Did Anyone else catch the Kyler Murray tidbit?

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If our offense doesn't improve this year with all our weapons and giving KK everything he wanted and needs, then he either has to go or at least be willing to bring in a great offensive minded coach to handle the play calling. Up to this point, to me KK stinks at it and should never be awarded another year at it.

 

[Arz101]

GM encompasses more than draft picks (hence free agency which Keim is above average to be truthful) which as a whole venture on miss more than hit but I think that most successful young QBs need one exceptional draft class to buck the odds to win a SB

10000 feet view: GM had eight seasons. One playoff win to show for it. Five straight seasons without playoffs. Keim got a fair shake by NFL standards. Even got to hire a third head coach. Results are not there. Keim has to go.

 

[Solar7]

I always disagree that “winning a super bowl” is the only measure for success. Only one team gets to win a super bowl every year, but you can still have a successful season because so much of the rest is luck.

I also quibble with the notion that Keim is above average in free agency. Spending a ton of money on Jordan Phillips and Devon Kennard didn’t yield squat. Spent seven figures in Robert Alford again last season.

Yep. If you are in reasonable position for a Super Bowl and don’t make it, that’s a bummer. If you’re never in position for a Super Bowl outside of everything perfectly right, that’s luck.

 

[football karma]

defensive coordinators save their best stuff for 3rd down and other high leverage situations

i think K1 needs to be better at recognizing and going to the right place

 

[kerouac9]

defensive coordinators save their best stuff for 3rd down and other high leverage situations

i think K1 needs to be better at recognizing and going to the right place

Partly, but I have a hard time believing that Kliff doesn’t think or know that having one deep option at least on a third down play is a good thing, even if the pass doesn’t go that way.

I wonder if Kyler says “let me choose which matchup I like and go there.” Then everyone runs to the sticks and turns around.

I don’t have the stomach to watch Colt McCoy reps, but it’s be interesting to see what his third down play calls look like.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I always disagree that “winning a super bowl” is the only measure for success. Only one team gets to win a super bowl every year, but you can still have a successful season because so much of the rest is luck.

I also quibble with the notion that Keim is above average in free agency. Spending a ton of money on Jordan Phillips and Devon Kennard didn’t yield squat. Spent seven figures in Robert Alford again last season.

Yeah, somehow posters have just smushed FA and Trades together when giving Keim credit for FA. His trades have been no doubt home runs. His big FA swings have been overwhelming average if not outright bad. Kennard, Phillips, Hicks, Alford, Suggs, Bradford were the big FA dollars spent in the last three years. All of them haven’t just been bad, as a group they’ve been atrocious. And we’ve yet to see how this years bonanza of “bargains” shakes out.

early in Keim’s time he made some good FA moves with Veldheer and the first two or three years of Keim Time guys. But since then? The FA classes have been overwhelmingly underwhelming at best.

Pugh was a decent signing in the last four years. Have there been any others? I’m racking my brain trying to think of some but am coming up empty.

 

[Morty]

I actually saw 2 folks caught it but doesn't seem to be really being discussed which is bizarre. Don't get it twisted. I am fully on the KM bandwagon. Have been and admitted I was wrong when we drafted him. He is clearly talented.

But seriously. "The worst 3rd down completion % in the entire league the last 2 years with exception of Sam freaking Donald"

This should be VERY concerning IMO. It would also be something that needs to be much improved one would think for a monster contract?

Kurt Warner's YouTube channel analysis demonstrated that Murray ( and other elite QBs), often miss the easy 'layup'. Kurt noted that they should take the layup if it is there. Meaning, QB watches a key defender and depending on where that defender goes/turns there is someone open for a 3-5 yard gain. He noted that he saw improvement in Murray over the years. Hopefully, this year will be the year of the layup.

 

[BritCard]

defensive coordinators save their best stuff for 3rd down and other high leverage situations

i think K1 needs to be better at recognizing and going to the right place

They save their best stuff for 3rd down vs every QB. They all face the same thing and he's still bottom two.

Kliff is a major factor. He has a massive tendency to play to the sticks anyway but on 3rd its dumb.

 

[Matt L]

This comeback is like your GM's record in the past five years - Below average.

More like, "this comeback is like your GM...stale since 2005."

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I’m 50/50 on Kyler as a SB caliber QB.

At same time I also wouldn’t let Kliff watch my dog so my opinion on Kyler is TBD until a moron who wouldn’t get the head coaching gig at NAU isn’t his coach.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’m 50/50 on Kyler as a SB caliber QB.

At same time I also wouldn’t let Kliff watch my dog so my opinion on Kyler is TBD until a moron who wouldn’t get the head coaching gig at NAU isn’t his coach.

Mao coming out swinging tonight!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’m 50/50 on Kyler as a SB caliber QB.

