Dare I say the "T" word . . . ?

[BC867]

Lol... the lack of self awareness in saying that last sentence from the guy who ******* ABOUT COLANGELO ad naseum, usually unprovoked pretty damn funny.

You're right! I've gone overboard in praising JC for his skills and calling him out for his lack of skills. Both in establishing the "finesse" tag that the Suns have carried for 50 years and for turning the Suns over to a two-bit banker who considered himself to be a GM.

But my comment was in response to, "You, Chaplin, and MS need to start your own thread called "Complainers that hate the draft"...and vacate over to it."

Since when do we support denying posters from posting a response on a thread? "Start your own thread ... and vacate over to it?" No!

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're right! I've gone overboard in praising JC for his skills and calling him out for his lack of skills. Both in establishing the "finesse" tag that the Suns have carried for 50 years and for turning the Suns over to a two-bit banker who considered himself to be a GM.

But my comment was in response to, "You, Chaplin, and MS need to start your own thread called "Complainers that hate the draft"...and vacate over to it."

Since when do we support denying posters from posting a response on a thread? "Start your own thread ... and vacate over to it? No!

Lol... you've gone OVERBOARD praising JC's skills.

It's amazes me anyone can be so delusional about themselves.

 

[BC867]

Whenever I see a poster attacking the poster rather than the issue, I know he's grasping for straws.

It reminds me of an old saying . . .

Outstanding communicators discuss concepts.

Average communicators discuss issues.

Unskilled communicators discuss other people.

I would never either tell another poster where or what to post or call him delusional because I have a different opinion.

The issue is about establishing a losing culture for young players in hopes of getting lucky in the draft year after year. 'Hardly a proactive management approach.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouchie entitled this thread, "Dare I say the "T" word . . . ?", which ends in a question mark. Even if it didn't, every thread discusses the pro's and con's of an issue.

Are you really mandating that anyone with an opposing opinion to the subject of a thread, or any post to it, should start a new thread in order to respond (and disagree), post by post.

Nah, I know you know better than that. And I know you know better than dictating what responses are allowable to a particular point of view. Perhaps if you didn't keep repeating the same point over and over, we wouldn't be tempted to respond.

Surely you recognize that watching our Suns define themselves as lovable losers season after season is not a "good time" for 2 1/2 hours in front of the TV or paying to attend a game, pay for parking, etc. Especially when the Suns start the season with the worst defeat in our 50 season history.

I tried to open my mind to the concept of tanking toward the end of last season and posted so. But I think the only plan the Suns have under the current regime is to to buy time. Season after season. Having spent over thirty-five years in upper middle management, that, to me, is lazy (or unskilled) management and Suns fans deserve better.

Man BC with this upcoming draft loaded with big men I’d think you’d be salivating at a tank this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

The issue is about establishing a losing culture for young players in hopes of getting lucky in the draft year after year. 'Hardly a proactive management approach.

BC is on target about this.

The Suns have lost so much all the fans have to look forward to is the draft.

 

[95pro]

Won't we still lose the draft when we get the '1' seed, aren't the odds equal now for 1-3?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

WE ARE so

Won't we still lose the draft when we get the '1' seed, aren't the odds equal now for 1-3?

nope. Next year.

We are as epically bad as I can EVER recall for a suns team.

 

[pokerface]

I'm fine with tanking but that's not what the Suns are doing, they're just awful and it's not enjoyable to watch. Tanking is something that should be reserved for the 2nd half of the season. We really shouldn't be excited to see this team get steamrolled over and over in their first 3-4 games of the years. Our young players aren't playing well, our coaching sucks, our ball movement is awful, and our defense is atrocious. This isn't tanking by choice, even if you try to view it that way it doesn't make it correct. I'm neither pro-tank or anti-tank but this is just embarrassing basketball.

Tanking is a subtle and not so subtle thing. If you trade a player knowing it could cost games short term...to me that's a tank move... especially if the draft is considered as a part of the thinking process. Tanking is actually a broad definition that encompasses a lot of things.

