Give me ANYTHING, that convinces me that Kolb has more upside than Skelton

[Duckjake]

WTF thread did you read?



You act like I made a thread that said "OMG, Skelton is the best ever.. He should be our starter for the next decade!!"

Certain people are extremely upset that their aggressively rude homerism has been rendered impotent by the performance of the football team this season.

So you can expect these type of attacks on your posts if they are in any way negative toward our stellar 2-6 football team.

 

[Phrazbit]

So you're refuting the rumors/reports that he pointed out as evidence with other rumors. Brilliant!!

Im even using the "rumors" to justify my point. After the Seahawks signed Tavaris what team was a realistic candidate to trade for him? Every team in the league except for MAYBE Miami had, for better or worse, addressed their QB situation. And Miami made it perfectly clear they were not interested in trading for anyone.

 

[Phrazbit]

Certain people are extremely upset that their aggressively rude homerism has been rendered impotent by the performance of the football team this season.

So you can expect these type of attacks on your posts if they are in any way negative toward our stellar 2-6 football team.

Seriously, you try to make a point about something that is happening right in front of our faces every sunday and you get ripped apart, not because what you are saying is wrong... but because you have the gall to say it.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Kolb is a little more accurate?

Skelton looks about like he did last year. Not too special. But to be fair, he made more plays then Kolb has in the last few games.

Landry Jones anyone?

 

[Phrazbit]

Kolb is a little more accurate?

Skelton looks about like he did last year. Not too special. But to be fair, he made more plays then Kolb has in the last few games.

Landry Jones anyone?

Kolb being "slightly" more accurate is the only claim that can be said in his favor. Yet Skelton is much much more accurate when throwing down field. But if you need a 4 yard completion on 3rd and 8, Kolb is your man.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Im even using the "rumors" to justify my point. After the Seahawks signed Tavaris what team was a realistic candidate to trade for him? Every team in the league except for MAYBE Miami had, for better or worse, addressed their QB situation. And Miami made it perfectly clear they were not interested in trading for anyone.

Well, it was "rumored" that the principles of the trade were agreed upon during that 24 hour window aroud draft day, or earlier. So there were plenty of teams interetsed at that point. Remember Dan Patrick saying Kolb had already been traded to the Cards? But you'll probably disregard those because they don't suit your thinking. Besides, you're not naive enough to think teams/players/agents didn't talk during the lockout, or supposed non-contact times are you? Or, do you really think in years past, that guys like Albert Hayneworth signed $100 million contracts within 2 hours of free agency starting?

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

NFL contracts mean pretty much nothing as they aren't guaranteed. While it looks good for the agent, the truth is it doesn't mean anything

It's more of a statement on how dumb this organization really is. Kolb has done nothing in his career to ever even warrant consideration for that type of contract, but the Cards FO volunteered to give him one. One of the biggest FA busts in the past decade. Cards can't pay the likes of Boldin, Rolle, Dansby etc... But they would be happy to sign a mediocre back up QB for those 3 players combined, practically. Ultimate failure.

 

[conraddobler]

The thing everyone misses and thoroughly I might add is that Kolb was handed the keys and Skelton for right or wrong has the scraps.

Once you factor that in, IMO it's not even close, Skelton did what he did with far fewer reps with the team, less experience and the knowledge this is only temporary.

He now has as many wins as Kolb.

The upside between the two is all with Skelton.

He has a stronger arm, he's taller and he's not scared.

He's a lot more raw but that you can fix.

We should play him the rest of the year and probably still draft a QB anyhow.

I know when I watch him I have hope, when I watch Kolb I have despair, that's about all I know.

 

[Evil Ash]

Im even using the "rumors" to justify my point. After the Seahawks signed Tavaris what team was a realistic candidate to trade for him? Every team in the league except for MAYBE Miami had, for better or worse, addressed their QB situation. And Miami made it perfectly clear they were not interested in trading for anyone.

You make alot of assumptions with your theory. You assume that only a few teams were in the market for a qb and that those were listed to everyone. You have no idea who was in the running for him. Not alot of people do and those that do weren't really talking. I know its crazy to think that some things don't go as rumored I mean we all knew for an absolute fact that Nnamdi was going to the Eagles at the start of FA.

