Going to Lindley doesn't look so stupid right now

[Russ Smith]

What makes you so sure that Lindley will get better when Skelton, Kolb, Max Hall, etc., etc. failed to get better once Ken Whisenhunt turned his eye on them? Every QB excepting Kurt Warner has gotten worse the more time they've been privileged to spend with Coach.

If neither guy has a future as an NFL starting QB--and neither does--then why not go with the guy who's shown that he can win games?

It's sad to me that you understand that your argument is so bereft of value that you point to the Buffalo game where Skelton had all of 10 attempts but still positioned us to win the game in overtime as your example.

how many games has Skelton won this year? Zero. Is he more ready to play yes, are we going to win games with him who knows.

This franchise has to know what they have because whether it's whiz or a new coach next year we're probably replacing 2 of our QB's, at least one. You have to find out is it worth developing Lindley or not. We already know the answer on Skelton, he's never going to be a good NFL QB he's just not accurate enough.

 

[Mulli]

What makes you so sure that Lindley will get better when Skelton, Kolb, Max Hall, etc., etc. failed to get better once Ken Whisenhunt turned his eye on them? Every QB excepting Kurt Warner has gotten worse the more time they've been privileged to spend with Coach.

If neither guy has a future as an NFL starting QB--and neither does--then why not go with the guy who's shown that he can win games?

It's sad to me that you understand that your argument is so bereft of value that you point to the Buffalo game where Skelton had all of 10 attempts but still positioned us to win the game in overtime as your example.

If every QB since Warner once Whiz turns his eye on them, why would you let Whiz coach the new QB(s) the team brings in for next year?

 

[kerouac9]

If every QB since Warner once Whiz turns his eye on them, why would you let Whiz coach the new QB(s) the team brings in for next year?

I don't. Whis's toadies are gone after this year in my world. Grimm and Miller are out, and strong, experienced replacements are brought in. Whis no longer has the reins of the offense and instead is focused on team management while his staff takes care of the players on the roster.

In my scenario, Kolb is probably starting 2013 and Whis can continue working with him in 2013, and his experienced OC/replacement is working with the developmental prospect.

 

[Mulli]

I don't. Whis's toadies are gone after this year in my world. Grimm and Miller are out, and strong, experienced replacements are brought in. Whis no longer has the reins of the offense and instead is focused on team management while his staff takes care of the players on the roster.

In my scenario, Kolb is probably starting 2013 and Whis can continue working with him in 2013, and his experienced OC/replacement is working with the developmental prospect.

no value whatsoever to keeping Whiz in that scenario. What OC worth anything takes that job?

Flush the wizz

 

[moklerman]

Many rumors have Andy Reid going to San Diego after all the dominoes fall. What if he came to Arizona and reunited with Kolb?

Or what if someone from GB comes and the Cards can get then get Flynn?

Is Graves creative enough to do something along these lines?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

There's zero chance Kolb is back with his same contract in 2013.

 

[Mulli]

Many rumors have Andy Reid going to San Diego after all the dominoes fall. What if he came to Arizona and reunited with Kolb?

Or what if someone from GB comes and the Cards can get then get Flynn?

Is Graves creative enough to do something along these lines?

5-11

 

[desertdawg]

There's zero chance Kolb is back with his same contract in 2013.

There's zero chance that that's a fact.

 

[kerouac9]

There's zero chance Kolb is back with his same contract in 2013.

I want to believe that's true, but I don't anticipate that. What leverage do the Cards have except that Arizona's maybe his best opportunity for a starting job to begin 2013?

 

[82CardsGrad]

I want to believe that's true, but I don't anticipate that. What leverage do the Cards have except that Arizona's maybe his best opportunity for a starting job to begin 2013?

Isn't that enough? Kolb would most likely be our starter in 2013 if he reconfigures his deal... or, he can try the open market and ride the pine somehwere else. Seems to me the Cards have enough leverage there to warrant a new deal.

 

[D-Dogg]

LOL. Of course, in his sixth and seventh starts, Skelton had 4 TDs against 2 INTs and 80+ QB ratings. And in the next two games where he had the majority of play time, he completed greater than 60% of his passes with 4 TDs and 3 INTs. But why look at the context when you can just cherry pick his worst games and point them out as his average play.

I'm not saying that's his average play. I'm saying that he blew chunks in some of his games, looking worse than Lindley did in this one. But we only have ONE game from Lindley to look at, so it's getting far too much scrutiny. He can just as likely have good games in the future. Everyone is cherry picking Skelton games that he did decent in (not good, or even damn decent, but passable) as some validation that Lindley over Skelton is some crazy talk.

