Developing Scenario for Cardinals at #29?

[Mitch]

Bear with me here---I have a very strong sense that what I am going to say will be met with a cascade of boos---

But, there is a QB who most likely will be available at #29 who fits the Cardinals' Pro-System to a tee---and that is Penn St.'s Christian Hackenberg.

Pros:

* Size---6'4, 236.
* Athleticism---Just ran a 4.7 at his Pro Day after running 4.78 and the Combine, and ran the fastest 3 Cone among the QBs at 7.04, plus broad jumped 111".
* Arm Strength---fits the vertical passing game as well as any QB in the draft.
* Had his best season in a Pro-style system under Bill O'Brien.
* Set Penn St. record for career passing yards (over 8,000) in 3 seasons
* Threw for 371 yards and 4 TDs versus Boston College in the Pinstripe Bowl in 2014.

Cons:

* Accuracy---has been an issue the past two seasons. However, his protection was flat-out awful. Sacked 10 times versus Temple in the 2015 season opener, for example, and if you watch that tape, he had zero time to throw most of the game.
* Perception---according to coaching rumors, he's been attributing his poor play the past two seasons to the change in coaching and spread system. Now---if true---some would laud his honesty, especially if they believe it themselves, while others would find it a real red flag.

Cardinals' Connection:

* He's being coached this off-season by Jordan Palmer (Carson's brother).
* He has been citing Carson Palmer as a player he admires and tries to emulate.

Why Cardinals Would Consider Him at #29:

* With 1st rounders they get a 5th year option, which means they would have him under contract for 5 years and a 6th if they needed to use the franchise tag. With Carson Palmer having two years left, the timing is good.
* If BA is convinced he can mold Hackenberg into Palmer's successor, BA is set at the all-important QB position for the next 6 years.
* BA & SK have been talking up the QB position quite a bit this off-season. Perhaps they are giving Cardinals' fans a hint that a QB selection at #29 may be forthcoming. Heck, they drafted a 20 year old in the 1st round to groom for the future last year, so they sure could do it again.

Bottom Line:

If BA & SK believe that Hackenberg's issues the past two years were the result of the coaching change, system change (to the Spread) and the fallout from scholarship sanctions on the program (hence the poor offensive line), and they are convinced that Hackenberg will thrive in their Pro-style system, then having a chance to draft their photo-typical QB late in round one is an opportunity that can help make the Cardinals good for years to come---then, they will be convinced this a wise move.

Yes, they are doing their due diligence on other QBs, like Prescott, Jones and Driskel---but it could be to make sure that they are all the more convinced that Hackenberg is their guy---or they believe a team could jump ahead of them and take Hackenberg. Crazier things have happened, especially with QBs.

Fire away.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Maybe at 90, but not 29. Way overdrafting a 4th or 5th round pick.

 

[juza76]

There is a chance he could end up being undrafted
Rumor saying he had bad interviews too
Productiion was mediocre at best
He didnt improve since his freshman year
Accuracy below 52%

 

[pinetopred]

No more only thing he lacks is accuracy QBS for me , seems like everyone thinks they can fix it but very rarely can they.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

No problem with this QB but terrible choice at 29 for a project.

 

[vince56]

Cons:

* Accuracy

We're done here. Too hard to teach accuracy in the pro game. You need to have it going in.

 

[az jam]

No boos from me. The Cards are going to draft a qb this year and it could be Hackenberg. Most draftniks think he will go 2nd or 3rd round. Some do suggest the first round. Check this out from CBS Sports on his workouts with Jordan Palmer:

All of it frames Penn State's quarterback and his mentor in their crack-of-dawn game planning.

“We are preparing as if we are the Arizona Cardinals,” Jordan Palmer begins at this ungodly hour, “and we are going to follow them to the Super Bowl.”

All of it will eventually make sense as the next day of his football life unfolds for Christian Hackenberg.
The difference is this unique approach used by Palmer, the 31-year-old father of that sleeping newborn, who is standing before Hackenberg.

Palmer is Hackenberg's quarterback coach/tutor/guru. Most top prospects have one to prepare for the draft. This particular one has spent eight years as an NFL backup and is the brother of the Cardinals' quarterback, Carson Palmer.

At this moment -- and as long as the Cardinals are alive in the playoffs -- Christian will be Carson -- preparing as if he were going to play in the upcoming games: film study, throwing, precise nutrition, even a conference call with Jordan's 36-year-old brother.

Hackenberg is doing pretty much everything this week except going under center against Carolina.

“I just wanted to come into a situation where it was just like work,” Hackenberg said of this draft/playoff/life prep. “I didn't have to worry about cameras. Focus on myself and get prepared as possible.

“Our personalities gel so well.”




Bottom line for me Mitch, Cards could take him in the first.

 

[AZCrazy]

But Mel Kiper's hair would catch fire.
Hackenberg is in play in the 3rd. Doubt it's the 1st.

