Do the Suns Really Need Another Project?

[George O'Brien]

I think the Suns have the foundation for a pretty good team. They have some missing pieces, but they could easily be a playoff contender next season even if none of their rookies have a breakout year.

My guess is that the Suns will sign a free agent guard. If a shooting guard, it will mean putting JJ at PG. If a PG, then JJ stays at SG. Assuming the Suns sign Vujanic, that would mean they would have six guards under contract: JJ, Leandro, Casey, Vujanic, Eisley, and the FA. Which ever kind of FA guard, the Suns will have Barbosa, Vujanic, and Eisley as backup PG's. I cannot understand how drafting a project PG makes this team any stronger.

The more likely prospect is that the Suns would draft a center. Okafor or Howard would be fine. But at the #7-#8 slot, the only big men available are very very young Euros. Since the Suns already have Lampe and Carbakapa as projects, do the Suns really need another project big guy to sit on the bench for two years?

I cannot see filling the roster up with more projects. I think they need guys who can contribute.

 

[JS22]

If Milos comes in then, really, I'm all for trading the pic for a vet. I don't know who, but I dont think this team needs more young players. I'm not looking foward to watching them become the clippers part 2.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Unless we can get Okafor I think I agree. I would want to use the pick to see if I could get rid of Eiesly if we can get rid of him I would be happy.

 

[devilalum]

If the league goes with the developmental league idea the draft will be a lot like baseball.

You will draft on potential with the idea that the players you draft today will contribute in 3-4 years. Teams that rely on the draft to fill immediate needs are in trouble.

For every Lebron or Amare there are least 10 Stephen Jackson's. Guys who have a lot of potential but just get in the way on an NBA team as rookies.

If you pass on Tracy McGrady you'll be sorry in 3-4 years when the senior you drafted is Casey Jacobson.

I'm sick of watching 18 year old prospects that have way more attitude than ability playing for lousy teams, celebrating every time they take a dump. The idea of them earning it in a developmental league is great and may save the league.

 

[devilalum]

If Milos comes in then, really, I'm all for trading the pic for a vet. I don't know who, but I dont think this team needs more young players. I'm not looking foward to watching them become the clippers part 2.

If the pick is worthless who's going to give the Suns a good player for it?

You also have to be careful you don't pass on Amare to get a more seasoned Jared Jeffries.

It seems like the best talent is skipping college. You just have to know which 18 year old is going to be the real deal.

If you find the next Kobe or McGrady its worth the wait.

Wasn't Kobe about the 13th player taken and McGrady 9th?

 

[JS22]

Im not saying the pic is worthless. But looking at this team RIGHT NOW what would help more? Another project, or someone like...oh...Eddie Jones? (Just throwing a name out there.)

This team needs a vet. Hey I like the draft as much as the next guy, but I think they will make a nice run next year if they can get an established veteran who can come in and contribute right away.

And we cant forget Kobe either.....

 

[JS22]

Also, who is to say milos wont be the "next big thing" ? If Milos comes I consider our pick as good as gone. The C's will trade it.

 

[khilari]

Im not saying the pic is worthless. But looking at this team RIGHT NOW what would help more? Another project, or someone like...oh...Eddie Jones? (Just throwing a name out there.)

This team needs a vet. Hey I like the draft as much as the next guy, but I think they will make a nice run next year if they can get an established veteran who can come in and contribute right away.

And we cant forget Kobe either.....

Looking at this years draft prospects there are no sure fire SuperStars that will come and help us out right away. I think the best thing for us to do is to draft a Big Man and hope that in couple of years is ready to help us out when Amare, JJ and Marion in their Prime for us to make a run. I don't think that Suns will be going after Kobe or anyone worth a long term Max contract.

 

[George O'Brien]

Looking at this years draft prospects there are no sure fire SuperStars that will come and help us out right away. I think the best thing for us to do is to draft a Big Man and hope that in couple of years is ready to help us out when Amare, JJ and Marion in their Prime for us to make a run.

Will he sit next to Lampe and Carbakapa?

