I think Najee Harris is in play.

[Gandhi]

So... the second round?

Honestly, not sure how much I need to repost it, as I've posted it in multiple threads, but without the major outliers of Jordan Howard, Aaron Jones, and Chris Carson, RB picks after the 4th round are a complete wasteland of production. Teams aren't finding all of these late round gems you guys seem to think they are. Once you get past the 3rd round, production starts to fall off a cliff.

I think we are looking at different stats, Solar, and it obviously makes the debate a little complicated. So it doesn’t really matter if you would re-post anything since it apparently easily could be counter-argued with other stats. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Solar7]

I think we are looking at different stats, Solar, and it obviously makes the debate a little complicated. So it doesn’t really matter if you would re-post anything since it apparently easily could be counter-argued with other stats. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Yeah, I mean, you're talking about efficiency stats which really have no merit when the volume isn't there. A guy who has a 4.9 YPC in 20 carries over a 16-17 game season doesn't quite matter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know which excites me less, a RB or an ILB. But, whatever.

If it is a RB, Etienne is my #3 option behind Williams and Harris. From what we have seen from our offense the ability to find the hole or hit the cutback quickly and break tackles is more important than pass catching.

In terms of LB, I guess Collins makes sense if we want to put him on the edge and have a EDGE player who has more experience dropping into coverage than rushing off the edge...I can't believe I just wrote that. I think Collins can stick but we are again drafting a player to be used in a different role than he was in college. A unique concept would be to draft a more natural pass rusher to be a pass rusher but what do I know.

Maybe it is all for naught and we take one of the big 9 (if you add in the Slim Reaper, Devonta Smith). Normally I am out on WRs in round 1, but I would actually like to see our 4 wide concepts being used ala Buffalo last year and that requires WRs. Hell, we may even have enough line talent to do it.

I’m with you on Collins. Drafting another player in the first round, who’s a question mark as far as where we’d play him... again, would make me nauseous.

 

[Stout]

I’m with you on Collins. Drafting another player in the first round, who’s a question mark as far as where we’d play him... again, would make me nauseous.

Me too. This would be a cursing out the TV pick.

 

[Gandhi]

Yeah, I mean, you're talking about efficiency stats which really have no merit when the volume isn't there. A guy who has a 4.9 YPC in 20 carries over a 16-17 game season doesn't quite matter.

Honestly, it is a little patronizing to argue that I probably had not thought about that.

It is what it is. You just cannot trust blindly on your stats.

 

[Chopper0080]

Silver lining and overly-optimistic view of drafting Zaven Collins. (I am trying)

If your defense wants an EDGE player who is better at doing several different things vs one or two specific things, Zaven Collins can be that guy and it fits what he did in college. Collins has experience playing in space and from a two-point stance so a move to EDGE in a 3-4 is more sliding over a gap or two than doing something significantly different. Collins has a ton of experience dropping into coverage and has a history of creating turnovers when doing so which is valuable when utilizing zone-blitz concepts. Collins has length, strength and burst to be able to pressure the edge with either speed or power. Has the necessary athleticism to execute stunts. Vs the run Collins has demonstrated the ability to stack, lock out, shed and go get the ball carrier. This is a nice trait to have vs zone rush schemes.

In the end, I am confident in saying that Collins will not be a bust. He will probably have a role early and has the ability for that role to grow. At 16 you would assume his role will be on the EDGE but his ability to play in space at his size brings this a little bit into question. We have to keep in mind that the player is good, but similar to Simmons last year, it will be up to the coaches and team to figure out a way to get the most out of him.

(dark silver lining is that Collins is so versatile that if everyone gets fired, he should be able to fit into a new scheme very easily)

 

[slanidrac16]

Silver lining and overly-optimistic view of drafting Zaven Collins. (I am trying)

If your defense wants an EDGE player who is better at doing several different things vs one or two specific things, Zaven Collins can be that guy and it fits what he did in college. Collins has experience playing in space and from a two-point stance so a move to EDGE in a 3-4 is more sliding over a gap or two than doing something significantly different. Collins has a ton of experience dropping into coverage and has a history of creating turnovers when doing so which is valuable when utilizing zone-blitz concepts. Collins has length, strength and burst to be able to pressure the edge with either speed or power. Has the necessary athleticism to execute stunts. Vs the run Collins has demonstrated the ability to stack, lock out, shed and go get the ball carrier. This is a nice trait to have vs zone rush schemes.

