Duh'mare

[Chris_Sanders]

Of course it wasnt a full game of long rebounds but there were more than usual. Like I said, his rebounding was not THAT bad today.

Sorry but if you can't admit that 3 defensive rebounds in 45 minutes of play from a power forward is a bad rebounding game I just stop reading. Your bias discredits everything else you are saying.

 

[mojorizen7]

Can someone enlighten me on why the suns didn't intentionally foul (Parker/Ginobli?) on the drive before kicking it out to Duncan for the tying 3 pt shot?
We were up 3 with not a whole lot of time left.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So Dantoni plays Skinner, why now and not during the year, I wonder. So he can say "See what happens when I play him, he didn't play well."

Ok genius but you play Barbosa and Diaw all year and when they dont play well.........

Skinner will be useful for saving Amare and Shaq fouls if nothing else.

How about you actually hold the players accountable for having a bad game instead of some rediculous notion that D'Antoni would be happy for Skinner playing an atrocious game and thus directly leading to a Suns playoff loss.

The reason Barbosa and Diaw play a lot is because they are the best players on the bench. Period. Giricek is also up there with him and that is why he has gotten immediate minutes since he arrived.

 

[cobbler]

who says I am not? sorry Chris I just don't think Amare blew this game because he took it to the hole. I would take a million stupid charges over a "smart" jumper. I am completely fine with a drive to the hoop, is that a crime?

I also think Amare is a inconsistent rebounder, but I don't think it's because of effort. I think it's because he is directionless on defense and has no clue.

My biggest issue with Amare was the previous turnover where he passed it weakly and got it stolen I thought it was a bad play, I also called him out for missing 4th quarter free throws on several occasions, I just don't buy into the theory that jump shots are better than driving to the hoop.

They are if you have to plow over a guy to get there. You take what the defense gives you!

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Sorry but if you can't admit that 3 defensive rebounds in 45 minutes of play from a power forward is a bad rebounding game I just stop reading. Your bias discredits everything else you are saying.

It has nothing to do with bias and everything to do with actually watching the game and noting rebounding position/where he is on the court/where the ball goes. I'm not just looking at numbers here. There were only a couple rebounds that he SHOULD have gotten that he didnt grab. I would give him a 5 or 6 out of 10 in the rebounding department today. You dont agree with me FINE. Doesnt mean you have to call me bias.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Can someone enlighten me on why the suns didn't intentionally foul (Parker/Ginobli?) on the drive before kicking it out to Duncan for the tying 3 pt shot?
We were up 3 with not a whole lot of time left.

No idea. If they had just defended Duncan it wouldn't be an issue. Guard the 3 point line. Why is that difficult?

 

[cobbler]

Can someone enlighten me on why the suns didn't intentionally foul (Parker/Ginobli?) on the drive before kicking it out to Duncan for the tying 3 pt shot?
We were up 3 with not a whole lot of time left.

For some reason, and i do NOT agree... but the majority of coaches dont like fouling in that situation. Happens a lot.

 

[SirStefan32]

Can someone enlighten me on why the suns didn't intentionally foul (Parker/Ginobli?) on the drive before kicking it out to Duncan for the tying 3 pt shot?
We were up 3 with not a whole lot of time left.

Not sure if it was in this thread of a different one today, but several of us wanted to know the same thing. 2 points didn't matter, definitely should have fouled.

 

[shazaam6]

I watched Amare and Shaq and Diaw get into foul trouble. I saw Manure and Parker get layup after layup at the end because of it. It is a whole game mentality for the spurs.

Just get us in foul trouble first, dont worry about the score-flop, hold, complain to the refs, do whatever to get the fouls first so they get layups later because we cant foul.(Like a boxer setting up for the knockout by hitting to the body in the early rounds so he can knock him out in the later rounds easier)

 

[cobbler]

No idea. If they had just defended Duncan it wouldn't be an issue. Guard the 3 point line. Why is that difficult?

Correct!!! That was shaqs fault. He backpeddled towards the basket when he should have confronted duncan at the 3 pt line. If duncun goes by you.... who cares? A 2 doenst hurt you. Mental error.

