Game of Thrones (HBO)

[Cheesebeef]

Teasing only half the Tower of Joy so you keep the viewers coming back isn't schmuck bait? Please elaborate.

Also, what would you think if nothing else about Dorne is mentioned in the finale, or if they don't show the denouement of the Tower of Joy drama? From a story telling perspective, of course.

I'll be honest, I watch every episode and I have no idea what you're even talking about with the Tower Of Joy. Does that have to do with Dorne? If so... okay. Yes, they dropped that story-line, and that makes for bad story-telling, but it's not what we call schmuck-bait.

Killing Jon Snow at the end of the season... only to bring him back one episode later... THAT'S Schmuck-Bait. They'll get back to Dorne (I assume!), but it's not the first time they've just dropped a story-line (see pretty much all of Bran's run on the show).

 

[Stout]

I'll be honest, I watch every episode and I have no idea what you're even talking about with the Tower Of Joy. Does that have to do with Dorne? If so... okay. Yes, they dropped that story-line, and that makes for bad story-telling, but it's not what we call schmuck-bait.

Killing Jon Snow at the end of the season... only to bring him back one episode later... THAT'S Schmuck-Bait. They'll get back to Dorne (I assume!), but it's not the first time they've just dropped a story-line (see pretty much all of Bran's run on the show).

The Tower of Joy item in question is a vision Bran had of what happened when Ned Stark, Howland Reed and company went to rescue Ned's sister Lyanna. They did a big duel/battle scene, showed Ned striding up the stairs, a woman screams from within, and...end scene, and we've never been back to the vision again. I'm pretty sure that's schmuck bait, so I'm using it correctly.

What I'm referring to with Dorne is that there's a murder of an enemy royal, the murder of their own lord, all so they can march to war...a HUGE plot point...that has never been followed up on.

 

[oaken1]

The Tower of Joy item in question is a vision Bran had of what happened when Ned Stark, Howland Reed and company went to rescue Ned's sister Lyanna. They did a big duel/battle scene, showed Ned striding up the stairs, a woman screams from within, and...end scene, and we've never been back to the vision again. I'm pretty sure that's schmuck bait, so I'm using it correctly.

What I'm referring to with Dorne is that there's a murder of an enemy royal, the murder of their own lord, all so they can march to war...a HUGE plot point...that has never been followed up on.

if you look at the developing storylines it looks like the show is going to turn into a "she-power" show.... we have Daenarys,...now teamed up with the homely Greyjoy chick,...the hooker in dorne who killed the prince is apparently planning to rule there with her daughters,...at least the daughters have blood claim to the throne...we have arya who has been turned into a fairly bona-fide badass,...and now we have the whimpering Sansa developing so much backbone and grit that she is willing to feed a living man to ravenous dogs...and lets not forget the tough little Lady Mormont, lol...behind the scenes we also have the queen, margeary Tyrell... who definitely has something up her sleeve despite her apparent commitment to the faith.(most likely ridding the world of Cersei)
that is a very healthy lineup of "strong female protagonists" Brienne of Tarth may yet play a major role in the development of the seven kingdoms as well.

Jon is the strongest remaining male character...he may end up sitting side by side with Daenarys on the iron throne as the targaryans were wont to do..... Jamie Lannister is fading but likely still has a role to play,....Tyrion, I think, will end this tale as lord of Casterly Rock and much to the dismay of Tywins spirit...will be responsible for carrying on the Lannister legacy. The spider of course will contribute something... I also think in the end, Tormund GiantsBane will be granted a keep...most likely the dreadfort...aka...house Bolton...

as for dorne...at this point it is hard to determine if they are even needed for the war... Dany has around fifty thousand men...and three dragons.... the two strongest remaining armies in the seven kingdoms are the Lannisters and the Tyrells... together only about thirty thousand? Should we count the Faith Militant among those who will defend Kings Landing? Dorne may actually arrive at Kings Landing just in time to bend the knee to Dany...

 

[TJ]

https://twitter.com/hypnoross/status/745794008266452992

 

[Shaggy]

Why do they make the 2nd to last show before the finally huge? Red Wedding and now this one? I would have thought the red wedding would have been the finally and this one would have been a great finally as well.

 

[oaken1]

Why do they make the 2nd to last show before the finally huge? Red Wedding and now this one? I would have thought the red wedding would have been the finally and this one would have been a great finally as well.

These days...with these particular show runners...rather than use the finale to tie up loose ends, they want to use the finale to set you up for next season.

 

[SO91]

The Tower of Joy item in question is a vision Bran had of what happened when Ned Stark, Howland Reed and company went to rescue Ned's sister Lyanna. They did a big duel/battle scene, showed Ned striding up the stairs, a woman screams from within, and...end scene, and we've never been back to the vision again. I'm pretty sure that's schmuck bait, so I'm using it correctly.

What I'm referring to with Dorne is that there's a murder of an enemy royal, the murder of their own lord, all so they can march to war...a HUGE plot point...that has never been followed up on.

