Having a Real Hard Time Talking Myself into the 2011 Cardinals

[kerouac9]

Many of you will take that as a good sign. But I managed to talk myself into the 2003 Arizona Cardinals going 9-7 and going from starting a "I Hate You Calvin Pace" thread to saying that he should get between 8 and 10 sacks his rookie year.

I think I talked myself into believing that the 2010 Arizona Cardinals lead by Derek Anderson should be an 8-8 team.

I just don't see what a lot of you are seeing. We don't have anyone at the peak of their careers right now besides Larry Fitzgerald, and a great WR can't lead his team to the playoffs. Our defense can't stop anyone on the ground, and our offense doesn't appear to have enough playmakers to put pressure on opposing teams to abandon the run (which was what the 2008 and 2009 Cards were able to do, along with the 2009 Green Bay Packers).

I think that the offense is going to be pretty average, with some improvement from the passing game as the season goes along. The offensive line just isn't very good, and they have no chemistry or continuity: there are 0 returning starters paired along the OL right now.

But the defense is going to be awful. Ask Cincinnatti Bengals fans how nice it is to have one of the Top 10 corners in the NFL with little pass rush support in front of him. We might have the least-talented defense in the NFC, despite sinking a number of draft picks into that unit since Whis came aboard, and Denny Green before him. Most of those guys are gone now.

We were 5-11 last year playing the stinktacular AFC West and the improving NFC South. This year we play the improving NFC East and the dominant AFC North (the Browns are going to surprise some people this year).

For Arizona Cardinals fans, hope springs eternal every Spring and September. The lockout robbed us of the eventful Spring, and I just can't get it together for September.

CAR @ ARI - W
ARI @ WAS - L
ARI @ SEA - L
NYG @ ARI - W
ARI @ MIN - L
PIT @ ARI - L
ARI @ BAL - L
STL @ ARI - W
ARI @ PHI - L
ARI @ SF - W
ARI @ STL - L
DAL @ ARI - L
SF @ ARI - W
CLE @ ARI - W
ARI @ CIN - W
SEA @ ARI - W

8-8, but I think that many of our losses will be much closer, and we should win some games big. I don't know. 5-3 at home should at least keep the seats filled.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Many of you will take that as a good sign. But I managed to talk myself into the 2003 Arizona Cardinals going 9-7 and going from starting a "I Hate You Calvin Pace" thread to saying that he should get between 8 and 10 sacks his rookie year.

I think I talked myself into believing that the 2010 Arizona Cardinals lead by Derek Anderson should be an 8-8 team.

I just don't see what a lot of you are seeing. We don't have anyone at the peak of their careers right now besides Larry Fitzgerald, and a great WR can't lead his team to the playoffs. Our defense can't stop anyone on the ground, and our offense doesn't appear to have enough playmakers to put pressure on opposing teams to abandon the run (which was what the 2008 and 2009 Cards were able to do, along with the 2009 Green Bay Packers).

I think that the offense is going to be pretty average, with some improvement from the passing game as the season goes along. The offensive line just isn't very good, and they have no chemistry or continuity: there are 0 returning starters paired along the OL right now.

But the defense is going to be awful. Ask Cincinnatti Bengals fans how nice it is to have one of the Top 10 corners in the NFL with little pass rush support in front of him. We might have the least-talented defense in the NFC, despite sinking a number of draft picks into that unit since Whis came aboard, and Denny Green before him. Most of those guys are gone now.

We were 5-11 last year playing the stinktacular AFC West and the improving NFC South. This year we play the improving NFC East and the dominant AFC North (the Browns are going to surprise some people this year).

For Arizona Cardinals fans, hope springs eternal every Spring and September. The lockout robbed us of the eventful Spring, and I just can't get it together for September.

CAR @ ARI - W
ARI @ WAS - L
ARI @ SEA - L
NYG @ ARI - W
ARI @ MIN - L
PIT @ ARI - L
ARI @ BAL - L
STL @ ARI - W
ARI @ PHI - L
ARI @ SF - W
ARI @ STL - L
DAL @ ARI - L
SF @ ARI - W
CLE @ ARI - W
ARI @ CIN - W
SEA @ ARI - W

8-8, but I think that many of our losses will be much closer, and we should win some games big. I don't know. 5-3 at home should at least keep the seats filled.