Seriously, I like the potential of these two guys. But I'm not sure they are going to do much for the Suns next season. They will have good moments and good games, but they have a long way to go before they are ready to be part of the regular rotation. I'm not sure adding another Euro project makes sense unless one of these guys is a lot more NBA ready than their scouting reports suggest.

 

[F-Dog]

I cannot see filling the roster up with more projects. I think they need guys who can contribute.

You see this kind of Bowie-over-Jordan logic all the time from lousy front offices, but I expect better from the Suns.

What if one of these kids is the next McGrady? The next Kevin Garnett? Are you going to be sitting here five years from now saying, "I'm still glad we didn't draft (23-year-old perennial All-Star)--he would have just sat on the bench next to Lampe and Cabarkapa the first couple of years anyway"?


Even admitting that the Suns should draft for need instead of getting the BPA (with a pick that figures to be higher than the Amare and Marion picks), I don't think the Suns need to draft a player who can contribute immediately.

One of the reasons the Suns have no depth this year is because they have players who are expected to contribute next year or the year after--somebody is going to deserve extra minutes after this summer. (Another reason is injuries.) If there are still holes in the Suns' rotation after summer league, they've got an ass-load of money to spend on free agents to fill the team out. If the Suns are still thin after summer league and free agency, then so what? It's not like they're a 9th man away from winning a championship next year.

IMHO the best thing the Suns can do with their pick is draft yet another project. First, that's what will be available when they pick, and second, they're going to need a project or two to pan out eventually, and they'll have a better chance of that happening if they have a lot of projects, instead of trying to get lucky with just a few at a time.

 

[elindholm]

It's very difficult to tell in advance who will or won't be a "project." Stoudemire wasn't expected to be able to contribute immediately, but he did. LeBron James has, I think it's safe to say, surprised everyone with how easily he has made the transition to the NBA game.

But then you have someone like Cabarkapa who, based on his European reputation and his summer league play, seemed a good candidate to make an immediate impact. (Recall that many on this board were counting him as the key addition that would vault the Suns into a top-four playoff seed this season.)

Other teams have also drafted "ready" players who haven't panned out quite so quickly. Mike Dunleavy is starting to look like a player, but he showed very little last year, in spite of all of the hype about how a "coach's kid" would hit the ground running. One knowledgeable observer even picked Dunleavy to be the 2003 rookie of the year. (No, just kidding -- that was me.) Mike Sweetney was expected to help immediately and is only now getting regular playing time. Drew Gooden -- whom nbadraft.net compared to Jermaine O'Neal, if you can believe it -- still hasn't found his niche, even though I'd guess that most expect him to be a solid player one of these days.

My point is, I don't think it's constructive to worry about taking a "project." Aside from extreme cases like Milicic, you never know who will be ready right away and who won't.

 

[scotsman13]

Im not saying the pic is worthless. But looking at this team RIGHT NOW what would help more? Another project, or someone like...oh...Eddie Jones? (Just throwing a name out there.)

This team needs a vet. Hey I like the draft as much as the next guy, but I think they will make a nice run next year if they can get an established veteran who can come in and contribute right away.

And we cant forget Kobe either.....

think about this mcdyess maybe gone this shortly along with eisley and then our team will be a couple of years young then it is now. that means that whatever player you would trade for most like wouldnt be here when this team reachs its prime about 5 to 6 years from now. and even if they were they would be so old that they really wouldnt have a lot of value to the team at that point.


so back to the question do we want a project that will be reaching their prime around the same time as the rest of the team or do we want a vet that wont be there went we need him?

for me i am in favor of the project.

 

[George O'Brien]

think about this mcdyess maybe gone this shortly along with eisley and then our team will be a couple of years young then it is now. that means that whatever player you would trade for most like wouldnt be here when this team reachs its prime about 5 to 6 years from now. and even if they were they would be so old that they really wouldnt have a lot of value to the team at that point.

so back to the question do we want a project that will be reaching their prime around the same time as the rest of the team or do we want a vet that wont be there went we need him?

for me i am in favor of the project.

I am not really prepared to wait 5 or 6 years. I think the Suns have the talent to be a playoff team by next season and contend for the title within three years. They have some holes, but they have a solid core that just needs to learn to play defense. A guy that won't get minutes for three years or more will just be tying up cap space.