In the end, I am confident in saying that Collins will not be a bust. He will probably have a role early and has the ability for that role to grow. At 16 you would assume his role will be on the EDGE but his ability to play in space at his size brings this a little bit into question. We have to keep in mind that the player is good, but similar to Simmons last year, it will be up to the coaches and team to figure out a way to get the most out of him.

(dark silver lining is that Collins is so versatile that if everyone gets fired, he should be able to fit into a new scheme very easily)

Can he play rb? Edmonds will not play in all 17 games and neither will Conner.

 

[Chopper0080]

Can he play rb? Edmonds will not play in all 17 games and neither will Conner.

He played QB in high school so maybe...

What I know is that Collins should be on the field defensively against an opponent on 4th and 2.

If we have the ball on 4th and 2, I would prefer to have the ball in my mobile franchise QBs hands than giving it to Najee Harris.

So, you can argue that one will have a critical role in key situations while the other will be in a more secondary role.

 

[slanidrac16]

He played QB in high school so maybe...

What I know is that Collins should be on the field defensively against an opponent on 4th and 2.

If we have the ball on 4th and 2, I would prefer to have the ball in my mobile franchise QBs hands than giving it to Najee Harris.

So, you can argue that one will have a critical role in key situations while the other will be in a more secondary role.

Whether it’s Harris , Etienne, Williams or Duke Johnson we need another running back. But I see your point.

 

[mjb21aztd]

So, we’d continue our off-season of not adding speed to any area of the offense or defense? Okay.

I won’t be super stoked if this is what we do, but I’d be happier than with the third or fourth corner, who both have big warts, IMO.

Are there any solid speed wrs who could be at 16?

 

[Stout]

He played QB in high school so maybe...

What I know is that Collins should be on the field defensively against an opponent on 4th and 2.

If we have the ball on 4th and 2, I would prefer to have the ball in my mobile franchise QBs hands than giving it to Najee Harris.

So, you can argue that one will have a critical role in key situations while the other will be in a more secondary role.

And other teams KNOW that and KEY on that. Without a running back threat (doesn't have to be Najee) on short downs, all the defense currently has to do is key on KM. And it has NOT ended well for us, because he's our only viable option. It is good to have another viable option in those situations.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And other teams KNOW that and KEY on that. Without a running back threat (doesn't have to be Najee) on short downs, all the defense currently has to do is key on KM. And it has NOT ended well for us, because he's our only viable option. It is good to have another viable option in those situations.

Personally I would prefer Najee Harris on 3rd and 2. Avoid risking running kyler against a stacked defense.

 

[BigRedRage]

I have no problem with 1st round RBs as long as we plan to ride them for 5 years and then let them go. If the talent is there, you take it.

 

[DVontel]

I have no problem with 1st round RBs as long as we plan to ride them for 5 years and then let them go. If the talent is there, you take it.

Which seems occasionally nowadays, which is all the more reason to not draft one high.

 

[Solar7]

I have no problem with 1st round RBs as long as we plan to ride them for 5 years and then let them go. If the talent is there, you take it.

I'll take 5 years of elite RB play over anything we've drafted in the past 10 years outside of Peterson and Murray.

 

[JeffGollin]

Depends on how we plain to use him.

 

[DVontel]

I'll take 5 years of elite RB play over anything we've drafted in the past 10 years outside of Peterson and Murray.

Can you even point to a single RB currently that has been playing elite for the past 5 years?

 

[Proximo]

Can you even point to a single RB currently that has been playing elite for the past 5 years?

mccafery is close. Zeke made it - barely, Kammera has to be getting close but I get your point it’s unlikely.

 

[jlove]

I see Najee as the same type of game changer as Zeke as far as powerful all purpose back.

I think Etienne closer to McCaffrey type but not as big a game changer.

I think if we can trade back and grab Najee I'd be happy. If we don't get Najee in 1st and dont get a RB in 1st/2nd, then Sermon is my sleeper in 5th

 

[DVontel]

mccafery is close. Zeke made it - barely, Kammera has to be getting close but I get your point it’s unlikely.

Zeke has 2 pedestrian/mediocre seasons out of 5.


CMC has only had 2 elite/great seasons

Kamara is probably the only one & he was had in the 3rd(!) round.

 

[neojdc]

Take Harris keim!

 

[Stout]

Take Harris keim!

If we can't trade out, I'd be tempted.