I Was Clearly Wrong

[azsouthendzone]

LMAO. The overreaction on this board right now is amazing.

 

[Dan H]

Maybe, maybe not. It's obvious there's an uncommon level of discipline in terms of leaks when this front office is involved.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Good points.

The QBOF comments are more than merited. There were opportunities to draft QB's during Arians' time here, and instead they went with the small school boom/bust pick.

Did that cost them a head coach candidate ?

I have no idea. I think that is relative to the poster/fan/reader. Not to mention a "top candidate" is relative too.

I am enjoying the speculation on this board right now, I think it brings up good points.

But it is speculation, not fact. Anyone's (including my own) speculation is an opinion, and nothing more. Good for talking about, but not to be taken as fact in any way.

Given the success the Cardinals had with the last hire, I personally have no issue with them using the same process as they did before.

Yet, to argue that opinion is well within good reason. The safe than sorry approach may end up with the Cardinals having to "settle" for a coach.

We will see.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Once it became known around league circles that Arians vetoed trading up for a QB (apparently Mahomes) in last year's draft, the Cards, especially MB/SK, lost a lot of the reputation they won in recent years. It was so obvious that this was the draft for the Cards to pull the trigger on a QB, yet Keim didn't pull it off. And that's after he promised upon being appointed GM to go after a QB each and every year, if necessary with our high draft picks. Correct me if I'm wrong but beside Logan Thomas, who has been a BA pick anyway and shouldn't be attributed to Keim, he didn't select a QB at all. Keim crumbles under pressure when it comes to the most important position. The league takes notice of such things. And the chatter about being attractive for not having a QB in place and the HC's freedom to choose one, it's just laughable! We don't even have one single QB on our roster, and the 15th pick in the draft. Horrid situation for any HC! I'm not surprised those coaches who already have reputation at OC/DC level aren't interested in our job. So it will be a younger positional coach or special teams coach. Again, I'm fine with that choice and wish our new HC all the best! But this whole process should really open our eyes when it comes to assessing the Cardinals franchise!

I missed the report that BA vetoed moving up for Mahomes. Prior to the draft I had the impression that BA wanted either Watson or Mahomes. Do you have a link to that source?

It would not have taken much in draft capital to move up and secure Mahomes instead of letting the Chiefs jump in front of us with Mahomes on the board.

Cards did sign Gabbert on 5/11/2017.

 

[BillsCarnage]

You listed five different defensive rankings... While leaving out one big one... 19th scoring D.

True, but they were also #5 in total drives against (200) and #7 in opponent drives resulting in a score.
#12 in redzone scores.

For the most part the D was solid.

 

[wa52lz]

True, but they were also #5 in total drives against (200) and #7 in opponent drives resulting in a score.
#12 in redzone scores.

For the most part the D was solid.

Wow #5 in drives against. Where did you find that, not doubting, just would like to see the list?

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

 

[Veer]

I missed the report that BA vetoed moving up for Mahomes. Prior to the draft I had the impression that BA wanted either Watson or Mahomes. Do you have a link to that source?

It would not have taken much in draft capital to move up and secure Mahomes instead of letting the Chiefs jump in front of us with Mahomes on the board.

Cards did sign Gabbert on 5/11/2017.

Already mentioned it once in another thread. My source is someone with close ties within another team's front office member. Knows a lot of things going on within that franchise. Unfortunately rarely has any Cards news for me, other than that draft incident.

My source has confirmed Arians didn't want a 1st round QB because he wanted to go for it in 2017. Maybe already knowing it might be his last season I guess. Keim already had a trade up for a QB in place, most likely Mahomes. I understand BA to a degree since he thought the offense with a healthy OL, Palmer and David Johnson could reach their 2015 heights while using the draft to strenghten the defense with playmakers. I don't think it would have cost that much to move up a few spots, maybe not even a 2018 pick. So they rather got Reddick and Budda instead of a young QB. No matter how good these two turn out (and I think both will be great playmakers), we still have no franchise QB and won't go anywhere without one. QB trumps anything. Really disappointed in Keim whose promise when hired as GM was going after a QB each and every year, investing prime draft capital, until finding the right one. In the end, he didn't even draft one in all the years. Logan Thomas was obviously a BA pick.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Who, exactly, have the Cards missed out on? Matt Patricia? The next NE coach to leave Belichick's wing and have success will be the first. Nagy? c'mon. Gruden? no chance at him.

The Colts, Giants, Titans and Cards haven't filled their spot.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I was wrong as well, Harry. While I have outlined all of the positives and I believe there are several, I think that the league-wide perception of the Cardinals is not very positive. i think some of it has to do with the number of players who have moved on over the past couple of years and how disgruntled many of the are and still are. I think those players tried to buy into the All or Nothing mantra, but would up feeling disillusioned to the point of even feeling like they were conned. With that in mind, I also this that Steve Keim's frugal assessments of the players' market values (as he saw them) is now backfiring on him. In the beginning, he got away with some fantastic cheap "prove it" deals for veterans---but when so many of those veterans were not rewarded with a follow-up contract offer, it made them feel like pawns in BASK's overall scheme.