That's amazing. You sound a bit depressed by this team and think they'll go 8 - 8 and I'm pretty optimistic about this team and it's future but I also expect to see us split our schedule. We won 5 games last season and it could have easily been worse. This year, against a much stronger schedule, we're predicting 8 wins and IMO that's a good sign this organization and team are headed in the right direction.

Steve

 

[DevonCardsFan]

It comes down to Horton being a miracle worker and for Beenie Wells to actually be a viable running back behind a horrid O-line, Stranger things have happened. What is a succesful year for this team winning the West again? Not having a losing record? Its not a Superbowl caliber team by anymeans.

 

[Cards_Campos]

lol...We can easily hang and beat Washington...and if we beat the Rams at home based on your other games we could go 10-6 fairly easily. Throw in Minnesota which was a toss up and a game we should have won last year and 11-5 is possible.

I guess my point is....we went 5-11 last year with 1 of the worst statistically speaking, QB play in the last 40 years(of any NFL team). Our completion % dropped further in 1 year than ever recorded...and yet...and yet....we lost 2 games that we had won without miracle finishes...I know we got lucky against Oakland....but remember we turned the ball over numerous times in scoring position ourselves.

Our off was ranked #1 in preseason and I know that and 50 cents will get you a stick of gum but it shows alot of promise. Kolb can be as good as Schaub in my opinion. And if he is...then we can easily win 9-10 games with our schedule..

 

[TJ]

For other teams, new defensive coordinators in the past have turned rags into riches in one season with essentially the same personnel. I can't remember the last DC of substance we had on this team. There is something about Horton that really inspires me to believe the defense will be improved simply by the change in atmosphere and the dedication he displays to his players. He's been in the gridiron before. He's won championships as a player and coach. He's been under the tutelage of one of the best DCs ever. He can empathize with his players. I believe he can teach these players how to be successful.

We have talent on defense. No question about it. But in the past, it has not been maximized. Clancy couldn't do it (still cant at Cal-Berkley). Billy couldn't do it here or in San Fran. Horton is an unknown commodity, but unlike his predecessors, he shows a genuine interest in the success of the defense. And to me, that is a good start for what I hope is a long tenure as a successful DC.

 

[kerouac9]

That's amazing. You sound a bit depressed by this team and think they'll go 8 - 8 and I'm pretty optimistic about this team and it's future but I also expect to see us split our schedule. We won 5 games last season and it could have easily been worse. This year, against a much stronger schedule, we're predicting 8 wins and IMO that's a good sign this organization and team are headed in the right direction.

Steve

One of the stats that sabermetricians like is games won or lost by a TD or less. The record in these games should be about .500, no matter whether you're talking about the Patriots or the Bengals.

In 2010, the Arizona Cardinals were 3-3 in games decided by a touchdown or less. Unfortunately, that equated to 60% of our total wins. The issue for this season is whether we're able to put bad teams away. If the Cards can't cover against the Panthers, that's a bad sign.

If the Cards can keep contests close against half the teams like the Steelers, Giants, Vikings (on the road), Ravens, Rams, Cowboys, and Browns, then maybe we win half of those games. That gets us to 3 wins. Then we have to jackstomp the Panthers, Redskins, Seahawks (at least once) and 49ers to establish ourselves as an up-and-coming team for 2012 (although a team that's going to have to be quite active in free agency because we're not going to have a second-round pick.

I think what I'm worried about is that we'll surprise one of the "good" teams and win 6 of 8 close games against bad teams and in division, and we'll be set up for disappointment again in 2012.

The team has to win some games big to convince me it's going anywhere. Even more than it has to limit the meltdowns against good teams.

