Give me ANYTHING, that convinces me that Kolb has more upside than Skelton

[Evil Ash]

This is exactly my point. The teams with QB needs addressed them either in the draft or in the opening hours of free agency. When Arizona and Philly were negotiating for Kolb the Cardinals had become the only possible suitor.

You keep making this statement as FACT when you have nothing but your assumptions to back it up. I'm sorry Kolb did whatever he did to piss you off but you really need to stop obsessing about the guy.

You don't like Kolb. The point has been made. MOVE ON!!!

 

[Phrazbit]

They re-signed Alex Smith and were likely looking for competition for him. Alex Smith isn't close to elite.

Like I said you're making assumptions and you're not helping your case at all

I'm making assumptions? You think the Niners went and resigned Alex Smith and then were also looking to break the bank on a TRADE for a QB in order for some "competition", but I am the one making assumptions?

I am assuming that the teams who have clearly signed, drafted and established starters were not looking to go and trade huge value for yet another QB. That is the only assumption I am making.

 

[Evil Ash]

I'm making assumptions? You think the Niners went and resigned Alex Smith and then were also looking to break the bank on a TRADE for a QB in order for some "competition", but I am the one making assumptions?

I am assuming that the teams who have clearly signed, drafted and established starters were not looking to go and trade huge value for yet another QB. That is the only assumption I am making.

They were in the running for Hasselbeck (sp?) even after signing Alex Smith. In fact he said that it was down to them and the Titans. Does that sound like a team that was completely sold on their QB position to you?

There are alot of things we don't know regarding the situation and everything you seem to point to as evidence is just speculation.

 

[Phrazbit]

They were in the running for Hasselbeck (sp?) even after signing Alex Smith. In fact he said that it was down to them and the Titans. Does that sound like a team that was completely sold on their QB position to you?

There are alot of things we don't know regarding the situation and everything you seem to point to as evidence is just speculation.

For one, after signing Smith most reports said they were out of the running for Hasselback, but even IF they still wanted to get another QB, trading huge value for Kolb vs signing a vet for a few million are COMPLETELY different scenarios and it is almost impossible to "assume" the 49ers would have had even a remote interest in a blockbuster trade at that point.

 

[TJ]

This is exactly my point. The teams with QB needs addressed them either in the draft or in the opening hours of free agency. When Arizona and Philly were negotiating for Kolb the Cardinals had become the only possible suitor.

But most of those teams addressed them in the draft and filled depth with aged veterans such as Hasselbeck and McNabb. And some just settled for garbage like Tavaris Jackson.

Before the lockout, there were a good number of suitors rumored to be interested in Kolb. IIRC, Minny, SF, Seattle, and Tennessee at least inquired about the asking price (you'll have to ask Jurecki, Somers or Urban for a better idea). Even in the end, Seattle was still involved according to Pat Kirwan on Sirius NFL Radio. After the draft, obviously the need for a 27-year old QBoF like Kolb was mitigated.

My point of contention was not about acquiring Kolb because I like his potential, but the price the organization paid to acquire him and the timing of the extension. Not only did it take too long to finalize after the CBA was finished, but we gave up way too much and should have held off on an extension until midway through the season. IMO, an organization like New England would of had that deal done in 48 hours and only given up one or two mid round picks as opposed to a pro bowl CB.

 

[Phrazbit]

One problem with using the background of all these QBs to show why they failed. They all look the same playing CKW's offense. From Leinart who was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB in the 2006 draft to Kolb who was supposed to be the best free agent QB available not one has been able to move the offense consistently.

To me that smells of an offensive system that simply does not work.

All the results are bad but they are all their own unique types of terrible.

 

[Evil Ash]

For one, after signing Smith most reports said they were out of the running for Hasselback, but even IF they still wanted to get another QB, trading huge value for Kolb vs signing a vet for a few million are COMPLETELY different scenarios and it is almost impossible to "assume" the 49ers would have had even a remote interest in a blockbuster trade at that point.

Its almost as impossible as Nnamdi going to the Eagles. That could never happen

Again you're going in with the idea that you are "in the know" when you have no first hand knowledge of what was going on. Again assumptions - nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Duckjake]

For one, after signing Smith most reports said they were out of the running for Hasselback, but even IF they still wanted to get another QB, trading huge value for Kolb vs signing a vet for a few million are COMPLETELY different scenarios and it is almost impossible to "assume" the 49ers would have had even a remote interest in a blockbuster trade at that point.

Just curious, has any career backup QB other than Matt Schaub been successful as a starter on his next team?