The Cardinals have been exposed as pretenders...not perennial contenders. Per usual. That is their age-old stigma and it remains their stigma. All or Nothing was an exercise in rhetoric. And it fell right down like a house of cards in a 20 mile per hour breeze.

I completely agree with you on the smattering of 'one year prove it deals' because they are absolutely proving nothing to the guys hiring, the Cardinals. We get a guy on a one year deal and they prove they can play, we simply make no effort and they prove their career with someone else. Makes the Cardinals look like a baseball farm system opposed to a place of opportunity. I can see vets talking now, "you did not have a great year Bob after that injury, you might have to go the Arizona and play in the Summer League till they let you back into the NFL". These one year deals also achieve a total lack of continuity, not only the physical talent on the field, but the guys who do succeed also provide leadership which most vets do who earn their metal and then that leadership leaves... this team had to start over and find their identity every season because of the turnover rate and one cannot get better that way in a team sport

 

[Veer]

Who, exactly, have the Cards missed out on? Matt Patricia? The next NE coach to leave Belichick's wing and have success will be the first. Nagy? c'mon. Gruden? no chance at him.

The Colts, Giants, Titans and Cards haven't filled their spot.

It's been that way for quite a few years that the chosen names have been leaked early. So you call Patricia basically a done deal, while neglecting McDaniels and Shurmur? Most recent example was Kyle Shanahan, who had an agreement with the 49ers basically when Lynch became GM, and had to wait until after the Superbowl to announce it. Patricia, McDaniels and Shurmur are off the HC market. I hope MB/SK already know who our HC will be, but can't announce it anyway since our guy is still in the playoffs and hasn't had that 2nd interview in Arizona. Cards FO usually doesn't leak much info compared to others. Now since the Titans entered the HC market, MB/SK have to stick with their approach more than ever. If it wasn't for the Titans, I guess by now there would be an agreement in place and no more 2nd interviews.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'll tell you why this job is bad...and I don't think it's been mentioned

Keim and MB are trying to shove James Betcher down the interviewers throat.

I can only imagine the conversation with Pat Patricia

Pat has had a top 3 defense every year and Keim and MB are telling Pat he needs to keep Betcher on staff....he probably left laughing at them.

When you hire a HC, you let them choose the ENTIRE staff. You don't tell someone to come in and create a new menu when the last one failed, but they must still use some of the ingredients you thought worked. NA' the new chef gets to decide EVERYTHING.

And you know this from where?

 

[Chopper0080]

How do you explain Jacksonville then? There is a team that was mired in terrible seasons and lacked a good QB. They had zero fan support. They were the bottom of their division on a yearly basis.

Yet they still found a good coach and have turned things around quickly without a Franchise QB.

How?

With a kick butt Defense and a stud RB.

Doug Marrone was not a guy teams were banging down the doors for.

In terms of how they are competitive...well, this is the first year they are. It may be a fluke. It may not. They committed dollars and picks to an identity which has so far paid off. The paid Calais Campbell, and other teams didn't. They hit on Myles Jack as a 2nd round LB. They have a low cost o line...we have a high priced offensive line. Their entire receiving corp costs what Fitzgerald makes.

 

[Mitch]

Why is it bad?

Because the GM at times needs to insist on what's best for the team moving forward. SK pretty miuch gave BA carte blacnhe

Different personality types have different decision-making approaches. I'm a person who likes to problem-solve by examining an issue from as many sides/perspectives as possible. Not done to be 'right' but to be comprehensive.

I also know that can drive some personality types up the wall---especially those who think they are right and have the answer and my approach is downright annoying to them.

The full range of decision-making approaches is on display in this forum.

A good assessment tool is the Meyer-Briggs Personality Questionnaire---available online to discover your personality type:

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

Access to the assessment tool is in the upper right corner of the page. No right or wrong personality type.

(Waiting to see how many are curious and interested enough in checking it out and how many hammer me for daring to post and make the suggestion. LOL)

Wow, Gimmedaball, that is a fabulous test! I am going to have my students try it! I am a "Campaigner." I think the descriptors are pretty much accurate. What is your personality? Which of the 16?

I'd love to know what others got. This test is very worthwhile and enlightening, imo.

 

[Chopper0080]

LMAO. The overreaction on this board right now is amazing.

Is it overreaction if I have been on the side of "we don't have a QB under contract and that makes us a bottom option" since day 1?

 

[Chopper0080]

Who, exactly, have the Cards missed out on? Matt Patricia? The next NE coach to leave Belichick's wing and have success will be the first. Nagy? c'mon. Gruden? no chance at him.