 

[kerouac9]

For other teams, new defensive coordinators in the past have turned rags into riches in one season with essentially the same personnel. I can't remember the last DC of substance we had on this team. There is something about Horton that really inspires me to believe the defense will be improved simply by the change in atmosphere and the dedication he displays to his players. He's been in the gridiron before. He's won championships as a player and coach. He's been under the tutelage of one of the best DCs ever. He can empathize with his players. I believe he can teach these players how to be successful.

We have talent on defense. No question about it. But in the past, it has not been maximized. Clancy couldn't do it (still cant at Cal-Berkley). Billy couldn't do it here or in San Fran. Horton is an unknown commodity, but unlike his predecessors, he shows a genuine interest in the success of the defense. And to me, that is a good start for what I hope is a long tenure as a successful DC.

WHO?!

Our three best defensive players (Dockett, Campbell, and Wilson) are at non-impact positions, and our three worst defensive players (Lenon, Porter, and either Haggans or Jefferson--we'll find out Sunday) are at the biggest impact positions. Maybe Daryl Washington becomes the best player on our defense, but even WILB in a 3-4 defense isn't a top-five impact position.

I get that you have full faith in never-done-anything/lead-the-worst-unit-on-the-Steelers Horton, but he hasn't proven anything, and he probably doesn't have the players to run that system, anyway. Who are the successful Coordinators around the NFL who worked under Dick LeBeau?

 

[oaken1]

damn....just stop it...NFL football starts for real in a few hours...I am trying to get all pumped up over here, have the adrenaline carry me through till sundays game,..and here, now, on the brink of live action...someone is pissing in the cheerios again...damn.

I know if one goes through life with very few expectations, then one avoids crushing disappointment....but Cards fans rarely have an opportunity to reach for the stars,...and the eve of opening weekend is the one time throughout our history, that we have been equal to every team in the league......today, this weekend, we are a championship waiting to happen....we are an NFL films version of a miracle waiting to erupt onto the cosmos.....beating a dead horse will never make him smile for you....so chill, relax, anticipate...and like every other Cardinals fan on the planet...dream....because this weekend, our dreams mean just as much as everyone else's do.







or not...it's yer life

 

[kerouac9]

damn....just stop it...NFL football starts for real in a few hours...I am trying to get all pumped up over here, have the adrenaline carry me through till sundays game,..and here, now, on the brink of live action...someone is pissing in the cheerios again...damn.

I know if one goes through life with very few expectations, then one avoids crushing disappointment....but Cards fans rarely have an opportunity to reach for the stars,...and the eve of opening weekend is the one time throughout our history, that we have been equal to every team in the league......today, this weekend, we are a championship waiting to happen....we are an NFL films version of a miracle waiting to erupt onto the cosmos.....beating a dead horse will never make him smile for you....so chill, relax, anticipate...and like every other Cardinals fan on the planet...dream....because this weekend, our dreams mean just as much as everyone else's do.







or not...it's yer life

Why would you come onto this thread if it was going to ruin your day? It's not like the title held some mystery. I've purposely stayed off all the other Kool-Aid threads on the board because I didn't want to untrack people who were enjoying themselves.

Can't we just talk football?

 

[desertdawg]

Don't worry K9, once you get that new avatar up and running I think the koolaid will hit you all at once. I too think it will be an 8-8 or 9-7 season. But I think that's what we need to do before we take it another step foward in 2012. I really like the new Owner.

 

[Cheesebeef]

it's football season. any disappointments I've had in certain moves not being made in the off-season have all been slowly flotaing away in the last couples weeks and will be completely gone come Sunday morning.

It's week one... we're playing the worst team in the league with a rookie QB and new HC... and we're at home. I can get excited about that pretty easy!

 

[football karma]

this year is a "set the table" year for the Cardinals --

Kolb simply has to show he is a real, upper half of the NFL type QB with upside.

I think of (hope for) the Cards as being in a similar situation as Green Bay in 2008. Rodgers first year as starter, GB went 6-10. But then in 09 they won 11 games, in 10 the SB.

 

[oaken1]

Why would you come onto this thread if it was going to ruin your day? It's not like the title held some mystery. I've purposely stayed off all the other Kool-Aid threads on the board because I didn't want to untrack people who were enjoying themselves.

