Diamondbacks vs. Braves thread

[unseenaz]

I don't see how stats go to the extreme, but I do see how people dismiss stats when they don't understand them or they make them look wrong ( see Avondale Red Rage) or they misuse them because they don't fully understand them, but you don't blame the hammer for the carpenters ineptitude.

Baseball, being a game of situational states and individual performances lends itself to statistical analysis more so than any other team sport.

WAR is about more than batting so yes, I could easily see a situation where you pinch hit Delmon Young (-0.9 WAR in 2012) for Alberto Callaspo (2.9 WAR in 2012). I don't think your projection of what a "stat geek" would or wouldn't do and that you know better than them holds water.

Some people love the stats, some people just love the game, baseball isn't just stats. That being said, baseball is the most statistically tracked sport - by far

 

[DWKB]

Some people love the stats, some people just love the game, baseball isn't just stats. That being said, baseball is the most statistically tracked sport - by far

That's a straw man argument. Nobody makes the stance that baseball is all stats. What usually happens is that someone who thinks they know the game, typically those fan who "just love the game" make an assertion that the stats prove wrong and they choose to reject the stats out of what I can only assume is pride. All those "stat geeks" you're referring to love the game as well and not any less than those who choose to reject statistical analysis. I've discovered it's often more.

 

[unseenaz]

That's a straw man argument. Nobody makes the stance that baseball is all stats. What usually happens is that someone who thinks they know the game, typically those fan who "just love the game" make an assertion that the stats prove wrong and they choose to reject the stats out of what I can only assume is pride. All those "stat heads" you're referring to love the game as well and not any less than those who choose to reject statistical analysis. I've discovered it's often more.

Who have you seen reject stats? Everyone who follows baseball follows stats. It's just a matter of which stats they choose to follow.

 

[DWKB]

Who have you seen reject stats? Everyone who follows baseball follows stats. It's just a matter of which stats they choose to follow.

Whenever someone says "You have your stats and I have my eyes" like Avondale Red Rage stated is essentially rejecting stats.

 

[unseenaz]

Whenever someone says "You have your stats and I have my eyes" like Avondale Red Rage stated is essentially rejecting stats.

Well, I can't speak for him, but I'm sure he follows some stats.

Some stats I typically don't pay attention to; pitcher's W-L record.. pretty much irrelevant. And holds... what's next, "set-up" for the hold? What about saves? Never really liked that one either.

 

[UncleChris]

I just want some runs......

 

[Dback Jon]

I just want some runs......

Try the Mexican Restaurant on Grand Ave

 

[AZ Native]

Try the Mexican Restaurant on Grand Ave

 

[TJ]

Speaking of Mexican food - one more run for taco time

 

[82CardsGrad]

Heath Bell grabs the save as the Dbacks clinch the series win! Goldy and Chavez were huge today.
Parra remains rock solid.
Kennedy just can't seem to find his groove and command. Bummer... But the pen did a nice job today...

 

[crisper57]

Big series win. Huge, actually! The D-Backs are staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarting to turn the page on their bullpen woes and they are getting healthier. Hopefully they will find their groove and never look back.

 

[Lefty]

Diamondbacks win 5-3 and win the series. Has this team had a 3 up, 3 down in the 9th inning? They never make it easy.

 

[Dback Jon]

And JUp Strikes out in crunch time.

 

[crisper57]

And JUp Strikes out in crunch time.

At least some things never change, not matter what uniform he's wearing.

 

[82CardsGrad]

And JUp Strikes out in crunch time.

That was a great pitch by Bell!

 

[AZ Native]

And last night in the 8th when J Up was the tying run at the plate, what did he do against Hernandez? 3 straight strikes, watching the 3rd strike.

 

[BC867]

The bottom line in this first test is that the D'backs without Upton beat the Braves with him 2-outa-3 in the first series.

A tie or better for the D'backs in the season series with the Braves would seem to support the trade.

Our other series with them takes place in Atlanta the last 3 days of June.

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

Whenever someone says "You have your stats and I have my eyes" like Avondale Red Rage stated is essentially rejecting stats.

