the team is out to make other teams "fear them"... I could be wrong I guess, but I just don't see it. I see a team that is woefully under-talented. A team that is poorly led by a manager who seems incapable of dealing with the tactical side of the game.
A team that also possesses an incapable coaching staff. Hitters and pitchers don't improve - UNTIL they leave the team!
But, making other teams fear them?? I really just don't see that at all...

 

[Brian]

Yeah, I don't mind players enforcing themselves. That is actually a part of the game I am sad to see dying out. You hit ours, we hit yours, and then the matter is settled. Just settle accounts quickly. Do it in the next inning, or at the latest, the first inning of the next game. Don't let it linger, and you certainly don't hold it over an opponent's star through multiple at-bats.

To me, that's loads better than an umpire injecting his ego into the dispute, which will result in ejections and suspensions that may linger well after the issue is over.

But the D-Backs seem to have this pathological desire to make opponents fear them. Since they are not doing that in the standings, they talk openly about hitting other teams and then pick their spots to deliver the cheapest of shots. There is only one way to describe it: cowardly.

And they are doing more than any other team to put the final nail into the coffin of the "unwritten rules". They abuse it, so it becomes less acceptable.

Mostly agree. Like I said earlier, I told my wife it was coming and I said to her that I hoped it didn't. Not at that point.

I say that to her alot.

 

[crisper57]

I honestly don't see how/where the team is out to make other teams "fear them"... I could be wrong I guess, but I just don't see it. I see a team that is woefully under-talented. A team that is poorly led by a manager who seems incapable of dealing with the tactical side of the game.
A team that also possesses an incapable coaching staff.

But, making other teams fear them?? I really just don't see that at all...

They say it is "gritty", I say it is "grimy".

 

[Mulli]

Honest question: Do you even watch D-Backs games? I only ask because your comments on here lead me to believe you don't.

Every pitcher in MLB pitches to Goldy down and away nearly 90% of the time. I very rarely see any pitcher pitch Goldy inside because he has proven those balls are going 400 feet out to left field.

No, if you are up 5 after the first you are obviously not obliged to stop pitching inside. If you are up 5-1 with one out in the bottom of the ninth and the catcher sets up inside and the end result is that you break the hand of the other teams star player you can bet your sweet ass that your star player is going to get drilled.

I believe the result of Frieri's pitch was an accident and unintentional. Pitching inside to Goldy in that scenario was an unnecessary risk. It was pointless.

Either way, Goldy got drilled so McCutchen got drilled. It should be over.

I still wish it was Martin that got hit. Can't stand that guy.

I think you missed the terrible joke that I was making. No, I don't see many Dsnacks games, but I am not seeing what that has to do with much. I guess I see why Dbacks fans are mad, but I am not so sure about getting mad at pitcher for pitching inside to set up the low and aways or whatever.

As for the rest, I agree with what you say.