Diamondbacks vs. Braves thread

[Avondale Red Rage]

There is no legitimate support for the trade even if we'd have beaten them 6 times.

It was a bad deal for the D-Backs. It's now about figuring out how bad the trade was. As it stands, the two most productive players in the entire deal are on the Braves.

Prado won't replace Upton's production in the lineup. Upton leads his team in five major statistical categories (AVG, RBI, OPS, HR, and R). Prado has not been a difference maker at all for this team. Plus, for all the grief Upton gets for his struggles with RISP, Prado is batting .056!

Well, an improved team from last year would be legitimate support wouldn't it? We're 5 games above .500 and a .5 game out of first with Prado yet to get on track, not to mention the improved defense. Looking forward to Prado getting on track (hopefully soon) and getting Hill back in the line-up.

 

[DWKB]

There is no legitimate support for the trade even if we'd have beaten them 6 times.

It was a bad deal for the D-Backs. It's now about figuring out how bad the trade was. As it stands, the two most productive players in the entire deal are on the Braves.

Prado won't replace Upton's production in the lineup. Upton leads his team in five major statistical categories (AVG, RBI, OPS, HR, and R). Prado has not been a difference maker at all for this team. Plus, for all the grief Upton gets for his struggles with RISP, Prado is batting .056!

People on here who have decided they don't like Upton have decided that every example that validates their opinion is concrete proof and every example that doesn't validate their opinion is the exception. That there might be more exceptions than rules is not of their concern. They know what the see and are completely objective in their observations that gives them authority. Right Mr Red Rage?

 

[DWKB]

Give it a rest. I expressed my opinion on a player, I didn't quote stats so there is nothing to be right or wrong about? You can disagree with my assessment and use stats to back up your argument which is fine. I'm talking about a player I've been watching for 6 years and my opinion based on what he means or meant to our team. If i had made a statement about a player i don't watch 162 times year (which i wouldn't), then i would reevaluate based on that information. I'm not trying to be an expert, I'm a fan of the Arizona Diamondbacks and enjoy when they're playing good solid baseball. Period.

An opinion can be wrong, you don't need to use stats to be wrong. Your eyes do a good enough job for you it seems. It's never too late to learn this game regardless of how old you are.

 

[Avondale Red Rage]

An opinion can be wrong, you don't need to use stats to be wrong. Your eyes do a good enough job for you it seems. It's never too late to learn this game regardless of how old you are.

You would be right if I used message board forums to validate my existence in the world, but I don't. You're veiled sarcastic and verbose jabs are wonderful message board traits that I'm sure you've honed well, and if you're looking for some sort of win in your constant jabs, you can have it. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's game against the Marlins.

 

[TJ]

Well, an improved team from last year would be legitimate support wouldn't it? We're 5 games above .500 and a .5 game out of first with Prado yet to get on track, not to mention the improved defense. Looking forward to Prado getting on track (hopefully soon) and getting Hill back in the line-up.

No it wouldn't. The main piece we got back was Prado, who is playing like crap right now. There's no doubt in my mind that if Upton were in his place that we'd have produced far more runs up to this point and would've won the Philly series. Before yesterday, it had been a week since the team scored more than 3 runs in a game.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Uggghh... Guess the Upton trade will forever be discussed and examined, regardless of how the Dbacks are doing...
For me - I am far less concerned about attempting to determine if the trade was "good" or "bad" for the team. It just "is"... The team felt this was what they needed to do and I totally accept it.
As I've said before, Upton can go on and become the next Willie Mays and it wouldn't change how I view this trade. Likewise, he can fail miserably and again, it wouldn't matter to me.
What matters to me is that we have ownership and a GM who are committed to putting a quality product on the field and maximizing the chances for success, given the financial realities of a mid-market team. I believe we have that with this team.
At this point, we are enjoying a very fun season. And that is with a steady dose of failure from our pen, a Kennedy is has been sub-par in each game since opening day, a Cahill who until recently was floundering. A Prado and Miggy who have been totally absent at the plate. No Hill. No Eaton. No Bloomquist. I don't care one but about the Upton crap... What I just laid out in terms of this teams' success in the face of so many shortcomings is damn impressive!