 

[Phrazbit]

Its almost as impossible as Nnamdi going to the Eagles. That could never happen

Again you're going in with the idea that you are "in the know" when you have no first hand knowledge of what was going on. Again assumptions - nothing more, nothing less.

Signing a corner back when tons of teams needed corners is a completely different situation than pulling a blockbuster QB trade when every team except Arizona had already addressed their QB situation.

Seriously, how in the world am I the one making "assumptions". I am looking at the reality of the NFL rosters at the time of the trade. The only "assumptions" to be made are pretending that some other team might have been secretly negotiation despite already having addressed their need.

 

[Evil Ash]

Signing a corner back when tons of teams needed corners is a completely different situation than pulling a blockbuster QB trade when every team except Arizona had already addressed their QB situation.

Seriously, how in the world am I the one making "assumptions". I am looking at the reality of the NFL rosters at the time of the trade. The only "assumptions" to be made are pretending that some other team might have been secretly negotiation despite already having addressed their need.

Again you must provide PROOF that we were bidding against ourselves or you are just assuming it.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just curious, has any career backup QB other than Matt Schaub been successful as a starter on his next team?

There have been some, Steve Young for instance. But even Young sat and marinated for 3 years behind a guy most consider the greatest of all time and Young had a huge pedigree before the trade.

In Kolb's case, it is very hard to imagine that Ried actually thought he had franchise potential if he traded him despite having an injury machine on the wrong side of 30 as his starter.

 

[Phrazbit]

Again you must provide PROOF that we were bidding against ourselves or you are just assuming it.

lol, what more proof do I need? THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE IN NEED OF A QB! My proof is the rosters of every team in the league!!!

What "proof" is there that ANYONE else was interested by the time the Cards were "negotiating" the trade?

 

[Duckjake]

All the results are bad but they are all their own unique types of terrible.

Well I must be getting old because they all look the same to me on the field. The only difference is that Skelator can at least run for big gains.

 

[Evil Ash]

There have been some, Steve Young for instance. But even Young sat and marinated for 3 years behind a guy most consider the greatest of all time and Young had a huge pedigree before the trade.

In Kolb's case, it is very hard to imagine that Ried actually thought he had franchise potential if he traded him despite having an injury machine on the wrong side of 30 as his starter.

Not really when you take into account that contracts played a big role in the situation. What do you think Philly fans would have done if he tagged and traded Vick instead?

 

[Evil Ash]

lol, what more proof do I need? THERE WAS NO ONE ELSE IN NEED OF A QB! My proof is the rosters of every team in the league!!!

What "proof" is there that ANYONE else was interested by the time the Cards were "negotiating" the trade?

Proof is proof. "I think every team was happy with their current QB situation" is not proof.

Its like talking to a child

 

[Phrazbit]

Well I must be getting old because they all look the same to me on the field. The only difference is that Skelator can at least run for big gains.

Anderson went out there and whiffed on open players all over the place, he fire his bazooka throws no matter how far or near or how much touch was required. It appears he could make reads but was absolutely hopeless at actually delivering the ball on target, as had been his M.O. his entire career.

Hall had a noodle arm, couldnt hold onto the ball, had no pocket presence... but was "tough".

In regular season play Bartel hasnt had enough PT to really say a lot about him, other than he just looks like a stereotypical bad QB.

Lienart was capt check down, held onto the ball too long, had a weak arm and had a tendency to throw passes that might put his receivers in a cast. Like the preseason throw last year that messed up Fitz's knee.

Skelton has trouble with reads and is inaccurate but has a cannon arm and promising pocket presence.

Kolb has no poise in the pocket, a weak arm, struggles with reads. Is accurate on short throws.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Not really when you take into account that contracts played a big role in the situation. What do you think Philly fans would have done if he tagged and traded Vick instead?

Philly fans would've been outraged had it been Vick. On the other hand, most Philly fans thought Kolb was garbage, and were more than happy when the Eagles got a kings ransom for him. Cards FO is clueless, and Philly knew that when they got way more than any other team would've come close to giving up.

 

[Phrazbit]

Proof is proof. "I think every team was happy with their current QB situation" is not proof.

Its like talking to a child

I never said "I think every team in the league is happy with their current QB situation". But being "happy" and considering a blockbuster trade is different stories.

You act as though teams who had just used high picks or just signed QBs were ALSO going to go out and trade for one. Its a completely unrealistic ASSUMPTION to think those teams were also considering a trade.

My proof is that clearly teams had "for better or worse" (my actual phrasing) delt with the QB situation.

You're using a total LACK of proof for your arguments as "proof" somehow.

Its clear you've dug your feet in the mud on this issue and we wont agree, but there is absolutely ZERO evidence that any team besides Arizona had an interest in Kolb during free agency.