Can't we just talk football?

Sucker for punishment I guess,...I am a Cards fan afterall....... or maybe, because I respect you as a poster and I wanted to see what you had to say...both true.

The title of the thread, rather intended or not, at least indicates a willingness, or desire, to fall in love with this years team. But a difficulty in doing so.
I watch this team and I know the game better than most....no, we do not have a Championship caliber team to put on the field this year.
But we did not have a Championship caliber team in 08 either.....then somebody didnt get injured, and someone else made a play they normally don't...and suddenly there they were...running into the playoffs, and they just said **** it, let's play football.....and based on heart, guts, and motivation that team shocked the football world...they lost of course, but nobody ever expected them to be there in the first place.

This team is not stacked with talent...lots of guys are too young, and others are way too damned old....looking at the schedule they are anything from 10-6 to 4-12.....but what I find most interesting with this team is the attitude...and the glaring possibility that nobody told them they cannot win.....the team is excited, they are motivated, and we have all seen that when that happens, anything can happen.
So I am excited for them, motivated with them...and looking forward to seeing just exactly what will happen.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sucker for punishment I guess,...I am a Cards fan afterall....... or maybe, because I respect you as a poster and I wanted to see what you had to say...both true.

The title of the thread, rather intended or not, at least indicates a willingness, or desire, to fall in love with this years team. But a difficulty in doing so.
I watch this team and I know the game better than most....no, we do not have a Championship caliber team to put on the field this year.
But we did not have a Championship caliber team in 08 either.....then somebody didnt get injured, and someone else made a play they normally don't...and suddenly there they were...running into the playoffs, and they just said **** it, let's play football.....and based on heart, guts, and motivation that team shocked the football world...they lost of course, but nobody ever expected them to be there in the first place.

This team is not stacked with talent...lots of guys are too young, and others are way too damned old....looking at the schedule they are anything from 10-6 to 4-12.....but what I find most interesting with this team is the attitude...and the glaring possibility that nobody told them they cannot win.....the team is excited, they are motivated, and we have all seen that when that happens, anything can happen.
So I am excited for them, motivated with them...and looking forward to seeing just exactly what will happen.

Nice post.

Steve

 

[BigRedRage]

8-8 would be great this year, a step in the right direction. Next year maybe we add tackles, OLBs and get ryan williams back and build some more to 11-5

 

[TJ]

WHO?!

Our three best defensive players (Dockett, Campbell, and Wilson) are at non-impact positions, and our three worst defensive players (Lenon, Porter, and either Haggans or Jefferson--we'll find out Sunday) are at the biggest impact positions. Maybe Daryl Washington becomes the best player on our defense, but even WILB in a 3-4 defense isn't a top-five impact position.

I get that you have full faith in never-done-anything/lead-the-worst-unit-on-the-Steelers Horton, but he hasn't proven anything, and he probably doesn't have the players to run that system, anyway. Who are the successful Coordinators around the NFL who worked under Dick LeBeau?

Ugh. Enough with the snide comments, dude. You do realize teams had to pass on the Steelers because they couldn't run against them, right? That "worst unit" was simply due to circumstance, and that "worst unit" still ranked 12th in the league.

I agree (and I implied as much several times) that Horton is an unknown commodity; however, I don't think I've seen as much dedication and devotion thus far in a Cardinals' DC in a while. He could very well fall flat on his face, but it's hard to believe we'll be just as bad or worse than last season.

As for talent, I look at Dockett, Campbell, Wilson and Rhodes as pro bowl caliber players. I see D-Wash, Scho, and Peterson as guys with great upside. I am confident in D. Williams and Bradley (who will supplant Lenon eventually). I am in "wait and see" mode with AJ Jefferson, although it's kind of interesting to hear Horton talk about him like he's his first born son. It will be intriguing to see what he has in store starting Sunday (for which I will be flying in to attend [club seats, baby]).