 

[Dback Jon]

Uggghh... Guess the Upton trade will forever be discussed and examined, regardless of how the Dbacks are doing...
For me - I am far less concerned about attempting to determine if the trade was "good" or "bad" for the team. It just "is"... The team felt this was what they needed to do and I totally accept it.
As I've said before, Upton can go on and become the next Willie Mays and it wouldn't change how I view this trade. Likewise, he can fail miserably and again, it wouldn't matter to me.
What matters to me is that we have ownership and a GM who are committed to putting a quality product on the field and maximizing the chances for success, given the financial realities of a mid-market team. I believe we have that with this team.
At this point, we are enjoying a very fun season. And that is with a steady dose of failure from our pen, a Kennedy is has been sub-par in each game since opening day, a Cahill who until recently was floundering. A Prado and Miggy who have been totally absent at the plate. No Hill. No Eaton. No Bloomquist. I don't care one but about the Upton crap... What I just laid out in terms of this teams' success in the face of so many shortcomings is damn impressive!

 

[AZ Native]

Uggghh... Guess the Upton trade will forever be discussed and examined, regardless of how the Dbacks are doing...
For me - I am far less concerned about attempting to determine if the trade was "good" or "bad" for the team. It just "is"... The team felt this was what they needed to do and I totally accept it.
As I've said before, Upton can go on and become the next Willie Mays and it wouldn't change how I view this trade. Likewise, he can fail miserably and again, it wouldn't matter to me.
What matters to me is that we have ownership and a GM who are committed to putting a quality product on the field and maximizing the chances for success, given the financial realities of a mid-market team. I believe we have that with this team.
At this point, we are enjoying a very fun season. And that is with a steady dose of failure from our pen, a Kennedy is has been sub-par in each game since opening day, a Cahill who until recently was floundering. A Prado and Miggy who have been totally absent at the plate. No Hill. No Eaton. No Bloomquist. I don't care one but about the Upton crap... What I just laid out in terms of this teams' success in the face of so many shortcomings is damn impressive!

The voice of reason.

 

[Mulli]

You would be right if I used message board forums to validate my existence in the world, but I don't. You're veiled sarcastic and verbose jabs are wonderful message board traits that I'm sure you've honed well, and if you're looking for some sort of win in your constant jabs, you can have it. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's game against the Marlins.

Well said.

 

[Mulli]

If fans liked the Upton trade more (or if he had not hit So many home runs this year) would they boo him less?

And will this franchise turn on Montero if he continues to hit .189?

 

[Dback Jon]

And will this franchise turn on Montero if he continues to hit .189?

Probably not, since defensively/handiing pitchers he is still stellar.

 

[Mulli]

Probably not, since defensively/handiing pitchers he is still stellar.

Right, and they kept Chris Young a long time based on his defense. Just wondering because 1) it is hard to win with any regular player hitting .189 or worse and 2) Montero, like Upton at one point, has his picture everywhere.

 

[Dback Jon]

Right, and they kept Chris Young a long time based on his defense. Just wondering because 1) it is hard to win with any regular player hitting .189 or worse and 2) Montero, like Upton at one point, has his picture everywhere.

Catcher is a diffrerent animal all together - you don't expect much offensive production out of the spot.

Miggy is very close to breaking out - it is all there, he is just a little off.

 

[DWKB]

Well said.

Not really.

 

[unseenaz]

Not really.

Do you come onto these forums just to start arguments and put everyone down?

 

[unseenaz]

Catcher is a diffrerent animal all together - you don't expect much offensive production out of the spot.

Miggy is very close to breaking out - it is all there, he is just a little off.

I watched a video on the Dbacks website, should still be on there, on Miggy's daily routine during spring training. He would get to the ballpark 4 hours before everyone else, to lift weights. He then went and ate breakfast, by then the pitchers were showing up, so he would catch a bullpen session. THEN after that, the position players were just showing up, and he would go start the day with them. Unreal. Catchers put in so much behind the scenes work, loads of respect for him.

 

[DWKB]

Do you come onto these forums just to start arguments and put everyone down?

Maybe you'd prefer I just go along with the talking points and groupthink? I seem to value reality more than other on here. I often express my agreement when someone says something insightful. I did so to 82 a couple days ago.

 

[unseenaz]

Maybe you'd prefer I just go along with the talking points and groupthink? I seem to value reality more than other on here. I often express my agreement when someone says something insightful. I did so to 82 a couple days ago.