 

[SirStefan32]

They are if you have to plow over a guy to get there. You take what the defense gives you!

Exactly.

 

[mojorizen7]

No idea. If they had just defended Duncan it wouldn't be an issue. Guard the 3 point line. Why is that difficult?

Well thats the genius of the play though(setting up a 7' center for the shot). IMO you don't mess with the odds of the opponent making a 3. You simply take away their opportunity to do so.
Especially given the fragility of the SUNS perimeter defense.

 

[shazaam6]

How about you actually hold the players accountable for having a bad game instead of some rediculous notion that D'Antoni would be happy for Skinner playing an atrocious game and thus directly leading to a Suns playoff loss.

The reason Barbosa and Diaw play a lot is because they are the best players on the bench. Period. Giricek is also up there with him and that is why he has gotten immediate minutes since he arrived.

That is not what I implied........Dantoni is short sighted is my opinion. Skinner needs to be picking up fouls because the refs will call at least a certain amount.

Spread fouls around to 4 guys at center and power forward instead of 3.

 

[SirStefan32]

Well thats the genius of the play though(setting up a 7' center for the shot). IMO you don't mess with the odds of the opponent making a 3. You simply take away their opportunity to do so.
Especially given the fragility of the SUNS perimeter defense.

I really don't think Pop set that up. I think Duncan was there to set a screen, and possibly pass the basketball to somebody. He looked surprised when he got the basketball and nobody was guarding him.

Shaq made a mistake on that one. You just can't afford to let them shoot a 3. If they score 2, it's not a big deal. What really pissed me off is that this happened AFTER they gave Finley a 3 at the end of regulation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is getting ridiculous. You yourself have said in other posts you KNOW Amare isnt gonna make the smart play so you arent expecting him to do so. Yet you criticize him but not Barbosa. You arent expecting either of them to make the smart play yet you single out Amare. Contradicting yourself big time right here.

i've called Barbs an atrocious defender and compared him to Boris Diaw. how much more critical can someone get than throwing those barbs at him (pun intented.)

I expect MORE out of Amare. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

 

[cobbler]

I really don't think Pop set that up. I think Duncan was there to set a screen, and possibly pass the basketball to somebody. He looked surprised when he got the basketball and nobody was guarding him.

Shaq made a mistake on that one. You just can't afford to let them shoot a 3. If they score 2, it's not a big deal. What really pissed me off is that this happened AFTER they gave Finley a 3 at the end of regulation.

It was NOT a set play. Duncan was at the 3 to bring shaq out of the paint to clear space for manu to drive and draw a foul or kick to the open man if anyone was silly enough to leave theres at the 3 to double him while driveing for a worthless 2. When shaq hedged towards the key (a mistake) it left duncan wide open and manu recognized it. If shaq plays Duncan straight up, you win.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It has nothing to do with bias and everything to do with actually watching the game and noting rebounding position/where he is on the court/where the ball goes. I'm not just looking at numbers here. There were only a couple rebounds that he SHOULD have gotten that he didnt grab. I would give him a 5 or 6 out of 10 in the rebounding department today. You dont agree with me FINE. Doesnt mean you have to call me bias.

Out of 44 potential defensive rebounds (all defensive plus Spurs offensive) Amare grabbed 3. Coincidently he played 45 minutes so he averaged 1 defensive rebound per 15 minutes. The only other player on either team who was worse was Bruce Bowen.

That is 6% of potential defensive rebounds grabbed. I watched the same game you did and I saw a consistent lack of effort on Amare's part in denying post position and in pursuing loose balls.

Even by your own account, you score Amare with a 50% or 60%. That's a fail everywhere else but apparently in the playoffs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Out of 44 potential defensive rebounds (all defensive plus Spurs offensive) Amare grabbed 3. Coincidently he played 45 minutes so he averaged 1 defensive rebound per 15 minutes. The only other player on either team who was worse was Bruce Bowen.