I'm open to persuasion if there is someone who can contribute more quickly. But every review I've read about the Euros is that they are just too young and not physically developed or skilled enough yet to play for quite a while.

 

[JS22]

we DONT need any more euros, especially if Milos comes over. Screw the draft unless we can get Okafor. We need a vet in here to give us that push. We are one player away from a 50+ win team.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

think about this mcdyess maybe gone this shortly along with eisley and then our team will be a couple of years young then it is now. that means that whatever player you would trade for most like wouldnt be here when this team reachs its prime about 5 to 6 years from now. and even if they were they would be so old that they really wouldnt have a lot of value to the team at that point.


so back to the question do we want a project that will be reaching their prime around the same time as the rest of the team or do we want a vet that wont be there went we need him?

for me i am in favor of the project.

I'm not too sure that this town will wait 5-6 years for this team to develope into a contender. My personal take on it, is that the Suns will trade the pick if it is anything other then the 1-2 pick. They will pick up a veteran to help win some games and instill some confidence into the young players. Another reason as to why they will probably go with the veteran, would be to fill up some of the empty seats at AWA.

 

[scotsman13]

I'm not too sure that this town will wait 5-6 years for this team to develope into a contender. My personal take on it, is that the Suns will trade the pick if it is anything other then the 1-2 pick. They will pick up a veteran to help win some games and instill some confidence into the young players. Another reason as to why they will probably go with the veteran, would be to fill up some of the empty seats at AWA.

i do think that the suns will be back in the playoffs next year, but i also feel that this team is at the soonest 4 years away from making a run for a championship. lampe is 19, amare and barbosa are just 21 years old, jj, milos and casey are 22, the old men of the core are marion and jake at 26. the peak of an nba player is from 26 to 30. during that time the player has learned to get the most out of their skills and refs, while their bodies havent started to brake down to much. this is the time frame at which if a team is going to make a run for a championship that it would normanly take place during this time. the spurs, lakers, rockets, bulls, pistons, and celts all won their champions with there superstars in their prime or just after.


as far as bring in some vets, yes i do think that the suns are going to bring in some vets. i dont think that they will bring in kobe. i think someone like camby or okur would be much more likely. everything and i do mean everything that this team has put out there lately doesnt seem to say that they are going to bring in a kobe type player. the things that have been coming out of the suns camp on the other hand seems to say that the suns are going to be staying with this core and build around it.

 

[Joe Mama]

Is really all comes down to trusting the Phoenix Suns Scouts. I guarantee it a have much better idea about the players that will be in this year's draft than we do, Chad Ford does, and especially those outdated reports on the NBAdraft.net web site do. I do not think they will trade the draft pick unless they will be dumping one of their bad contracts to go after specific free agents.

IMO these blanket statements about drafting young players are crazy. We don't really know which guys are going to be superstars down the road much less when they will actually contribute. Regarding Cabarkapa, there's no doubt in my mind he would have contributed much, much more if not for that injury. We all knew he would struggle on defense. His problem since his return has been his confidence in his outside shot. That is a direct result of that injury to his wrist on his shooting arm.

It's not as if the Phoenix Suns are going to be drafting 4-5 players. They are going to draft one guy. Who cares if he said that the end of the bench and develops? The Suns have a lot of money to spend this summer if they want some veterans.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to trading pick if the Phoenix Suns believe there's no one there as a future star or going to help immediately. I'm just saying they're Scouts have much, much better idea of the players who are going to be available and what they can do.

I don't know what's going to happen to Cabarkapa or Lampe. I do think both of them are going to contribute much more next season however, especially Lampe. He may not be the starting center, but I do believe he'll see significant minutes. I really think they're going to try to develop him and Amare Stoudemire into a great offensive combination. I only hope the coaches can get them both playing better defense though.

I can't wait for the expansion draft to get this whole thing rolling.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Five or six years? What "project" player has become good after that long? The only one I can think of is Jermaine O'Neal, which was a set of very unusual circumstances. There are plenty of other projects that have never shown much of anything, but that's a different problem.

The "project" concept is overrated. Most players need a couple of years to find their way in the league, no matter what their previous experience was. But if you have a player and a few years go by and it still hasn't clicked for him, he's not a "project." He's a "bust."