I honestly believe that if we lost the game today, you would have found someway to blame it on Kolb. Your obsession with the guy is downright frightening

 

[Duckjake]

Kolb being "slightly" more accurate is the only claim that can be said in his favor. Yet Skelton is much much more accurate when throwing down field. But if you need a 4 yard completion on 3rd and 8, Kolb is your man.

But Pbit, so were Leinart, Anderson, Hall, and Bartel. If you have a parade of Captain Checkdowns over a 24 game stretch at the QB position doesn't that tell you that you have the worst offensive scheme and/or the worst WR group, or pass protection schemes, or a combination of all 3, in NFL history?

I agree that getting Kolb was like paying a Ferrari price for a Ford but when every single QB since Warner has been a failure it can't just be him. Can it?

 

[Evil Ash]

It's more of a statement on how dumb this organization really is. Kolb has done nothing in his career to ever even warrant consideration for that type of contract, but the Cards FO volunteered to give him one. One of the biggest FA busts in the past decade. Cards can't pay the likes of Boldin, Rolle, Dansby etc... But they would be happy to sign a mediocre back up QB for those 3 players combined, practically. Ultimate failure.

Pace was given a contract that many on this board thought was massively overpaying him and that he did nothing to warrant it. Kinda miss him now don't we?

We have no idea what Kolb is because of the complete and utter joke of an offensive line we have. In the first 2 weeks, he was rated a top 5 QB. What happened since then? He's getting his ass kicked every time he goes backward. He's since gotten happy feet which has made the situation worse and our coaching staff does nothing to correct any of the problems on O - only sticking with the "the system works"

 

[Phrazbit]

Well, it was "rumored" that the principles of the trade were agreed upon during that 24 hour window aroud draft day, or earlier. So there were plenty of teams interetsed at that point. Remember Dan Patrick saying Kolb had already been traded to the Cards? But you'll probably disregard those because they don't suit your thinking. Besides, you're not naive enough to think teams/players/agents didn't talk during the lockout, or supposed non-contact times are you? Or, do you really think in years past, that guys like Albert Hayneworth signed $100 million contracts within 2 hours of free agency starting?

If that were true then why didnt they execute the trade on the day free agency started? And even if they did discuss the framework of a trade WHO CARES!!! By the time free agency started there was no market for him! Its like agreeing to a stock purchase, and not having it executed for a week, then paying a week old market price.

So either they overpaid because no one else wanted him or they overpaid because they have no idea how negotiate? Either way its an embarrassment.

 

[TJ]

Came back for a minute because I knew this was going to be a topic of debate. To the OP, there is nothing I can say to convince you seeing as you have your mind made up already. The trouble I'm having is many on this board were giving Kolb up to a year to digest the system and somehow are already kicking him to the curb. Look, I'm as furious as everyone else that he has underperformed as much as he has, but I also know this team has problems that are above and beyond the quarterbacks, including but not limited to the tackle positions, play calling, and failure to play until the clock hits "0:00."

First, what about today makes you think Skelton is the answer let alone any better than Kolb? Skelton, like Kolb, had some moments today that made me think he would do something special, but then he had a few throws or decisions that made me want to throw my remote across the room. Skelton had some gorgeous pin point passes through defenders that hit guys like Doucet and Roberts. And he did target Larry 12 times; however, only connected on four. Many of those throws were behind him and a couple sailed over his head. When a QB passes to Fitz that many times and only connects on 1/3 of them, that's not on Larry.

Second, the problem regarding pass protection was not rectified showing that a significant part of our offensive struggles begin in the trenches. A couple of times, Skelton was completely unaware of the unabated rusher coming from his blind side. In the first half, Skelton was leveled by Robert Quinn and had no idea he was there until he was on the ground. It happened again on the first safety. His pocket presence improved as the game progressed but back-to-back safties is completely inexcusable.

Third, look at the complete offensive statistics. 262 total yards, 6.3 YPA, and 16 first downs shouldn't by any stretch of the imagination trigger a QB debate. I was hoping Skelton would light up the scoreboard and win Fed Ex Air Passer of the Week so I could have a reason to want him behind center for the season and create a true controversy, but this game did not exactly give him a ringing endorsement. The solution, like it or not, is to get Kolb back in there when he is healthy and hope he works out his problems and continues to grow into the offense.