That's the context that isn't being looked at. A second year guy with starts under his belt threw up MUCH worse clunkers than a rookie in his first start, and some people think the rookie is basically the one game and that's it.

FFS, it is his first start, and he's a sixth round rookie. He looked fine running the offense, amassed 300 yards and threw 4 picks. The latter is bad, but not anything wild given he's a rookie. I had more confidence we'd be able to move the ball with him than Skelton, far more. Skelton is just gawd awful. Lindley in his one start was mildly awful. I'm hoping for alright in the next game. Doubt he'll ever reach damn decent status, but Skelton doesn't have a shot to get there at all.

 

[D-Dogg]

It's sad to me that you understand that your argument is so bereft of value that you point to the Buffalo game where Skelton had all of 10 attempts but still positioned us to win the game in overtime as your example.

He put us in position to win? Really?

2nd and 11 at ARI 40 J.Skelton pass incomplete short middle to L.Stephens-Howling.
3rd and 11 at ARI 40 (Shotgun) J.Skelton pass incomplete short right to E.Doucet [K.Moore].
4th and 11 at ARI 40 (Shotgun) J.Skelton pass short middle to L.Fitzgerald to BUF 43 for 17 yards (B.Scott). Good pass
1st and 10 at BUF 43 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Skelton pass incomplete short left to L.Fitzgerald.
2nd and 10 at BUF 43 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Skelton pass incomplete short left to E.Doucet (L.McKelvin).
3rd and 10 at BUF 43 (Shotgun) J.Skelton pass incomplete short left to M.Floyd [K.Moore].

4th and 10 at BUF 43 J.Feely 61 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-D.Zastudil. 16 16
1st and 10 at ARI 47 (Shotgun) J.Skelton pass incomplete short left to M.Floyd. PENALTY on BUF-S.Gilmore, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at ARZ 47 - No Play. Note, incompletion didn't count
1st and 10 at BUF 48 J.Skelton pass short right to L.Fitzgerald to BUF 20 for 28 yards (J.Byrd). Larry did the work on this one with RAC, but whoo, Skelton "set up" feely to win it and he choked.
1st and 10 at BUF 20 (No Huddle) J.Skelton spiked the ball to stop the clock.
2nd and 10 at BUF 20 J.Feely 38 yard field goal is No Good, Hit Left Upright, Center-M.Leach, Holder-D.Zastudil.
End of Period

OT
1st and 10 at ARI 20 L.Stephens-Howling left tackle to ARZ 20 for no gain (C.Kelsay).
2nd and 10 at ARI 20 J.Skelton pass incomplete short right to L.Stephens-Howling.
3rd and 10 at ARI 20 (Shotgun) J.Skeltonpass short middle intended for R.Housler INTERCEPTED by J.Byrd at ARZ 35. J.Byrd to ARZ 6 for 29 yards (M.Floyd).

Incomplete to short routes all over the place, one decent one caught by Larry, another short one caught by Larry that he took 28 yards, and one caught by the Bills returned down to the AZ 6 and gave them the 25 yard gamewinner.

Just as good of an argument can be made that John put the Bills in position to win that game.

Yes, this is the guy who was benched to let a rookie play. Why? Because at least when someone is playing like a clueless rookie, it will be the actual rookie and not the third year guy (that we traded up to get, btw).

 

[Mulli]

Please stop arguing over Skelton v. Lindley. Please begin arguing DA or Max Hall.


Thanks.

 

[conraddobler]

I'm not saying that's his average play. I'm saying that he blew chunks in some of his games, looking worse than Lindley did in this one. But we only have ONE game from Lindley to look at, so it's getting far too much scrutiny. He can just as likely have good games in the future. Everyone is cherry picking Skelton games that he did decent in (not good, or even damn decent, but passable) as some validation that Lindley over Skelton is some crazy talk.

That's the context that isn't being looked at. A second year guy with starts under his belt threw up MUCH worse clunkers than a rookie in his first start, and some people think the rookie is basically the one game and that's it.

FFS, it is his first start, and he's a sixth round rookie. He looked fine running the offense, amassed 300 yards and threw 4 picks. The latter is bad, but not anything wild given he's a rookie. I had more confidence we'd be able to move the ball with him than Skelton, far more. Skelton is just gawd awful. Lindley in his one start was mildly awful. I'm hoping for alright in the next game. Doubt he'll ever reach damn decent status, but Skelton doesn't have a shot to get there at all.

Here's the deal.

Since Warner our expectations have dropped, that's wrong, they should be going the other direction.

Whiz has no patience with anyone, it's one of his faults, the idea here is to follow this formula.