The Colts, Giants, Titans and Cards haven't filled their spot.

To this point, I do believe most of the remaining candidates are roughly the same guy.

 

[Mitch]

I completely agree with you on the smattering of 'one year prove it deals' because they are absolutely proving nothing to the guys hiring, the Cardinals. We get a guy on a one year deal and they prove they can play, we simply make no effort and they prove their career with someone else. Makes the Cardinals looks like a baseball farm system opposed to a place of opportunity. I can see vets talking now, "you did not have great year Bob after that injury, you might have to go the Arizona and play in the Summer League till they let you back into the NFL". These one year deals also achieve a total lack of continuity, not only the physical talent on the field, but the guys who do succeed also provide leadership which most vets do who earn their metal and then that leadership leaves... this team had to start over and find their identity every season because of the turnover rate and one cannot get better that way in a team sport

Perfectly said and summarized, JG. Great read.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Is it overreaction if I have been on the side of "we don't have a QB under contract and that makes us a bottom option" since day 1?

Nope.

I think he was saying that about the hand wringing over the coaching search, but that is my assumption of what he is saying.

Discussion about the QB position has been going on for years now.

I fully can understand why people would be nervous about the head coaching search, I am personally not, but again, it is easy to understand why someone would be.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

I will wait for this thing to play out before I panic. Munchak passing us up was a blessing.

I agree that Munchak passing us up was a good thing since I didn't like that idea but in all honesty I don't remember a potential HC candidate shrugging off a 2nd interview with any club. I think this speaks more to the outside perception of the organization, true or not.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Who, exactly, have the Cards missed out on? Matt Patricia? The next NE coach to leave Belichick's wing and have success will be the first. Nagy? c'mon. Gruden? no chance at him.

The Colts, Giants, Titans and Cards haven't filled their spot.

Its a matter of opinion.

Just think if one of those coaches was the guy you REALLY wanted the Cardinals to get, and you find out another team has them locked down, and your team is still looking.

It would be very frustrating, and one can base a good argument of missed opportunities.

Out of all the coaches that have been taken off the market, Pat Shurmur was the only one that I liked. Even then, knowing the Cardinals will not be getting Mr. Shurmur, I am not upset or worried.

There are plenty of candidates let with the same amount of potential in my opinion, but again, that is just me.

 

[NJCardFan]

You listed five different defensive rankings... While leaving out one big one... 19th scoring D.

The D was average. Pretty bad at the beginning of the season, then once the playoffs were out of reach, played better the last five games.

Why Bettcher is any conversation to have any role on the team moving forward makes no sense to me.

Don't know if you saw my post about the Texans and DeShawn Watson but I mentioned in there that the Texans were averaging almost 40 points per game when he was the starter then after he got injured they lost 8 of their last 9 games and in those 8 losses they averaged 11.5 PPG. Their lone win, however, they scored 31 points. Wanna guess who their opponent was in that lone win? Yes, the Arizona Cardinals. Yes, James Bettcher's defense allowed Tom fricken Savage and one of the worst offenses in the league to run and pass all over us.

 

[NJCardFan]

The Colts, Giants, Titans and Cards haven't filled their spot.

Titans job just came available and it's said that Schurmer is going to the Giants so technically that leaves 3 teams.

 

[NJCardFan]

I'd love to know what others got. This test is very worthwhile and enlightening, imo.

ENTREPRENEUR

 

[Reddog]

I'll tell you why this job is bad...and I don't think it's been mentioned

Keim and MB are trying to shove James Betcher down the interviewers throat.

I can only imagine the conversation with Pat Patricia

Pat has had a top 3 defense every year and Keim and MB are telling Pat he needs to keep Betcher on staff....he probably left laughing at them.

When you hire a HC, you let them choose the ENTIRE staff. You don't tell someone to come in and create a new menu when the last one failed, but they must still use some of the ingredients you thought worked. NA' the new chef gets to decide EVERYTHING.

I doubt they are telling prospects they "Have" to keep him. SKMB are way too smart for that. They may say we like him and would love for you to consider him but MB is sitting on a 2.1B asset and is not going to sacrifice increasing the value of that investment/product over an assistant coach. Not happening. Fake news.

 

[daves]

My source has confirmed Arians didn't want a 1st round QB because he wanted to go for it in 2017.

Interesting - this directly contradicts what's been reported previously:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/fo...mer-out-to-pasture.254685/page-2#post-3563059

...dave

 

[Solar7]

Because the GM at times needs to insist on what's best for the team moving forward. SK pretty miuch gave BA carte blacnhe


Wow, Gimmedaball, that is a fabulous test! I am going to have my students try it! I am a "Campaigner." I think the descriptors are pretty much accurate. What is your personality? Which of the 16?

I'd love to know what others got. This test is very worthwhile and enlightening, imo.

I'm a "Campaigner" too.