Side note: I'm glad defense and special teams showed up to the party today. I love watching P squared go Devin Hester on teams that dare punt in his direction. Starting next week, expect punters to kick away from him, out of bounds.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The thing everyone misses and thoroughly I might add is that Kolb was handed the keys and Skelton for right or wrong has the scraps.

Once you factor that in, IMO it's not even close, Skelton did what he did with far fewer reps with the team, less experience and the knowledge this is only temporary.

He now has as many wins as Kolb.

The upside between the two is all with Skelton.

He has a stronger arm, he's taller and he's not scared.

He's a lot more raw but that you can fix.

We should play him the rest of the year and probably still draft a QB anyhow.

I know when I watch him I have hope, when I watch Kolb I have despair, that's about all I know.

Really? Keep in mind that today we were at home, against a horrible defense.

I'm not saying Kolb is the answer. His stock is definitely falling.

But if you told me right now that Skelton was our QBOF, I would not be very stoked at all.

There's a reason that we went after Kolb in the first place. Skelton was given a pretty long audition last year, and he generally failed to impress.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If that were true then why didnt they execute the trade on the day free agency started? And even if they did discuss the framework of a trade WHO CARES!!! By the time free agency started there was no market for him! Its like agreeing to a stock purchase, and not having it executed for a week, then paying a week old market price.

So either they overpaid because no one else wanted him or they overpaid because they have no idea how negotiate? Either way its an embarrassment.

so you think they can agree in principle and then back out. Pro sports franchises don't operate that way unless there is an injury. The stock purchase is a horrible analogy.

The good thing is after 11 years, and the likes of NEM and Tango, I finally found someone to put on ignore.

 

[Phrazbit]

But Pbit, so were Leinart, Anderson, Hall, and Bartel. If you have a parade of Captain Checkdowns over a 24 game stretch at the QB position doesn't that tell you that you have the worst offensive scheme and/or the worst WR group, or pass protection schemes, or a combination of all 3, in NFL history?

I agree that getting Kolb was like paying a Ferrari price for a Ford but when every single QB since Warner has been a failure it can't just be him. Can it?

I think it can when you have no idea how to evaluated QBs.

Anderson's career is statistically the worst starting QB of the last 20 years, and he held that status BEFORE becoming a Cardinal.

I dont think a case needs to be made for Hall not having the skillset to be an NFL QB. He is a tough guy, but thats his only quality, bad arm, undersized and has no ability to hold onto the ball.

Bartel was a UFL QB before coming here... enough said.

Matt Lienart was probably the best of the group but I think personality and work ethic issues cost him his job.

Skelton is a 6th round pick out of Fordham, he was always supposed to be a project.

 

[Phrazbit]

so you think they can agree in principle and then back out. Pro sports franchises don't operate that way unless there is an injury. The stock purchase is a horrible analogy.

The good thing is after 11 years, and the likes of NEM and Tango, I finally found someone to put on ignore.

Absolutely they can! And pro-sports teams have done it before. Just a few years ago the Phoenix Suns and Golden State Warriors had a draft day trade agreed to that would have shipped off Amare for the 8th pick and other parts, the Warriors backed out AFTER making the pick.

And I still dont buy for a second that the Kolb trade was agreed to during the draft. If that were the case then why did it take a week of negotiations for the trade to actually take place once the lockout ended? And even on the SLIM chance it was agreed to, who cares, you dont screw your own draft position just because you agreed to a trade several months earlier before seeing what the actual market for the player.

 

[Phrazbit]

You make alot of assumptions with your theory. You assume that only a few teams were in the market for a qb and that those were listed to everyone. You have no idea who was in the running for him. Not alot of people do and those that do weren't really talking. I know its crazy to think that some things don't go as rumored I mean we all knew for an absolute fact that Nnamdi was going to the Eagles at the start of FA.

I honestly believe that if we lost the game today, you would have found someway to blame it on Kolb. Your obsession with the guy is downright frightening

Im not making any assumptions, just look at the rosters around the league. Who was still in the market for a QB within 48 hours of free agency starting? The Cardinals... and the Cardinals alone.

 

[Duckjake]

I think it can when you have no idea how to evaluated QBs.

Anderson's career is statistically the worst starting QB of the last 20 years, and he held that status BEFORE becoming a Cardinal.

I dont think a case needs to be made for Hall not having the skillset to be an NFL QB. He is a tough guy, but thats his only quality, bad arm, undersized and has no ability to hold onto the ball.