1. Sign players you know can play.

2. Play them when ready.

3. Have faith you were right.

4. Give them enough games to prove you right.

5. Be right.

Whiz amazingly whiffs on all these, but #5 hurts the most.

Let the new guy have a shot at fixing this problem, I have no faith in Whiz doing it anymore, none, zero.

We can play the new guy from here on out, let him demonstrate to the new coaches what he has for some tape to look at, then they can decide if they want to saddle up that horse or another one, my guess is they'll pick another one if they have a brain in their head.

IMO our QB might be on the roster but IMO it's also as likely if not more that he's not now currently on our roster.

 

[D-Dogg]

Please stop arguing over Skelton v. Lindley. Please begin arguing DA or Max Hall.


Thanks.

Serious question.

Did you snap the arm on your Gronk doll, or are you not into realism-type stuff?


You have max hall ears, and your effort smells of derek anderson!

 

[Mulli]

Serious question.

Did you snap the arm on your Gronk doll, or are you not into realism-type stuff?


You have max hall ears, and your effort smells of derek anderson!

I would never do that. I take this seriously.

You must be registered for see images attach

k9's favorite QB.

 

[D-Dogg]

I would never do that. I take this seriously.

You must be registered for see images attach

k9's favorite QB.

That was the most funny play of the week.

I hate the pats, but man that was great.

 

[Mulli]

That was the most funny play of the week.

I hate the pats, but man that was great.

It was great. My sister in law blurted out "bum rush!" immediately. Epic.

 

[kerouac9]

Isn't that enough? Kolb would most likely be our starter in 2013 if he reconfigures his deal... or, he can try the open market and ride the pine somehwere else. Seems to me the Cards have enough leverage there to warrant a new deal.

I expect that Kolb would be the starter in 2013 even if he doesn't re-configure his deal. If Whis is still here, and Kolb is healthy, then Kolb will give Whis the best chance to keep his job. Kolb isn't going to get a starting job here or anywhere else with a different staff.

Would Kolb start in Kansas City or Jacksonville right now? Probably. Would he start if those guys draft Barkley and Smith? Maybe Week 1.

The Cards have the leverage of promising Kolb a starting job, but that's only a legitimate promise if Whis stays. If Whis leaves, then we start over at QB.

It's difficult for me to imagine a scenario where Whisenhunt is the head coach in 2013 and Kevin Kolb is not the Week 1 starting quarterback. Every start that Kolb misses increases his value to the franchise as the only player capable of impersonating a starting NFL quarterback for a period of time.

 

[Mulli]

Kolb starts over Henne right now? No.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

There's zero chance that that's a fact.

This is still the Bidwills, they're not going to pay a guy a bunch of money after he has missed large chunks of the previous three seasons. They'll tell him he can re-structure and have a shot at starting here or he can try his luck on the open market where he'll never get a chance to start if he even got a job at all.

The Cardinals have all the leverage.

 

[desertdawg]

This is still the Bidwills, they're not going to pay a guy a bunch of money after he has missed large chunks of the previous three seasons. They'll tell him he can re-structure and have a shot at starting here or he can try his luck on the open market where he'll never get a chance to start if he even got a job at all.

The Cardinals have all the leverage.

Alrighty, lets check your new fact list...

It comes down to options at the end of the year. We don't know what they will tell him. They've already paid him plenty, and now the fanbase realizes he is the best we got. The Cardinals have zero leverage after the way there other QBs have played.

Fact count remains the same amigo!!!

 

[Mulli]

Alrighty, lets check your new fact list...

It comes down to options at the end of the year. We don't know what they will tell him. They've already paid him plenty, and now the fanbase realizes he is the best we got. The Cardinals have zero leverage after the way there other QBs have played.

Fact count remains the same amigo!!!

If Kolb cannot get on the field, he is not the best. Fact.

 

[desertdawg]

If Kolb cannot get on the field, he is not the best. Fact.

I think you mean stay on the field, because not many QBs can with this offense. Even the high and mighty Kurt (bless his heart) Warner missed big chunks because of this "prolific dynamic" offense. Kolb was tough this year and got taken out on a muffed play, I aint knocking him for this year's injury. Let's talk signing bonuses, if we bring in another hot shot, we'd be paying even more for another guy to come in and get smashed.

 

[Mulli]

I think you mean stay on the field, because not many QBs can with this offense. Even the high and mighty Kurt (bless his heart) Warner missed big chunks because of this "prolific dynamic" offense. Kolb was tough this year and got taken out on a muffed play, I aint knocking him for this year's injury. Let's talk signing bonuses, if we bring in another hot shot, we'd be paying even more for another guy to come in and get smashed.

He hasn't been on the field in a couple months, so he isn't the best.