I don't care. I call it what I want. I see no need to sugar coat anything. Sometimes teams need to bottom out properly to move forward. Some teams try to soften the fall but just extend the agony.

 

[pokerface]

Man BC with this upcoming draft loaded with big men I’d think you’d be salivating at a tank this year.

Secretly he probably is.


Funny, some of the non tank crowd acted screwed that the pick wasn't higher than fourth. Its like they want the payoff without the pain.

 

[Hoop Head]

Tanking is a subtle and not so subtle thing. If you trade a player knowing it could cost games short term...to me that's a tank move... especially if the draft is considered as a part of the thinking process. Tanking is actually a broad definition that encompasses a lot of things.

I don't care. I call it what I want. I see no need to sugar coat anything. Sometimes teams need to bottom out properly to move forward. Some teams try to soften the fall but just extend the agony.

You're so caught up in tank-mode that you might be the only person who is seeing any positives from these 3 games so far. I don't think the families of the team's players can find positives and they're benefitting from those NBA paychecks.

 

[pokerface]

You're so caught up in tank-mode that you might be the only person who is seeing any positives from these 3 games so far. I don't think the families of the team's players can find positives and they're benefitting from those NBA paychecks.

Well the team is extremely young...let's just call it growing pains. And if they are as bad as ppl think then all the more reason for the highest pick possible. Plus you haven't seen anything yet because we've played not even the toughest teams. The Clippers are actually below average out west.

We all know one or two players can turn a franchise around if they are good enough. I'm not sweating it.

 

[Chaplin]

Secretly he probably is.


Funny, some of the non tank crowd acted screwed that the pick wasn't higher than fourth. Its like they want the payoff without the pain.

You STILL don’t get it!

It’s not “anti-tanking”, it’s pro-player development.

Losing OBVIOUSLY takes care of itself. So those of us that advocate against tanking have been spot on this year.

 

[BC867]

Secretly he probably is.

You're wrong. I don't have a pokerface, pokerface. I wear my heart on my sleeve.

And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you truly believe that losing every year (it could even be called fixing games) is worth it to get a #1 pick someday.

Sure I'd love to see a talented big man join the Suns. But not if the only plan is to keep losing for however many years it takes. A talented Front Office would have other ways to accomplish it. Because there are many other things to consider about losing, as has been posted.

You STILL don’t get it!

It’s not “anti-tanking”, it’s pro-player development.

Losing OBVIOUSLY takes care of itself. So those of us that advocate against tanking have been spot on this year.

Thank you, Chap. Pokerface has not addressed that when it becomes routine to end every season hoping to lose as many games as possible next season, a team can't help but develop a loser's mentality.

Especially when losing and empty rah-rahs represent the only "passing grades" for the Head Coach out of all that are expected from him. And the effects it has on our predominantly young roster.

 

[pokerface]

The only argument I'm buying is Watson is hindering player development and that could be troublesome. Players are not showing enough improvement and some are regressing.

I'm not buying "players are being damaged mentally for good". Players come and go and new coaches can come in and bring a new mentality with it. If we draft top four that can bring hope too. Also, I don't see young players demanding trades at this stage...and even if they did they don't automatically get their way. Booker and others are under contract for a very long time...that's plenty of time to turn around their thinking.

Look, there are more problems than Watson. Our front court is atrocious. Chriss is regressing into nothingness. Len is still inconsistent and a foul magnet. Bender shows flashes but he's a couple seasons away from being reliable. To me this next draft is the most important draft in years. If we don't draft a big we are DONE because good bigs are harder to get because teams don't trade them as easily.

I say let Watson stay until the trade deadline at a minimum. We need to ensure a good draft and let the losses mount. The are going to lose with or without Watson so it's not even a hard choice.

 

[pokerface]

Ouchie...wtf is happening to our tank?


Chandler is killing our future. I knew he would be a problem.

 

[BC867]

Ouchie...wtf is happening to our tank?