You sound bitter bro. There's a difference between having an opinion and sharing it with everyone, and just ****ting all over everyone elses who doesn't agree with you.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Maybe you'd prefer I just go along with the talking points and groupthink? I seem to value reality more than other on here. I often express my agreement when someone says something insightful. I did so to 82 a couple days ago.

Yea... But you were intoxicated that day...

 

[DWKB]

You sound bitter bro. There's a difference between having an opinion and sharing it with everyone, and just ****ting all over everyone elses who doesn't agree with you.

No, it's just when people make themselves out to be an expert "I'll use my eyes" and it doesn't match the actual record when I point out the error in their perspective they take it personal. After all its THEIR eyes I'm saying is wrong. I assume its why I get told they are MY stats. The truth is most people don't like being told they are wrong because they take it personally instead of seeing it as a chance to learn something new and discover new information. That's why it's funny to hear someone say they don't come here to get validation. Why else would you espouse your opinion and get so pissed when somebody challenges it? Because you want to have it validated.

So, would you suggest I just go along with the groupthink if I think it's wrong? Don't disrupt the herd?

 

[jonberry]

Math is really hard apparently. When facts don't back up blatantly wrong stances, then it doesn't matter. I get the feeling many people here wish the world was still considered flat. They have no need for new (and correct) ideas.

 

[BC867]

And will this franchise turn on Montero if he continues to hit .189?

Dodger catcher Roy Campanella went from hitting .312 with 41 HR's and 142 RBi's in 1953

to .207/19/51 in 1954

to ..318/32/107 in 1955. Dodger fans did not turn on him. And he was the NL MVP in '55 as he was in '53 (and '51).

So, no, I don't expect a good franchise or good fans turning on Miggy.

The thing is he's hitting hard line drives to LF and RF, but right at fielders. That's a good sign! But every time it happens, I hope they start falling in.

 

[DWKB]

Dodger catcher Roy Campanella went from hitting .312 with 41 HR's and 142 RBi's in 1953

to .207/19/51 in 1954

to ..318/32/107 in 1955. Dodger fans did not turn on him. And he was the NL MVP in '55 as he was in '53 (and '51).

So, no, I don't expect a good franchise or good fans turning on Miggy.

The thing is he's hitting hard line drives to LF and RF, but right at fielders. That's a good sign! But every time it happens, I hope they start falling in.

Ol Campy injured his hand in ST in 1954 while sliding into 2B and instead of having surgery he played through the pain. Reminds me of a certain RF who had a hand injury sliding into 2B at the beginning of the season and instead of sitting out played through the pain and had a sub par year because of it just like Ol Campy. Of course if you like a player you forgive that and if you don't like a player, well......

Are you saying you think Montero is injured?

 

[BC867]

Ol Campy injured his hand in ST in 1954 while sliding into 2B and instead of having surgery he played through the pain. Reminds me of a certain RF who had a hand injury sliding into 2B at the beginning of the season and instead of sitting out played through the pain and had a sub par year because of it just like Ol Campy. Of course if you like a player you forgive that and if you don't like a player, well......

Are you saying you think Montero is injured?

No, I am saying that I think the franchise will not turn on Miggy in response to a post.

You're conveniently overlooking the fact that the Front Office tried to turn JUp into the face of the franchise and it didn't work out. Something had to give! In this case, moving Upton and Young, and Mark Reynolds before them, and adapting a new philosophy.

Justin Upton drove in an average of 70.4 runs per year in his five full seasons. That is not sufficient for a player in the heart of the batting order.

Didja ever read "The Peter Principle"? "In a hierarchy, employees tends to rise to their level of incompetence." Once you have pushed one to a responsibility beyond their scope, it is extremely difficult to move them back and save grace. The only solution becomes moving them on.

A fresh start for the team. A fresh start for the player. Of course, his lackadaisical performances on the field and temper tantrums in the dugout didn't help.

In my opinion, it's all part of the big picture.

 

[devilalum]

Dodger catcher Roy Campanella went from hitting .312 with 41 HR's and 142 RBi's in 1953

to .207/19/51 in 1954

to ..318/32/107 in 1955. Dodger fans did not turn on him. And he was the NL MVP in '55 as he was in '53 (and '51).

So, no, I don't expect a good franchise or good fans turning on Miggy.

The thing is he's hitting hard line drives to LF and RF, but right at fielders. That's a good sign! But every time it happens, I hope they start falling in.

Didn't Campanella get hit by a car?