 

[Duckjake]

Anderson went out there and whiffed on open players all over the place, he fire his bazooka throws no matter how far or near or how much touch was required. It appears he could make reads but was absolutely hopeless at actually delivering the ball on target, as had been his M.O. his entire career.

Hall had a noodle arm, couldnt hold onto the ball, had no pocket presence... but was "tough".

In regular season play Bartel hasnt had enough PT to really say a lot about him, other than he just looks like a stereotypical bad QB.

Lienart was capt check down, held onto the ball too long, had a weak arm and had a tendency to throw passes that might put his receivers in a cast. Like the preseason throw last year that messed up Fitz's knee.

Skelton has trouble with reads and is inaccurate but has a cannon arm and promising pocket presence.

Kolb has no poise in the pocket, a weak arm, struggles with reads. Is accurate on short throws.

Like I said they all look alike to me because every one of the QBs display traits that you list for each of them individually. Kolb whiffs on open players all the time. People are already complaining about both Kolb and Skelator being dink, dink, dink, punt Qbs. But then we do have to take Hall out of the discussion because he had no business playing QB in an NFL game.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Its clear you've dug your feet in the mud on this issue and we wont agree, but there is absolutely ZERO evidence that any team besides Arizona had an interest in Kolb during free agency.

Both Schefter and Lombardi confirmed that AZ was the only team left in the running for Kolb, after Seattle got Jackson, and Miami was only interested in Olson, AZ was the last team in it for Kolb, which is why both were so surprised that we gave up so much for Kolb. AZ bid against themselves, I thought everyone knew this...

 

[Phrazbit]

Both Schefter and Lombardi confirmed that AZ was the only team left in the running for Kolb, after Seattle got Jackson, and Miami was only interested in Olson, AZ was the last team in it for Kolb, which is why both were so surprised that we gave up so much for Kolb. AZ bid against themselves, I thought everyone knew this...

Thank you...

 

[Evil Ash]

Philly fans would've been outraged had it been Vick. On the other hand, most Philly fans thought Kolb was garbage, and were more than happy when the Eagles got a kings ransom for him. Cards FO is clueless, and Philly knew that when they got way more than any other team would've come close to giving up.

Again, proof? The QB market is thin as it is. So somebody who had shown anything (like say five 300 yard games) becomes in demand and with supply low, they could ask for more.

Simple supply-demand dynamic. Ever take economics?

I still don't know what to make of Kolb when we have so many damned problems on this team its hard to evaluate one position like that. Our offense has taken steps backwards and it isn't all on the Qb play no matter how much certain people want to make it.

 

[Phrazbit]

Again, proof? The QB market is thin as it is. So somebody who had shown anything (like say five 300 yard games) becomes in demand and with supply low, they could ask for more.

Simple supply-demand dynamic. Ever take economics?

I still don't know what to make of Kolb when we have so many damned problems on this team its hard to evaluate one position like that. Our offense has taken steps backwards and it isn't all on the Qb play no matter how much certain people want to make it.

Are you kidding me? What would quantify as proof to you? A team using a 1st round pick on a QB, a team signing a QB is somehow NOT evidence that they would not want to trade for Kolb? Its like you expect their GM to come out and say "We hate Kevin Kolb" for you to not think they secretly wanted the guy.

And supply and demand... there was no demand outside of Arizona for Kolb. So yeah, the Cards were negotiating against themselves.

 

[Phrazbit]

Like I said they all look alike to me because every one of the QBs display traits that you list for each of them individually. Kolb whiffs on open players all the time. People are already complaining about both Kolb and Skelator being dink, dink, dink, punt Qbs. But then we do have to take Hall out of the discussion because he had no business playing QB in an NFL game.

I guess. To me Anderson was in his own unique world of terrible. He might be the worst quarterback I have ever seen and his career stats back it up.

You should look up his college numbers. Its baffling that Derek Anderson even ended up in the NFL, much less how he started for several seasons.

 

[Evil Ash]

Both Schefter and Lombardi confirmed that AZ was the only team left in the running for Kolb, after Seattle got Jackson, and Miami was only interested in Olson, AZ was the last team in it for Kolb, which is why both were so surprised that we gave up so much for Kolb. AZ bid against themselves, I thought everyone knew this...

You mean Orton for Miami and they were wrong on that. Hell people on here were wrong on what they were asking for compensation for him (Denver wanted a first and more for him, people here thought they were just asking for a 2nd or maybe a third).

There were reports that there were other teams interested. There were reports that we were basically bidding against ourselves. Who to believe?