I love baseball and I have no problem with stats, I just don't pay much attention to them. I like players that produce when needed, and tend to lose interest in those that fade in the moment. To me stats are like a resume, good information to do initial evaluation, but in the end it comes down to face to face, instinct, and ultimately how do you produce when the team needs you most.

P.s. I'm going to reinstate my self imposed rule of carefully posting when I'm in a bad mood as I was the other night during the 10-1 laugher. I respect those that are knowledgeable and have as much passion for the game as I do, and hopefully don't come across as disrespectful in any way.

 

[DWKB]

The bottom line in this first test is that the D'backs without Upton beat the Braves with him 2-outa-3 in the first series.

A tie or better for the D'backs in the season series with the Braves would seem to support the trade.

Our other series with them takes place in Atlanta the last 3 days of June.

The DBacks with Upton this year would have been WS contenders. If they don't at least make it to the WS then that would seem to support the trade being bad.

 

[DWKB]

I love baseball and I have no problem with stats, I just don't pay much attention to them. I like players that produce when needed, and tend to lose interest in those that fade in the moment. To me stats are like a resume, good information to do initial evaluation, but in the end it comes down to face to face, instinct, and ultimately how do you produce when the team needs you most.

P.s. I'm going to reinstate my self imposed rule of carefully posting when I'm in a bad mood as I was the other night during the 10-1 laugher. I respect those that are knowledgeable and have as much passion for the game as I do, and hopefully don't come across as disrespectful in any way.

You have no problem as long as they don't get in the way of your expert opinion and insights.

Like doubt it even matters to you that Upton is batting .381 in 21 AB in Late and Close situations this year.

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

You have no problem as long as they don't get in the way of your expert opinion and insights.

Like doubt it even matters to you that Upton is batting .381 in 21 AB in Late and Close situations this year.

You're right, it doesn't matter to me. In fact if it makes you feel better I'll stop expressing my opinion and just copy and paste whatever you post?

 

[DWKB]

You're right, it doesn't matter to me. In fact if it makes you feel better I'll stop expressing my opinion and just copy and paste whatever you post?

Wouldn't you want to be correct? If you express and opinion that something is typical and it turns out not to be so wouldn't you reevaluate that opinion?

Upton sucked in 2012 in Late and Close situations hitting only .176, but he hit over .300 in those situations in both 2011 and 2010. If we can't accept this from him then what are our expectations?

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

Dbacks take 2 of 3 from the Braves and head to Miami with a 23-18 record. Currently St. Louis has the best record in MLB with 26 wins while we sit .5 game behind SF as they start a 4 game series with the Rockies. NL West is going to be a dog fight this summer as LA took 2 of 3 from the Nationals as well with Greinke back on the mound.

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

Wouldn't you want to be correct? If you express and opinion that something is typical and it turns out not to be so wouldn't you reevaluate that opinion?

Give it a rest. I expressed my opinion on a player, I didn't quote stats so there is nothing to be right or wrong about? You can disagree with my assessment and use stats to back up your argument which is fine. I'm talking about a player I've been watching for 6 years and my opinion based on what he means or meant to our team. If i had made a statement about a player i don't watch 162 times year (which i wouldn't), then i would reevaluate based on that information. I'm not trying to be an expert, I'm a fan of the Arizona Diamondbacks and enjoy when they're playing good solid baseball. Period.

 

[TJ]

The bottom line in this first test is that the D'backs without Upton beat the Braves with him 2-outa-3 in the first series.

A tie or better for the D'backs in the season series with the Braves would seem to support the trade.

Our other series with them takes place in Atlanta the last 3 days of June.

There is no legitimate support for the trade even if we'd have beaten them 6 times.

It was a bad deal for the D-Backs. It's now about figuring out how bad the trade was. As it stands, the two most productive players in the entire deal are on the Braves.

Prado won't replace Upton's production in the lineup. Upton leads his team in five major statistical categories (AVG, RBI, OPS, HR, and R). Prado has not been a difference maker at all for this team. Plus, for all the grief Upton gets for his struggles with RISP, Prado is batting .056!