At same time I also wouldn’t let Kliff watch my dog so my opinion on Kyler is TBD until a moron who wouldn’t get the head coaching gig at NAU isn’t his coach.

this is where I'm at.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kliff's first year I liked in that he realized his plan wasn't going to work so he shifted to playing more multiple TE sets. Last year he reverted a bit, he got D Hop and wanted to play with his new toy and he had injuries at TE so it seemed like we played them less although that may not be true. This year my guess is he decided if I'm on the hotseat I'm going down fighting with MY plan. I can't believe that we have no TE's other than Maxx for any other reason than Kliff told Keim it's not my priority, I've got my WR's and RB's I like and I'm going with that.

So this is the year for Kliff unless we luck into a TE or two he just doesn't have the guys on the roster to revert to more TE sets if the same issue happens. I think they decided to roll with what he wants, Hudson is a big add there. If it doesn't work, it's on Kliff.

My issue is I think Kyler has had pretty good success with TE's his first 2 years, we never play a FB, so basically his safety outlets now are just RB's. It's a big year for Kyler too he has lots of weapons he has to show improvement I'm just saying I think kliff decided if I'm going down, I'm going down my way and that's why the TE situation is what it is.

 

[SoonerLou]

this is where I'm at.

I'm a Kyler supporter, but I genuinely think Kliff thought Kyler was better than he thought. Kyler doesnt consistently make those broken play passes to cover for the scheme flaws.

Kliff's first year I liked in that he realized his plan wasn't going to work so he shifted to playing more multiple TE sets. Last year he reverted a bit, he got D Hop and wanted to play with his new toy and he had injuries at TE so it seemed like we played them less although that may not be true. This year my guess is he decided if I'm on the hotseat I'm going down fighting with MY plan. I can't believe that we have no TE's other than Maxx for any other reason than Kliff told Keim it's not my priority, I've got my WR's and RB's I like and I'm going with that.

So this is the year for Kliff unless we luck into a TE or two he just doesn't have the guys on the roster to revert to more TE sets if the same issue happens. I think they decided to roll with what he wants, Hudson is a big add there. If it doesn't work, it's on Kliff.

My issue is I think Kyler has had pretty good success with TE's his first 2 years, we never play a FB, so basically his safety outlets now are just RB's. It's a big year for Kyler too he has lots of weapons he has to show improvement I'm just saying I think kliff decided if I'm going down, I'm going down my way and that's why the TE situation is what it is.

Yea its risky. I posted here about how at OU Kyler thrived more 2 TE's than 4 Wrs on the field. The run threat keeps defenses guessing enough and the talented TE's can make plays down the field. We'll see if he's finally ready to run a 4 wide offense.

 

[BritCard]

I'm a Kyler supporter, but I genuinely think Kliff thought Kyler was better than he thought. Kyler doesnt consistently make those broken play passes to cover for the scheme flaws.


Yea its risky. I posted here about how at OU Kyler thrived more 2 TE's than 4 Wrs on the field. The run threat keeps defenses guessing enough and the talented TE's can make plays down the field. We'll see if he's finally ready to run a 4 wide offense.

This is kinda where I'm at. On the one hand I think Kliff is a ball and chain that in some areas is holding Kyler back (transparent scheme, too much short, poor route designs etc etc) but on the other hand I think Kliff thought he was getting more from Kyler from day 1 and there's been some holes in Kyler's game Kliff wasn't expecting.

Kyler makes me think of an athlete in the Decathlon. He amazing at the 100m, Javelin, 400m, and Long Jump. He's ok at the shot put, 110 Hurdles and pole vault but absolute garbage at the discus, high jump and 1500 metres.

We all spend a lot of time glossing over the thing's he's really bad at that are holding the team back (Intermediate throws, YPA, scrambling out of bounds for losses, not stepping up in the pocket, 3rd down passes, passes inside our own 20, reading defenses etc) and focus on the stats he racks up with the things he's good at.

Some blame on both sides here but overall I'd say Kliff is holding Kyler back more than the other way around.

 

[SoonerLou]

This is kinda where I'm at. On the one hand I think Kliff is a ball and chain that in some areas is holding Kyler back (transparent scheme, too much short, poor route designs etc etc) but on the other hand I think Kliff thought he was getting more from Kyler from day 1 and there's been some holes in Kyler's game Kliff wasn't expecting.

Kyler makes me think of an athlete in the Decathlon. He amazing at the 100m, Javelin, 400m, and Long Jump. He's ok at the shot put, 110 Hurdles and pole vault but absolute garbage at the discus, high jump and 1500 metres.

We all spend a lot of time glossing over the thing's he's really bad at that are holding the team back (Intermediate throws, YPA, scrambling out of bounds for losses, not stepping up in the pocket, 3rd down passes, passes inside our own 20, reading defenses etc) and focus on the stats he racks up with the things he's good at.

