Everything wrong with Kyler vs Seattle Part II - Revenge of the checkdown

[unseenaz]

Are you Kyler's Dad? It would explain why you're such a homer and how you don't understand football.

"Kyler's dad is a QB coach" is one of the funniest jokes I've ever heard.

Joined in 2021.. defends everything kyler does and passes blame to everyone else.. would make a lot of sense actually

 

[BritCard]

I've seen a couple of prevailing arguments on this thread.

That even if Kyler played great there are still other issues that mean we wouldn't be good. I disagree. Nothing effects on field performance like QB play. If Kyler plays how we have seen him play in the past then there is absolutely no reason we can't be better than the Seahawks. There are several games we should have won this year but didn't due to poor QB play. We ain't winning the Super Bowl, but we could win the division for sure.

The other is that some of these throws are tough throws. Well the answer to that would be how would we ever win a superbowl if Kyler can't make these throws? In fact, we've seen him make these throws. I just put on Kyler 2021 highlights and just in game 1 he made several throws better than anything he has done all year and tougher than most of the throws in these examples. If he can't make these throws why are we paying him like he can?

 

[PACardsFan]

I've shown a load of plays here where Kyler is clean.

As @Chopper0080 said, when you're on backup interior linemen you have to make the most of the 70% of plays they get right.

Murray is completing over 70% of his passes, with 6 touchdowns & 2 picks since Hop got back. So, he's obviously playing very well far more than he isn't. Bad snaps, poor blocking, collapsing pockets, no running space whatsoever. So, I would disagree 100% that our IOL is getting anything right 70% of the time. And yet, you prefer to show highlights that are not indicative of anything. Murray is playing for a poorly coached team with trash in the offensive trenches, and no running game. It's that simple. To put the onus of the blame on the QB here is a joke.

 

[Shane]

Murray is completing over 70% of his passes, with 6 touchdowns & 2 picks since Hop got back. So, he's obviously playing very well far more than he isn't. Bad snaps, poor blocking, collapsing pockets, no running space whatsoever. So, I would disagree 100% that our IOL is getting anything right 70% of the time. And yet, you prefer to show highlights that are not indicative of anything. Murray is playing for a poorly coached team with trash in the offensive trenches, and no running game. It's that simple. To put the onus of the blame on the QB here is a joke.

Come on bro it’s not hard to have a 70% completion percentage when 70% of your throws are under 5 yards lol…

 

[BritCard]

Murray is completing over 70% of his passes, with 6 touchdowns & 2 picks since Hop got back. So, he's obviously playing very well far more than he isn't. Bad snaps, poor blocking, collapsing pockets, no running space whatsoever. So, I would disagree 100% that our IOL is getting anything right 70% of the time. And yet, you prefer to show highlights that are not indicative of anything. Murray is playing for a poorly coached team with trash in the offensive trenches, and no running game. It's that simple. To put the onus of the blame on the QB here is a joke.

No he isn't playing well.

His YPA in those 3 games is 5.93. I'd expect any QB in the league to complete 70% of his passes at that YPA.

I've watched the whole first half of the game on All 22 and there are probably 2 plays where he doesn't have a decent pocket.

His year YPA is 6. If it was just a measley 7 (which would still put him below Zach Wilson and bottom half of the league) we would have an extra game and a half of yardage.

 

[HomerPimpson]

Murray has been at the top of or close to it the last two years in tight window pass completion %. To think he's suddenly forgotten how to do that is a fallacy. When you're on your 3rd center, and backups across the guard position, and they CONSTANTLY are making mistakes, it makes it very difficult for ANY QB to function at their peak. Have you watched the great QB's of the NFL of late. Most of them are struggling for the same reasons. Allen completed 52% of his passes last week & has 4 picks and 0 tds in the last 6 quarters. Mahomes went 8 straight series without generating a point, Herbert has looked pedestrian at best, Rodgers is playing like a rookie, and Burrow may set a record for being sacked this year. We are a poor football team, and would be significantly worse without Murray.

This is valid, but I'd like to point out that the plays I'm talking about he was well protected and simply chose to throw it to the other side of the field. I think one thing that's pertinent that everyone, including myself, is missing is sometimes (many times) there is more than one place to throw the ball. It could be Kyler is choosing the safest throw. Also, the screenshots with guys running open is a little misleading because in any given game there's guys running open. That's football. Whether guys are open or not isn't the whole story. If you blitz, by a purely numerical standard there is someone uncovered.