According to the Webster dictionary . . .

Synonyms of pride: self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect, aplomb, assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-trust, self-worth, dignity, face, honor, prestige.

Opposite of pride: discredit, disesteem, disgrace, dishonor, disrepute, humiliation, ignominy, infamy, obloquy, odium, opprobrium, shame, demureness, humbleness, humility, modesty. diffidence, meekness, shyness, timidity, timidness.

Pride is what is happening to your tank. If you were job-hunting, which definition would you want on your resume?

If the Suns had a skilled management team, taking steps forward would not be based on lack of pride -- "disesteem, disgrace, dishonor, humiliation, shame".

 

[pokerface]

According to the Webster dictionary . . .

Synonyms of pride: self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect, aplomb, assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-trust, self-worth, dignity, face, honor, prestige.

Opposite of pride: discredit, disesteem, disgrace, dishonor, disrepute, humiliation, ignominy, infamy, obloquy, odium, opprobrium, shame, demureness, humbleness, humility, modesty. diffidence, meekness, shyness, timidity, timidness.

Pride is what is happening to your tank. If you were job-hunting, which definition would you want on your resume?

If the Suns had a skilled management team, taking steps forward would not be based on lack of pride -- "disesteem, disgrace, dishonor, humiliation, shame".

Pride cometh before a fall...suns can still tank

 

[JCSunsfan]

The tank is looking less and less likely. I would love to trade Bledsoe and other assets to get a pick that is in tank range (Nets?) and then root for someone else to tank, while our young guys win without us feeling bad about it.

 

[pokerface]

The tank is looking less and less likely. I would love to trade Bledsoe and other assets to get a pick that is in tank range (Nets?) and then root for someone else to tank, while our young guys win without us feeling bad about it.

Why because they beat Brooklyn? What quality teams are we knocking off?


If the suns trade Bled and Chandler the tank will roll on.

 

[Phrazbit]

Why because they beat Brooklyn? What quality teams are we knocking off?


If the suns trade Bled and Chandler the tank will roll on.

We beat Utah with relative ease, we nearly beat Portland on the road, Brooklyn was 3-1 at home with wins over Orlando and Cleveland before we beat them.

There will be plenty of time to tank if the Suns turn out to be as lousy as everyone thought they'd be, last year we didn't start the tank until the all-star break and still tumbled all the way to the 2nd worst record.

So... for now... stop bitching that your favorite team is winning games in the first month of the season.

 

[BC867]

Pride cometh before a fall...suns can still tank

As an agnostic, I never thought I'd quote the Bible:

Proverbs 16:18King James Version (KJV)

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Destruction? Fall? Right on! Sarver is destroying the team. And we sure have fallen for the past eight seasons. 'Not a lot to be proud of.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+16:18&version=KJV

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We beat Utah with relative ease, we nearly beat Portland on the road, Brooklyn was 3-1 at home with wins over Orlando and Cleveland before we beat them.

There will be plenty of time to tank if the Suns turn out to be as lousy as everyone thought they'd be, last year we didn't start the tank until the all-star break and still tumbled all the way to the 2nd worst record.

So... for now... stop bitching that your favorite team is winning games in the first month of the season.

Stop telling people what to do.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

At this juncture whatever happens happens. With a commitment to youth I can wish for losses but I can’t see a way around the young guys winning. If they notch 40 wins (which I doubt) then the season is a success (even with us missing out of a stud) because it may indicate tremendous growth by our youth. If we win 30 games this season is just a blown season.

 

[Phrazbit]

Stop telling people what to do.

I don't see what I'm saying as being any more abrasive than a few people who are vocally getting pissed off that their team is actually winning games.

I am down with the tank when the timing and situation calls for it, but if the pure 100% tankers are going to be as aggressive and abrasive as I've seen... then thy should be able to take it as well as they can dish it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why because they beat Brooklyn? What quality teams are we knocking off?


If the suns trade Bled and Chandler the tank will roll on.

Like I said.