I get your issue with Dorne, but looking at the plot lines they did touch this season, there was no way they squeeze everything in and not screw it up more than they already have. The Crown is kind of busy right now, with the Queen in prison for a big chunk of the season, the Tyrell and Lannisters not exactly aligned for a common purpose, and the King getting manipulated by just about anyone that tries to. I don't think marching on Dorne to avenge the Princess' murder was prudent, not while quelling rebellion in the Riverlands. If Cercei gets past the trial and things settle down a bit, and they still don't address Myrcella's murder, then I'm with you in the criticism.

 

[Covert Rain]

I get your issue with Dorne, but looking at the plot lines they did touch this season, there was no way they squeeze everything in and not screw it up more than they already have. The Crown is kind of busy right now, with the Queen in prison for a big chunk of the season, the Tyrell and Lannisters not exactly aligned for a common purpose, and the King getting manipulated by just about anyone that tries to. I don't think marching on Dorne to avenge the Princess' murder was prudent, not while quelling rebellion in the Riverlands. If Cercei gets past the trial and things settle down a bit, and they still don't address Myrcella's murder, then I'm with you in the criticism.

Agree. No way to do Dorne any justice. To move that plot along you would have to spend an entire episode or at the very least half an episode to get that back on track. I don't need to see it at all to have a good finale. Although, I have a feeling just like most seasons the finale will be blah. They always seem to save the best for the episode before the finale.

 

[Stout]

I'm not talking about anything major. There's fat this season that could have been trimmed, to give us a few moments for Cersei to rage at her impotence at being unable to attack her daughters murderers, or to at least give the Sand Snakes a scene addressing their troops to consolidate power. We're talking like five minutes of screen time and no major action. It would have been a bare minimum to allow the plot line to simmer throughout the season, but it at least would have been SOMETHING. Getting nothing, no mention of it at ALL on either end, has been just plain stupid.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm not talking about anything major. There's fat this season that could have been trimmed, to give us a few moments for Cersei to rage at her impotence at being unable to attack her daughters murderers, or to at least give the Sand Snakes a scene addressing their troops to consolidate power. We're talking like five minutes of screen time and no major action. It would have been a bare minimum to allow the plot line to simmer throughout the season, but it at least would have been SOMETHING. Getting nothing, no mention of it at ALL on either end, has been just plain stupid.

Please, you would have complained about it being only 5 minutes and that would have been stupid.

 

[Stout]

Please, you would have complained about it being only 5 minutes and that would have been stupid.

Hmm, ignoring the topic for insults? I kind of hear that 'wah wah wah' noise the adults made in Peanuts, because they weren't important.

 

[Chaplin]

Hmm, ignoring the topic for insults? I kind of hear that 'wah wah wah' noise the adults made in Peanuts, because they weren't important.

And you didn't deny it, did you?

 

[SO91]

I think a 5 minute mention would have been cheap, and wouldn't have fixed anything that they've already screwed up. The whole Dorne plot was bad, pretty much the whole way through. I don't think going back to it for only a few minutes to throw you, me, and the fans a bone would have accomplished anything, other than pissing us off.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Tower of Joy item in question is a vision Bran had of what happened when Ned Stark, Howland Reed and company went to rescue Ned's sister Lyanna. They did a big duel/battle scene, showed Ned striding up the stairs, a woman screams from within, and...end scene, and we've never been back to the vision again. I'm pretty sure that's schmuck bait, so I'm using it correctly.

yeah... I didn't give a crap about that and to be honest, don't even care. it's in the past. And they'll probably get back to it at some point.

Schmuck bait isn't showing something and then never getting back to it and waiting an eternity to do so. Schmuck bait is "Is John Snow really dead?" Or a commercial break on the TWD where Glenn's cornered for the umpteenth time and they go to black. It's called Schmuck bait because it's a terrible writer's clutch where you can't come up with anything good to end your act or episode, so you throw something in there to raise the stakes that you KNOW won't come to fruition and the only reason you've done so it to make the really gullible portions of your audience have to come back for more.

Simply dropping a story for a while? That's not in any way shape or form schmuck bait as is discussed in writer's rooms. And that's not even dropping a story-line... it's dropping a story in a single flashback.

 

[Stout]

yeah... I didn't give a crap about that and to be honest, don't even care. it's in the past. And they'll probably get back to it at some point.

Schmuck bait isn't showing something and then never getting back to it and waiting an eternity to do so. Schmuck bait is "Is John Snow really dead?" Or a commercial break on the TWD where Glenn's cornered for the umpteenth time and they go to black. It's called Schmuck bait because it's a terrible writer's clutch where you can't come up with anything good to end your act or episode, so you throw something in there to raise the stakes that you KNOW won't come to fruition and the only reason you've done so it to make the really gullible portions of your audience have to come back for more.

Simply dropping a story for a while? That's not in any way shape or form schmuck bait as is discussed in writer's rooms. And that's not even dropping a story-line... it's dropping a story in a single flashback.

Gotcha. I guess I was viewing it as kind of unfulfilled schmuck bait, which it wasn't really.

 

[Stout]

And you didn't deny it, did you?