I hate to be that guy, but I think everyone is right: Kyler is playing poorly and the rest of this team is trash, including the coach and GM. It's the coach and GM's job to manage the team and that includes stabilizing a QB when he's having problems. Isn't that one thing we loved about BA? Palmer could throw 4 INT's and BA would be there Monday saying oh I told him to throw that out the brain, that's an anomaly, he's our guy. I don't hear anything remotely like that from Kliff. The one thing I did hear him say, as if he'd know, is that it's like having kids. Very helpful. Super insightful. Thanks coach. Murray is playing poorly but Kliff and Keim aren't the dudes to help him.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Another thing missing from any of these clips is any sort of play design that schemes open a target where the throw is supposed to go. You know, like the uncovered tight end plays that burned us over and over. Everything the offense does relies on a straight drop back and pass to a receiver who has to beat their coverage straight up. Watching most other offenses that have designed plays and watching our shotgun drop back vanilla offense is night and day. As a coach if what you're doing is not working, try to make it easier on your players. We just run it back every week hoping *this* is the week any receiver not named Hopkins somehow finds the requisite skill to get themselves open down field against a defense who knows exactly what's coming.

 

[kerouac9]

You look at these plays and see how far back the linebackers are dropped and you have to wonder why Kyler doesn't just run every down. Pick up four free yards at a clip and make life easier on yourself until they put a couple bodies in the middle.

Kyler likes to run for 20 yards and duck out of bounds but he's the running threat and a guy who is supposed to break the math. Seattle is daring him to run.

 

[kerouac9]

Yup. Tough but fair.

Oh wait. No. Sporty is the worst.

Ginger
Posh
Scary
Baby
Sporty

Fire away.

 

[BritCard]

This is valid, but I'd like to point out that the plays I'm talking about he was well protected and simply chose to throw it to the other side of the field. I think one thing that's pertinent that everyone, including myself, is missing is sometimes (many times) there is more than one place to throw the ball. It could be Kyler is choosing the safest throw. Also, the screenshots with guys running open is a little misleading because in any given game there's guys running open. That's football. Whether guys are open or not isn't the whole story. If you blitz, by a purely numerical standard there is someone uncovered.

I hate to be that guy, but I think everyone is right: Kyler is playing poorly and the rest of this team is trash, including the coach and GM. It's the coach and GM's job to manage the team and that includes stabilizing a QB when he's having problems. Isn't that one thing we loved about BA? Palmer could throw 4 INT's and BA would be there Monday saying oh I told him to throw that out the brain, that's an anomaly, he's our guy. I don't hear anything remotely like that from Kliff. The one thing I did hear him say, as if he'd know, is that it's like having kids. Very helpful. Super insightful. Thanks coach. Murray is playing poorly but Kliff and Keim aren't the dudes to help him.

No team has top class 3rd string players so with Pugh, Hudson and Hernandez out its no surprise the interior will struggle.

Hollywood is out. Garcia, Hump, Gardeck, Conner, Lawrence, McCoy, Prater, Wesley and Darrel Williams have all missed significant time.

That's not to say this roster is world beating but its at least as good as last year. Any team would struggle with these injuries.

There are definitely things to blame Keim and Kliff for. Putting Hayes on season ending IR was dumb (he's been practicing for weeks). The trades have been garbage. We should never run screens. Our run game is poor.

But for me all that is a side note with good QB play. Good QB play is the most important factor by far.

Its why the contenders are always the teams with the best QBs and teams like the Bengals made the SB.

Bengals is the prime example. Garbage owner/GM and a HC that is chunkier Kliff.

 

[DVontel]

I've seen a couple of prevailing arguments on this thread.

That even if Kyler played great there are still other issues that mean we wouldn't be good. I disagree. Nothing effects on field performance like QB play.

This is funny to believe when poor QB play from the Jets still has them playing great ball.

Or the Patriots

Or the Titans

Or the Cowboys without Dak.

 

[BritCard]

Oh wait. No. Sporty is the worst.

Ginger
Posh
Scary
Baby
Sporty

Fire away.

I was getting concerned about your taste there.

 

[DVontel]

Put Kyler & Kliff bickering to the side.