 

[oaken1]

they could do worse than Hack.... trade back into the second for him....

but either way....our first rounder is just going to sit a year or two anyway...aint that the way we do it now?

 

[Mitch]

Personally, I have felt all along that when Carson Palmer retires, BA&SK would do everything they can to sign, draft or trade for Palmer's successor.

However, I am getting the sense that (a) BA & SK are no longer expecting rookies to come in as starters---and (b) they are trying to develop a roster that would allow them to compete for a championship for years to come.

If they draft Hackenberg---I will understand it. I watched the Temple game today and he looked very much like Aaron Rodgers versus the Cardinals in Week 16. He had no chance. And as we all know---when a QB even a great one like Rodgers---is under such intense pressure it causes the QB to quicken everything---kind of like Virginia not being able to handle Syracuse's press---so, I think a case can be made for mitigating circumstances regarding Hack's play the past two seasons.

Do I want them to draft Hackenberg at #29? If it were up to me? No. I still think we have work to do in order to strengthen both lines and upgrade the tackling. However, I do have confidence that Steve Keim can find a way to do all of the above and I would understand that a talent like Hackenberg isn't going to be sitting there late in round one very often. And having him learn from Carson Palmer for two years like Aaron Rodgers did in GB might keep the Cardinals in the Super Bowl conversation every year the way GB has been when they had Brett Favre and then handed the reins over to Rodgers.

 

[juza76]

Personally, I have felt all along that when Carson Palmer retires, BA&SK would do everything they can to sign, draft or trade for Palmer's successor.

However, I am getting the sense that (a) BA & SK are no longer expecting rookies to come in as starters---and (b) they are trying to develop a roster that would allow them to compete for a championship for years to come.

If they draft Hackenberg---I will understand it. I watched the Temple game today and he looked very much like Aaron Rodgers versus the Cardinals in Week 16. He had no chance. And as we all know---when a QB even a great one like Rodgers---is under such intense pressure it causes the QB to quicken everything---kind of like Virginia not being able to handle Syracuse's press---so, I think a case can be made for mitigating circumstances regarding Hack's play the past two seasons.

Do I want them to draft Hackenberg at #29? If it were up to me? No. I still think we have work to do in order to strengthen both lines and upgrade the tackling. However, I do have confidence that Steve Keim can find a way to do all of the above and I would understand that a talent like Hackenberg isn't going to be sitting there late in round one very often. And having him learn from Carson Palmer for two years like Aaron Rodgers did in GB might keep the Cardinals in the Super Bowl conversation every year the way GB has been when they had Brett Favre and then handed the reins over to Rodgers.

Ok but heckenberg is not rodgers
I still think the Cards if he drop like rodgers they ll draft lynch.
Lynch is raw but has the upside to become the better qb of this class

 

[Cardiac]

I really enjoy and appreciate the continual draft and roster posts Mitch but I HATE the idea of a QB taken in the 1st rd this year and would break stuff if BASK takes Hackenberg before the 4th rd. Even then I'd swear a lot.

I know BASK has been talking about getting a QB this year and SK has talked about getting a QB in the draft just about every year but I'm all in for this year and have trouble changing my mindset about that.

Rd 1 simply has to address stopping the oppositions passing game. Pass rusher or DB's.

 

[Stout]

I learned my lesson with Skelton. Accuracy--or, to be specific, a terrible lack of accuracy--is not something that can really be coached. It can be honed and fine-tuned, but Hack is way too inaccurate. Yes, Franklin hurt his college career a lot, but his feet are locked in concrete and he's inaccurate as all get out. I'd burn a 5th or 6th rounder on him, maybe, but no more.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I'm sure others might disagree, but I personally don't think you can teach accuracy. I would ignore size/speed/whatever and take accuracy above all others.

 

[Harry]

I guess I've made it clear by now that I think taking a QB is bad timing. Beyond that Hackenberg not only shouldn't be drafted in round 1; he shouldn't be drafted at all. He has the worst pocket presence of any "prominent" QB. He is panic personified whenever a rusher gets in. He can't even remember to step up in the pocket. His mechanics are inconsistent. His command is terrible. He stares down receivers. He doesn't follow receiver progressions. Add to this he played better as a freshman. Yes there was a coaching change, but it didn't justify his total lack of progress. Yes he does have arm strength, but the ball could land most anywhere. I think Mitch has suggested some interesting options. This isn't one of them.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I guess I've made it clear by now that I think taking a QB is bad timing. Beyond that Hackenberg not only shouldn't be drafted in round 1; he shouldn't be drafted at all. He has the worst pocket presence of any "prominent" QB. He is panic personified whenever a rusher gets in. He can't even remember to step up in the pocket. His mechanics are inconsistent. His command is terrible. He stares down receivers. He doesn't follow receiver progressions. Add to this he played better as a freshman. Yes there was a coaching change, but it didn't justify his total lack of progress. Yes he does have arm strength, but the ball could land most anywhere. I think Mitch has suggested some interesting options. This isn't one of them.