Bartel was a UFL QB before coming here... enough said.

Matt Lienart was probably the best of the group but I think personality and work ethic issues cost him his job.

Skelton is a 6th round pick out of Fordham, he was always supposed to be a project.

One problem with using the background of all these QBs to show why they failed. They all look the same playing CKW's offense. From Leinart who was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB in the 2006 draft to Kolb who was supposed to be the best free agent QB available not one has been able to move the offense consistently.

To me that smells of an offensive system that simply does not work.

 

[Evil Ash]

Im not making any assumptions, just look at the rosters around the league. Who was still in the market for a QB within 48 hours of free agency starting? The Cardinals... and the Cardinals alone.

SF for one. Aside from the 6 teams that have elite QBs, an argument can be made for everyone else

 

[TJ]

Im not making any assumptions, just look at the rosters around the league. Who was still in the market for a QB within 48 hours of free agency starting? The Cardinals... and the Cardinals alone.

Because of the lockout, many teams drafted QBs in the 1st and 2nd round who needed them, such as Carolina, Tennessee, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Cincinnati and San Fran. Some QBs at the time, like Ponder and Locker IMO, had no business going in the first round but were forced up due to the CBA uncertainty.

If the NFL had a true free agency period, the QB transactions, such as the Kolb deal, would have been done in early March as opposed to late July, making the QB market much more interesting.

 

[Mainstreet]

The thing everyone misses and thoroughly I might add is that Kolb was handed the keys and Skelton for right or wrong has the scraps.

Once you factor that in, IMO it's not even close, Skelton did what he did with far fewer reps with the team, less experience and the knowledge this is only temporary.

He now has as many wins as Kolb.

The upside between the two is all with Skelton.

He has a stronger arm, he's taller and he's not scared.

He's a lot more raw but that you can fix.

We should play him the rest of the year and probably still draft a QB anyhow.

I know when I watch him I have hope, when I watch Kolb I have despair, that's about all I know.

This is my take as well.

I know on at least one of the safeties Skelton gave up there were open receivers running well down field and he was looking for them. I like his boldness in the face of adversity. He will learn. I'm comfortable with how Skelton played especially because he had no consistent running game to support him. I guess I'm comfortable not drafting a QB because I believe most of the offensive problems are related to the offensive line and an injured RB corp. The Cardinals definitely need to draft another RB for insurance among other needs. Somehow I'd like to find some way to give Petersen some playing time at WR which would really stretch the field deep.

 

[Phrazbit]

SF for one. Aside from the 6 teams that have elite QBs, an argument can be made for everyone else

The Niners resigned Alex Smith very quickly after free agency started. There is no way you can possibly think teams that had just used a high pick on a QB were going to consider trading for one.

I mean seriously, the ONLY team that actually did not have the QB position settled was Miami, if you want to claim that despite every report we heard that MAYBE they were in the running, okay. That is the ONE team that by some huge stretch of the imagination is a possible 2nd bidder, but by all accounts they had no interest. After that no one else was looking to add a QB to their roster.

 

[Phrazbit]

Because of the lockout, many teams drafted QBs in the 1st and 2nd round who needed them, such as Carolina, Tennessee, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Cincinnati and San Fran. Some QBs at the time, like Ponder and Locker IMO, had no business going in the first round but were forced up due to the CBA uncertainty.

If the NFL had a true free agency period, the QB transactions, such as the Kolb deal, would have been done in early March as opposed to late July, making the QB market much more interesting.

This is exactly my point. The teams with QB needs addressed them either in the draft or in the opening hours of free agency. When Arizona and Philly were negotiating for Kolb the Cardinals had become the only possible suitor.

 

[Evil Ash]

The Niners resigned Alex Smith very quickly after free agency started. There is no way you can possibly think teams that had just used a high pick on a QB were going to consider trading for one.

I mean seriously, the ONLY team that actually did not have the QB position settled was Miami, if you want to claim that despite every report we heard that MAYBE they were in the running, okay. That is the ONE team that by some huge stretch of the imagination is a possible 2nd bidder, but by all accounts they had no interest. After that no one else was looking to add a QB to their roster.

They re-signed Alex Smith and were likely looking for competition for him. Alex Smith isn't close to elite.

Like I said you're making assumptions and you're not helping your case at all