Depends on how they did it

I think a 5 minute mention would have been cheap, and wouldn't have fixed anything that they've already screwed up. The whole Dorne plot was bad, pretty much the whole way through. I don't think going back to it for only a few minutes to throw you, me, and the fans a bone would have accomplished anything, other than pissing us off.

It wouldn't have fixed anything, but it would at minimum keep us, the audience, in touch, and not fumble the football altogether by throwing the plot out altogether. I mean, you either cut Dorne out, or you have to follow it up. You can't just throw it in at the beginning of the season and just abandon it. I mean, it sucks the way they did it and, based on that, it would probably suck anyway, but it's a case of them digging the hole, and having to deal with it. Sticking their heads into the hole ostrich-style shouldn't really have been an option

 

[Chaplin]

Depends on how they did it



It wouldn't have fixed anything, but it would at minimum keep us, the audience, in touch, and not fumble the football altogether by throwing the plot out altogether. I mean, you either cut Dorne out, or you have to follow it up. You can't just throw it in at the beginning of the season and just abandon it. I mean, it sucks the way they did it and, based on that, it would probably suck anyway, but it's a case of them digging the hole, and having to deal with it. Sticking their heads into the hole ostrich-style shouldn't really have been an option

Well, there's still one episode left....

 

[oaken1]

Depends on how they did it



It wouldn't have fixed anything, but it would at minimum keep us, the audience, in touch, and not fumble the football altogether by throwing the plot out altogether. I mean, you either cut Dorne out, or you have to follow it up. You can't just throw it in at the beginning of the season and just abandon it. I mean, it sucks the way they did it and, based on that, it would probably suck anyway, but it's a case of them digging the hole, and having to deal with it. Sticking their heads into the hole ostrich-style shouldn't really have been an option

finally figure it out.... ya know...I really would like to see that cute little sand snake again too...maybe even get a nude scene out of it...would be pretty cool if Bronn actually got a piece of that....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Gotcha. I guess I was viewing it as kind of unfulfilled schmuck bait, which it wasn't really.

Ya. Not the best story-telling there.

I'm with ya on completely ignoring the ramifications of Dorne from a purely story perspective and character shade with Cersei. But at the same time, that storyline has been so poorly done, that I don't really care either.

 

[Covert Rain]

So evidently Game of Thrones is one of the only television shows to grow it's audience each of it's first 6 years in existence. That's pretty amazing to grow your audience each year.

Spoiler: By the way those Sansa prego rumors?

False. The show runners have come out and shot that down. I guess even they thought that would be too cruel. LOL.

 

[Cheesebeef]

just a question... but what exactly story-wise is coming to a head in the finale? Cersei's trial? Is that a thing? The high sparrow story has bored me so much I don't even know where things stand there. I mean, it doesn't seem like there's any big play for Dany to make now, right, after she just kicked the Harpy's asses? And where is Jaime going now?

I guess... maybe they wrap up Bran somehow, but I could care less there also.

Man... I could care less about a lot in this show right now. That ain't good!

 

[oaken1]

just a question... but what exactly story-wise is coming to a head in the finale? Cersei's trial? Is that a thing? The high sparrow story has bored me so much I don't even know where things stand there. I mean, it doesn't seem like there's any big play for Dany to make now, right, after she just kicked the Harpy's asses? And where is Jaime going now?

I guess... maybe they wrap up Bran somehow, but I could care less there also.

Man... I could care less about a lot in this show right now. That ain't good!

my guess is that cersei's trial, and Jamie arriving back in KL with the lannister army just in time to save her, is the biggest conclusion we will get... then maybe a moment of arya heading back to westeros...a touch of bran.... and maybe some info on what the spider is up to with his "secret mission"...I would also like it if they spent a moment with the hound before the season ends. we are beyond the books so it is just guess work at this point...
hmmm,...we also left last week with davos hunting down the red witch...likely to make her answer for the burning of little lady baratheon..... and I also think we will see Loras Tyrell executed by the faith.

 

[Cheesebeef]

my guess is that cersei's trial, and Jamie arriving back in KL with the lannister army just in time to save her, is the biggest conclusion we will get... then maybe a moment of arya heading back to westeros...a touch of bran.... and maybe some info on what the spider is up to with his "secret mission"...I would also like it if they spent a moment with the hound before the season ends. we are beyond the books so it is just guess work at this point...
hmmm,...we also left last week with davos hunting down the red witch...likely to make her answer for the burning of little lady baratheon..... and I also think we will see Loras Tyrell executed by the faith.

oh yeah... that's what Jaime's been doing.

Is Loras the brother? Man, there's a lot of characters I don't give a crap about anymore.

 

[oaken1]

oh yeah... that's what Jaime's been doing.

Is Loras the brother? Man, there's a lot of characters I don't give a crap about anymore.

yeah, Loras is the queens brother, being persecuted for homosexuality....pretty sure he is screwed at this point.

 

[Covert Rain]

I have been enjoying the manipulation of the High Sparrow myself. The show pretty much has hit on all the parts I care about this season. The one character I wanted more of is Little Finger.

P.S. I will say though that there never can be enough of TWWs.