 

[khilari]

Will he sit next to Lampe and Carbakapa?

Seriously, I like the potential of these two guys. But I'm not sure they are going to do much for the Suns next season. They will have good moments and good games, but they have a long way to go before they are ready to be part of the regular rotation. I'm not sure adding another Euro project makes sense unless one of these guys is a lot more NBA ready than their scouting reports suggest.

Who do you think that we should draft who is not a project???? I don't think there is anyone in the draft who can come in and help us right away.

 

[scotsman13]

Five or six years? What "project" player has become good after that long? The only one I can think of is Jermaine O'Neal, which was a set of very unusual circumstances. There are plenty of other projects that have never shown much of anything, but that's a different problem.

elindholm, you misunderstand me. i am not saying it will take 5-6 years for a project player to reach his ability to bring something to the team. i am saying this team is 5 or 6 years away from reaching its peak and making a championship run. the core of this team is very young and you need to give this team time to develop into the team that they can be.

 

[elindholm]

i am not saying it will take 5-6 years for a project player to reach his ability to bring something to the team. i am saying this team is 5 or 6 years away from reaching its peak and making a championship run.

Ah, you're right, I didn't read carefully. Fair enough.

But ... if it takes five or six years for this team to become elite, "this team" won't exist. Everyone except Stoudemire will be gone long before then if they don't get better more quickly than that.

 

[George O'Brien]

i am not saying it will take 5-6 years for a project player to reach his ability to bring something to the team. i am saying this team is 5 or 6 years away from reaching its peak and making a championship run.

Ah, you're right, I didn't read carefully. Fair enough.

But ... if it takes five or six years for this team to become elite, "this team" won't exist. Everyone except Stoudemire will be gone long before then if they don't get better more quickly than that.

That's my point.

I am thinking about doing a piece about previous lottery picks and deciding which were busts. At first blush, it looks as if the probability of guy, not taken #1 or #2, who is 6'10" or taller appears to have about twice the chance of being a total bust than mid sized guys. Of the ones that succeed, they take three times as long to produce. It's really depressing.

It makes you marvel at the way Amare turned out.

 

[F-Dog]

I am thinking about doing a piece about previous lottery picks and deciding which were busts. At first blush, it looks as if the probability of guy, not taken #1 or #2, who is 6'10" or taller appears to have about twice the chance of being a total bust than mid sized guys. Of the ones that succeed, they take three times as long to produce. It's really depressing.

It makes you marvel at the way Amare turned out.

Any other year, you would have a point, but not this year.

This year the mid-sized guys are just as raw and just as likely to bust as the big guys.

 

[scotsman13]

That's my point.

I am thinking about doing a piece about previous lottery picks and deciding which were busts. At first blush, it looks as if the probability of guy, not taken #1 or #2, who is 6'10" or taller appears to have about twice the chance of being a total bust than mid sized guys. Of the ones that succeed, they take three times as long to produce. It's really depressing.

It makes you marvel at the way Amare turned out.

for the last 10 years the suns have had 44% of chance of finding a star (all-star or soon to be a all-star (amare)) out of the first round of the draft. marion, nash, finley, and amare have all been first round picks of the suns. if were to long at all the picks for the suns for the that time you find that the suns draft picks have feared much better then the nba average of 5 years. i would say that the only real bust that the suns have had in that time was malcom mackey. heck even oliver miller has played for well over the 5 years that is the nba average. i honestly think that it comes down to the suns doing their homework and creating a team where player can grow.

 

[George O'Brien]

for the last 10 years the suns have had 44% of chance of finding a star (all-star or soon to be a all-star (amare)) out of the first round of the draft. marion, nash, finley, and amare have all been first round picks of the suns. if were to long at all the picks for the suns for the that time you find that the suns draft picks have feared much better then the nba average of 5 years. i would say that the only real bust that the suns have had in that time was malcom mackey. heck even oliver miller has played for well over the 5 years that is the nba average. i honestly think that it comes down to the suns doing their homework and creating a team where player can grow.

The only are the Suns have had problems with is above cap free agents: Hardaway, Googs, and Longley.