We all know 3 people at most did, but did anyone else legitimately this roster was as good as last year?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I mentioned this in the game thread week before last. I saw this happen twice just watching on TV, where Hopkins was stacking his defender like a pro, all Kyler has to do is throw to the open part of the field and it's an easy completion. This play looks covered on tape but with leverage it's an easy completion. I have to believe when they wanted Kyler to study they didn't mean the playbook, they mean (I believe) throwing guys open, reading leverages, hots, etc, stuff he should already know. He clearly doesn't or he would make some of these passes IMO.

That being said a new QB doesn't fix this dumpster fire.

If I were Michael Bidwill I'd throw the bank at Kurt Warner to coach Kyler in some form or fashion.

 

[urs]

If I were Michael Bidwill I'd throw the bank at Kurt Warner to coach Kyler in some form or fashion.

He won't, but I agree. Kyler needs a teacher, something Kliff clearly isn't...also needs someone to tell it like it is and Kurt fits that mold. Sean payton would work too, even better, doubt Michael throws the money at him it would take though

 

[BritCard]

On the plus side I thought Leccy Smith did well at LG. Looked solid through the first half. Not done 2nd yet.

 

[PACardsFan]

Come on bro it’s not hard to have a 70% completion percentage when 70% of your throws are under 5 yards lol…

If it were that easy, more people would do it. When your pocket is collapsed as badly as ours routinely is, who have to take what the defense gives you.

 

[unseenaz]

If it were that easy, more people would do it. When your pocket is collapsed as badly as ours routinely is, who have to take what the defense gives you.

More people don’t do it because throws of 5 yards don’t win football games.

 

[BritCard]

If it were that easy, more people would do it. When your pocket is collapsed as badly as ours routinely is, who have to take what the defense gives you.

Its really not collapsing routinely.

Where is it collapsing in all the examples I posted? Statistically he's been cleaner this season than all previous years.

He's 24th in the league for pressure.

 

[kerouac9]

This is funny to believe when poor QB play from the Jets still has them playing great ball.

Or the Patriots

Or the Titans

Or the Cowboys without Dak.

Those teams have been designed for years (excepting Dallas -- who has had to live with it for a couple years) to succeed without a big, expensive QB. The Cards have essentially been custom-fit as a performance vehicle for Kyler since he arrived here.

I agree, Keim should be fired.

 

[DaHilg]

Its really not collapsing routinely.

Where is it collapsing in all the examples I posted? Statistically he's been cleaner this season than all previous years.

He's 24th in the league for pressure.

You’re comical.. he’s #1 in hurried bc of pressure in a league by a wide margin. Keep changing the stats

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Putting Hayes on season ending IR was dumb (he's been practicing for weeks).

Never understood this move

Head scratcher for sure

 

[BritCard]

Never understood this move

Head scratcher for sure

He looked good in preseason. There was reason to put him on IR and he's been practicing since about week 3.

Then we waste a 5th on a sack of crap like Cody Ford when Hayes would be better.

 

[SoonerLou]

I mean…no disrespect Lou, but isn’t every QB to play football at any level is like this? lol

The really good ones can still rely on good footwork and the benefit of being taller to still find throwing lanes.
Its been true since his rookie year, but its not that Kyler doesnt make great plays when the interior sucks. He just doesnt make the plays to extend drives. A throw away, a dump off, etc. Helping a drive be 2nd and 7 instead of 2nd and 18.

 

[DaHilg]

The really good ones can still rely on good footwork and the benefit of being taller to still find throwing lanes.
Its been true since his rookie year, but its not that Kyler doesnt make great plays when the interior sucks. He just doesnt make the plays to extend drives. A throw away, a dump off, etc. Helping a drive be 2nd and 7 instead of 2nd and 18.

I’m pretty sure we’ve seen the greats either suck this year or in recent years w crap Oline play - Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes and Herbie.

They’ve all shown to be not so super human when they’re missing significant Oline starters. (And no Stout, Kyler isn’t on these guys level..just means of these guys look like crap when missing 2 starters on the Oline, what do we expect of a lesser Kyler missing 3 Oline starters, having Beachum at RT and Kliffy calling plays? What do we expect honestly? I’d expect more if we had creative schemes and were rolling Kyler out consistently a la RW3 Seattle days.. but we aren’t. I don’t know why as we have player who is much faster than RW3 and enough speed at WR to develop schemes where the more time we have they should easily get separation).

It’s wild and bafffling