Some blame on both sides here but overall I'd say Kliff is holding Kyler back more than the other way around.

Yea the thing is Kyler would improve his intermediate throws if we used more run action under center/maybe used more pistol formations. Develop the running game and he'll get those more clear throwing windows over the middle. Its the same for YPA because thats how you get deep passes down the field. Not too worried about stepping out of bounds. He just did that in a preseason game. I dont recall him doing that at all last year so he fixed that issue from his rookie year.

So scheme-wise you can overcome a few of those flaws. I just think Kliff wants to go down swinging with 10 personnel. And thats fine. Apparently Kyler has more made strides in practice. However, if our interior is still weak then its going to be some of the same issues.

I guess they are just counting on Kyler to stay healthy the entire year/elite running plus the talent outside should be enough to make the playoffs.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I’m 50/50 on Kyler as a SB caliber QB.

At same time I also wouldn’t let Kliff watch my dog so my opinion on Kyler is TBD until a moron who wouldn’t get the head coaching gig at NAU isn’t his coach.

HAHA

Mao coming out swinging tonight!

Yep!

this is where I'm at.

Me too.

 

[PACardsFan]

They save their best stuff for 3rd down vs every QB. They all face the same thing and he's still bottom two.

Kliff is a major factor. He has a massive tendency to play to the sticks anyway but on 3rd its dumb.

Agree 100% that KK plays way too close to the sticks on 3rd down. BA would drive me nuts at times attempting 40 yard passes on 3rd & 3. KK is the exact opposite. I would love to see more chunk plays in this offense. Our chunk plays are Murray escaping the rush & running for 30 yards. If KK doesn't get extended, I hope we find a coach who's offense incorporates some chunk plays in it! My biggest fear is that if we fire KK, we end up with Joseph as HC. That would be a typical Bidwill move. If our offense doesn't make the necessary strides & KK is fired, we better hope the D sucks too. I'd struggle mightily watching this team with Joseph as the HC.

 

[BritCard]

Agree 100% that KK plays way too close to the sticks on 3rd down. BA would drive me nuts at times attempting 40 yard passes on 3rd & 3. KK is the exact opposite. I would love to see more chunk plays in this offense. Our chunk plays are Murray escaping the rush & running for 30 yards. If KK doesn't get extended, I hope we find a coach who's offense incorporates some chunk plays in it! My biggest fear is that if we fire KK, we end up with Joseph as HC. That would be a typical Bidwill move. If our offense doesn't make the necessary strides & KK is fired, we better hope the D sucks too. I'd struggle mightily watching this team with Joseph as the HC.

I'm not sure he makes it as permanent HC. But I can see a scenario where we start 1-4 and Kliff gets fired with Vance taking over.

 

[Solar7]

I see no way that Joseph becomes our full on HC, but at the same time, I also don't believe that Keim keeps his job and we move on from Adrian Wilson and Quentin Harris if Kingsbury gets fired, so I know we all don't agree exactly here.

If we get to the point of firing Kliff, I hope we don't give Kyler too much input in the hiring process. He's still on a rookie contract. Let's find someone who can guide him with a firm hand, instead of being coach cool all the time. Kliff's love of Kyler leading up to this situation concerns me that Kliff can't coach with a stern hand or develop the kid.

 

[cardpa]

I personally believe Kyler is near his ceiling. As for playing in a pre season game if Kyler is the competitor they say he is, why would he poo poo on playing in a pre season game? I would think you want every chance to play and get your timing down so you go into the regular season ready to go and get some real game reps, get the juices flowing.

 

[Shane]

I personally believe Kyler is near his ceiling. As for playing in a pre season game if Kyler is the competitor they say he is, why would he poo poo on playing in a pre season game? I would think you want every chance to play and get your timing down so you go into the regular season ready to go and get some real game reps, get the juices flowing.

Yeah when you hear the announcer basically saying that Patrick Mahomes is all about it and knows nothing else… It’s kind of disheartening to hear that Kyler ‘s a baby about it. Lol

 

[BritCard]

Yeah when you hear the announcer basically saying that Patrick Mahomes is all about it and knows nothing else… It’s kind of disheartening to hear that Kyler ‘s a baby about it. Lol

Seems like an extension of their attitudes on the sideline

Mahomes on the sideline...

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Kyler on the sideline...

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[Krangodnzr]

I personally believe Kyler is near his ceiling. As for playing in a pre season game if Kyler is the competitor they say he is, why would he poo poo on playing in a pre season game? I would think you want every chance to play and get your timing down so you go into the regular season ready to go and get some real game reps, get the juices flowing.

Hes not at all near his ceiling, because of the struggles he has with a few basic elements of QB play.

 

[BritCard]

Hes not at all near his ceiling, because of the struggles he has with a few basic elements of QB play.

If he can fix those basic elements. If he can't then @cardpa might be right.