Couldn't agree more Harry. There is no, as in NONE, possible way Hackenburg should be picked in the first round. Did I say NONE??
If the Cards keep their 29th pick (there is a good deal of speculation that they could trade down), they are going with a center...

 

[Buckybird]

I wouldn't touch Hackenberg with a 100ft pole!!!

Sorry Walter

 

[WildBB]

DL, CB or trade back from 29. Trade back sets us up for rest of draft. Then our late round picks are more like top of following Rd. picks if we pick up early 2nd and 3rd picks. It should be a fairly deep draft where we can address a number of positions.

 

[TJ]

Hackenberg allegedly told NFL scouts during interviews that his regression was due to James Franklin. Basically, he threw the entire PSU coaching staff under the bus.

He may be right, but you don't want someone like that as your leader, on top of the many areas for improvement in his game.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I learned my lesson with Skelton. Accuracy--or, to be specific, a terrible lack of accuracy--is not something that can really be coached. It can be honed and fine-tuned, but Hack is way too inaccurate. Yes, Franklin hurt his college career a lot, but his feet are locked in concrete and he's inaccurate as all get out. I'd burn a 5th or 6th rounder on him, maybe, but no more.

This

 

[juza76]

I would draft driskel over him Even if I dont really like him

 

[Cardsfanstl]

Bear with me here---I have a very strong sense that what I am going to say will be met with a cascade of boos---

But, there is a QB who most likely will be available at #29 who fits the Cardinals' Pro-System to a tee---and that is Penn St.'s Christian Hackenberg.

Pros:

* Size---6'4, 236.
* Athleticism---Just ran a 4.7 at his Pro Day after running 4.78 and the Combine, and ran the fastest 3 Cone among the QBs at 7.04, plus broad jumped 111".
* Arm Strength---fits the vertical passing game as well as any QB in the draft.
* Had his best season in a Pro-style system under Bill O'Brien.
* Set Penn St. record for career passing yards (over 8,000) in 3 seasons
* Threw for 371 yards and 4 TDs versus Boston College in the Pinstripe Bowl in 2014.

Cons:

* Accuracy---has been an issue the past two seasons. However, his protection was flat-out awful. Sacked 10 times versus Temple in the 2015 season opener, for example, and if you watch that tape, he had zero time to throw most of the game.
* Perception---according to coaching rumors, he's been attributing his poor play the past two seasons to the change in coaching and spread system. Now---if true---some would laud his honesty, especially if they believe it themselves, while others would find it a real red flag.

Cardinals' Connection:

* He's being coached this off-season by Jordan Palmer (Carson's brother).
* He has been citing Carson Palmer as a player he admires and tries to emulate.

Why Cardinals Would Consider Him at #29:

* With 1st rounders they get a 5th year option, which means they would have him under contract for 5 years and a 6th if they needed to use the franchise tag. With Carson Palmer having two years left, the timing is good.
* If BA is convinced he can mold Hackenberg into Palmer's successor, BA is set at the all-important QB position for the next 6 years.
* BA & SK have been talking up the QB position quite a bit this off-season. Perhaps they are giving Cardinals' fans a hint that a QB selection at #29 may be forthcoming. Heck, they drafted a 20 year old in the 1st round to groom for the future last year, so they sure could do it again.

Bottom Line:

If BA & SK believe that Hackenberg's issues the past two years were the result of the coaching change, system change (to the Spread) and the fallout from scholarship sanctions on the program (hence the poor offensive line), and they are convinced that Hackenberg will thrive in their Pro-style system, then having a chance to draft their photo-typical QB late in round one is an opportunity that can help make the Cardinals good for years to come---then, they will be convinced this a wise move.

Yes, they are doing their due diligence on other QBs, like Prescott, Jones and Driskel---but it could be to make sure that they are all the more convinced that Hackenberg is their guy---or they believe a team could jump ahead of them and take Hackenberg. Crazier things have happened, especially with QBs.

Fire away.

If the Cards trade down to the second round and he is the only [layer left on top of their board but not first round

 

[Krangodnzr]

I've tossed around the idea of drafting Hackenberg as well, but at the end of the day, his accuracy and pocket presence are below average for a draftable NFL QB.

As others have already stated in this thread, the idea that accuracy can be taught has been proven to be false. Even when QBs make a jump in accuracy, it's usually only by about 5% or less. If Hackenberg made the jump from his best season, we're talking about a 63% completion percentage, but based on his overall play, that would be a stretch.

I like his build and his arm strength, and if you watch enough film, you see Hackenberg make legitimate NFL throws. His lack of pocket presence and inability to complete ordinary throws all the time are alarming however and you just can't justify drafting him in round one or two.

I would rather bring in a Jeff Driskel or another developmental guy later in the draft.

I would take Lynch with #29 though.

 

[gmabel830]

I'd be in favor of this, but only because I need a new TV and us staying at #29 and drafting this kid would ensure I would be getting one!

 

[Southpaw]

Hella no. He's a Hack. Jeff Driskell in the 3rd.