Certainly, we have our deficiencies on defense, especially at OLB and corner; however, I am not closing the casket (especially in Week 1) on the defense. I wouldn't devalue the impact of a new DC who takes over for one who was downright awful and was questioned publicly by his own players. I don't think inspiration is the question, it's game planning at this point.

 

[TheCardFan]

8-8 in the NFC with a huge upgrade at QB is very realistic.

I personally believe we will win the division..call it 8-8 or 9-7. I don't see the talent at certain positions to threaten a run during the postseason but who thought Arian Foster, Cameron Wake, Peyton Hillis, Mike Vick, or others would have the year they did? Players can step up out of nowhere and surprise you and so can teams.

 

[Shane]

it's football season. any disappointments I've had in certain moves not being made in the off-season have all been slowly flotaing away in the last couples weeks and will be completely gone come Sunday morning.

It's week one... we're playing the worst team in the league with a rookie QB and new HC... and we're at home. I can get excited about that pretty easy!

Good stuff cheesy!

 

[Duckjake]

I know if one goes through life with very few expectations, then one avoids crushing disappointment...

On the other hand you can't go through life with blinders on ignoring things.

You don't run out and invest your life savings in a Company that all your research tells you will fail just because you like the people who work there do you?

I wouldn't be going in with the people who say this is a stepping stone or bridge year either because I heard that last year if it hadn't been for the lockout. How much better would the two key new ingredients be in our football team, Kolb and Peterson be if they'd had a normal pre season in Arizona? Dan Williams? AJ Jefferson? Daryl Washington?

Having the least experienced starting Corners in the NFL in a passing league doesn't give you a lot of hope for a winning season. However, playing 12 teams who had losing records last year does.

Again, the If and Hope Book is out. Come on Cardinals write a story in it we can be proud to read in January.

 

[Renz]

WHO?!

Our three best defensive players (Dockett, Campbell, and Wilson) are at non-impact positions, and our three worst defensive players (Lenon, Porter, and either Haggans or Jefferson--we'll find out Sunday)are at the biggest impact positions.

LOL! Sorry, I don't read Football Outsiders so I'm not an expert, but that's a ridiculous statement.

 

[TJ]

damn....just stop it...NFL football starts for real in a few hours...I am trying to get all pumped up over here, have the adrenaline carry me through till sundays game,..and here, now, on the brink of live action...someone is pissing in the cheerios again...damn.

I know if one goes through life with very few expectations, then one avoids crushing disappointment....but Cards fans rarely have an opportunity to reach for the stars,...and the eve of opening weekend is the one time throughout our history, that we have been equal to every team in the league......today, this weekend, we are a championship waiting to happen....we are an NFL films version of a miracle waiting to erupt onto the cosmos.....beating a dead horse will never make him smile for you....so chill, relax, anticipate...and like every other Cardinals fan on the planet...dream....because this weekend, our dreams mean just as much as everyone else's do.







or not...it's yer life

I totally understand where you are coming from. Sometimes, K9 posts some stuff that requires a powerful anti-depressant to read; however, it's still intriguing.

Since I am loaded with said anti-depressants, I'm stoked for football!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Good stuff cheesy!

screw you Shane!

 

[40yearfan]

it's football season. any disappointments I've had in certain moves not being made in the off-season have all been slowly flotaing away in the last couples weeks and will be completely gone come Sunday morning.

It's week one... we're playing the worst team in the league with a rookie QB and new HC... and we're at home. I can get excited about that pretty easy!

Settle down Cheese. We don't want you to get so excited that you wind up going premature.

 

[Cheesebeef]

LOL! Sorry, I don't read Football Outsiders so I'm not an expert, but that's a ridiculous statement.

really? what's ridiculous about it?

 

[oaken1]

I totally understand where you are coming from. Sometimes, K9 posts some stuff that requires a powerful anti-depressant to read; however, it's still intriguing.

Since I am loaded with said anti-depressants, I'm stoked for football!

lol...usually it's Red Bull and Vicodin for me,......but this season, just have to settle for the Red Bull,lol.....Dr's gettin stingy,lol.