That is 6% of potential defensive rebounds grabbed. I watched the same game you did and I saw a consistent lack of effort on Amare's part in denying post position and in pursuing loose balls.

Even by your own account, you score Amare with a 50% or 60%. That's a fail everywhere else but apparently in the playoffs.

seriously.

 

[mojorizen7]

Not sure if it was in this thread of a different one today, but several of us wanted to know the same thing. 2 points didn't matter, definitely should have fouled.

Sorry if it was. I left for work(about an hour late)immediately after the game. It was on my mind all night. I don't think enough coaches go that route. IMO it's simple mathematical strategy.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Out of 44 potential defensive rebounds (all defensive plus Spurs offensive) Amare grabbed 3. Coincidently he played 45 minutes so he averaged 1 defensive rebound per 15 minutes. The only other player on either team who was worse was Bruce Bowen.

That is 6% of potential defensive rebounds grabbed. I watched the same game you did and I saw a consistent lack of effort on Amare's part in denying post position and in pursuing loose balls.

Even by your own account, you score Amare with a 50% or 60%. That's a fail everywhere else but apparently in the playoffs.

Barbosa was our leading rebounder today... 'nuff said... Amare? pfffttt...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

BTW I feel like a sabermetrics baseball guy breaking down splits after that.

I still massively applaud Amare on the offensive end. I hope he brings that effort on both ends of the court next game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

BTW I feel like a sabermetrics baseball guy breaking down splits after that.

I still massively applaud Amare on the offensive end. I hope he brings that effort on both ends of the court next game.

if he wants to proclaim himself one of the best, he sure as hell needs to. There's two sides of the court. If Amre ever figured that out, he'd be the best PF of all time (a title which belongs to Duncan right now because he does exactly that - plays both sides of the court).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It doesn't matter who guarded Finley on that play. A downscreen was set off of a baseline move. When that is done, the defender of the man who is one the screener needs to switch off. That didn't happen and that is how Finely got his shot off and that is how Nash got his shot off at the end of the second overtime.

This is basketball 101 guys.

Yes I know I am quoting myself. I didn't complete this thought.

Who was guarding Oberto on this play btw? It was probably Diaw, Shaq, or Amare.

If it is Shaq, there is simply no way he can show on a switch from a baseline screen. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to do it.

If it was Amare, I would be amazed here as well if he could have made the play.

If it was Diaw, well then he has the ability to get there and contest the shot.

My guess it was Amare or Shaq and in that case you have to just had credit to Popovich for exploiting the Suns weakness and to Finley for making the shot.

And remember, we did the exact same thing and got the exact same results with Nash in the 2nd overtime. Each time the player had to hit a difficult shot. That's the way basketball is sometimes.

 

[82CardsGrad]

if he wants to proclaim himself one of the best, he sure as hell needs to. There's two sides of the court. If Amre ever figured that out, he'd be the best PF of all time (a title which belongs to Duncan right now because he does exactly that - plays both sides of the court).

Amare is "great"... Offensively... However, true great players don't get called for a charge at the point in the game and the place on the floor Amare did... True great players don't grab 3 boards in a HUGE playoof game... True great players don't allow their team to take a 24 second penalty with only 30-something seconds left in the game...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes I know I am quoting myself. I didn't complete this thought.

Who was guarding Oberto on this play btw? It was probably Diaw, Shaq, or Amare.

If it is Shaq, there is simply no way he can show on a switch from a baseline screen. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to do it.

If it was Amare, I would be amazed here as well if he could have made the play.

If it was Diaw, well then he has the ability to get there and contest the shot.

My guess it was Amare or Shaq and in that case you have to just had credit to Popovich for exploiting the Suns weakness and to Finley for making the shot.

And remember, we did the exact same thing and got the exact same results with Nash in the 2nd overtime. Each time the player had to hit a difficult shot. That's the way basketball is sometimes.

there was a hand right in Nash's face when he hit that shot. Amare never even made an attempt to move when Finley hit his with Barbs deep trailing. Everyone at my house and the announcers pointed out Amare's defense or lack thereof on that play.