If we just would ave gotten a center at the beginning!

Phill11

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This is crazy. I mean the Suns could be dominating the West right now. If we just would have gotten a center. Imagine this lineup...

PG-Marbury
SG- Johnson
SF- Marion
PF- Amare
C- Mutumbo

With this lineup we would dominate. We could throw any above average center in there, and still be good. This would have prevented us from "Rebuilding". All we needed was a center! Why Jerry? Why!?!?!
 

slinslin

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Joe Johnson and Marbury couldn't coexist.

Joe Johnson if he keeps playing this way will be more valueable than Marbury and very likely much cheaper and younger.

Then you can get your PG who grows with JJ rather than meshing JJ with a complete player that he can't play with.
 

Chaplin

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Mutombo? He stinks it up in New York, and that's a team that actually LIKES to play big!
 

JCSunsfan

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How much worse is Little Jake than Mutombo?

It just wasn't working. Its a great line up on paper but the skills of that group of players did not compliment one another.
 

Chaplin

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Come on. Are you saying you'd rather have Dikembe Mutombo over Jake Voskuhl?? Please tell me you're not saying that.
 

slinslin

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Mutombo is playing well for New York.

Stinking it up? He anchors their interior defense, blocks shots, changes shots, plays very good defense, even gets some good postups.

I watched Denver-Dallas tonight to watch Camby a little closer. Compared to Voshkul it is like night and day.
Voshkul is a hard worker but that is it. Camby is not only the better athlete he is much more skilled. Dribbling, decision making, defending, spacing and all those things.

I would definately like to sign Camby if he stays healthy for the rest of this season. He looks perfectly healthy, attacks the rim strong and elevates high to finish over defenders.
If Nene is 6'11, Camby is at least 7'.
 
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Chaplin

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Originally posted by slinslin
Mutombo is playing well for New York.

Stinking it up? He anchors their interior defense, blocks shots, changes shots, plays very good defense, even gets some good postups.

Tell me, then, would he be that effective for a team that runs at every opportunity? At least Jake can get down the floor somewhat quickly.

This whole Mutombo arguement is tired.
 

slinslin

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No problem. There are probably about 50 other players in this league that can play center better than Jake.

Jake is a role player that is it. He shouldn't be a starter. He is like what Mark Madsen is to the Timberwolves.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by slinslin
No problem. There are probably about 50 other players in this league that can play center better than Jake.

Jake is a role player that is it. He shouldn't be a starter. He is like what Mark Madsen is to the Timberwolves.

That may be true, but I'd still rather have him than Mutombo.
 

George O'Brien

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In his prime, Mutombo was one of the best defensive centers in the NBA. But even then, he was not much on offense.

Now, he lives mostly on reputation. He can block shots, but he moves less than Ostertag and is useless on offense. It helps that he is playing in the weaker East and is on a team with some good shooters. But he would not be helpful to the Suns at all.

As for Camby, he will be a free agnet this summer. I'm guessing he would be available for about $6 million. Unfortunately, I am afraid he would want more than a two year contract and that makes no sense with his history of health problems.
 

Chaplin

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I actually think a healthy Camby would be great for the Suns, but because he's never healthy, I don't want to take the chance. I'm sick of picking up chronically injured players, aren't you guys?
 

George O'Brien

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Originally posted by Chaplin
I actually think a healthy Camby would be great for the Suns, but because he's never healthy, I don't want to take the chance. I'm sick of picking up chronically injured players, aren't you guys?

I'd take the risk for two years, but no more than that.

Change in subject, I am beginning to wonder if the Suns are planning to let Harvey go at the end of the season or even trade him. This may mean they plan to draft a power forward (Okafor :thumbup: ) but it could mean they think that Dice might come back on a one year veteran minimum contract.

Obviously Dice coming back is based on the probably dubious assumption that he will be able to play at some decent percentage of his former sell. But if he is able to play, the Suns situation would be a reasonable one for him because he probably would not want to play a huge number of minutes. Backing up Amare for 15 minutes a game would be perfect for him.

The main reason given that Harvey is not playing is that his offensive skills are too limited for a guy who is only 6'8". By contrast, Dice was more than just a leaper and had a pretty good jumper and back tot he basket skills.

This is junt speculation.
 

elindholm

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Did I miss something? When was Mutombo available? He had the ability to sign with whoever he wanted and I didn't hear any reports that he was interested in Phoenix.
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by fordronken
I thought this was gonna be a Lou Alcindor thread.

me to.
:thumbup:

The Suns have needed a center for a long time and Mutombo is not the answer. The guy can't move.
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by Chaplin
I actually think a healthy Camby would be great for the Suns, but because he's never healthy, I don't want to take the chance. I'm sick of picking up chronically injured players, aren't you guys?

Amen! Marcus Camby would be a fantastic fit for the Phoenix Suns if he was healthy. It's going to take AT LEAST $6 million per season long-term to get him. If the Phoenix Suns do this I'll throw my hands up in the air because it will be obvious that they have learned anything about signing chronically injured players.

Originally posted by elindholm
Did I miss something? When was Mutombo available? He had the ability to sign with whoever he wanted and I didn't hear any reports that he was interested in Phoenix.

Exactly. The only time Mutombo has really been available to the Phoenix Suns was this last summer when he was released by the New Jersey Nets. By most accounts Mutombo did not want to come out last to play against the big guys, and New York threw as much money at him as Phoenix would have been able to give him.

Now I do think that this team would be better with Mutombo starting at center then they are now with Voskuhl. However a Mutombo is hardly a long-term solution. He's got to be 145 years old. He still better than anything the Phoenix Suns have at center though. I mean when was the last time Jake Voskuhl ran the fast break?

Joe Mama
 

BC867

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Originally posted by SirChaz
The Suns have needed a center for a long time.
When John MacLeod brought his Center from Oklahoma -- 6'9" - 212 lb. Alvan Adams -- to the Suns, his playing Center like a Guard took the league by surprise. It resulted in a Cinderella season, losing to the Celtics in an exciting Finals series.

The following season, MacLeod should have seen that the rest of the league was on to them and moved Adams to Forward.

But he stubbornly kept him at Center for his career, and some pretty good Power Forwards had to play out of position to cover for him.

The baby steps the Suns are taking now to beef up the Center position put them about 25 years behind the rest of the league.

Replacing Amare with CJake, then playing both Marion and him out of position are just another example of covering-light rather than covering-heavy. It just doesn't work!
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by BC867
Replacing Amare with CJake, then playing both Marion and him out of position are just another example of covering-light rather than covering-heavy. It just doesn't work!

That's true, but what do you suggest? I certainly don't think we should expect that Lampe could come in and make things better from the start. Donnell Harvey is undersized as well. The real problem here is that the Phoenix Suns three power forwards have been injured. Frankly I think they are doing as well as could be expected given the circumstances.

Joe Mama
 

George O'Brien

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One of the problems the Suns have had is that they generally were in the playoffs. That meant that they never had a chance at an early lottery pick. Sometimes there are centers that slip down into the middle of the first round, but it is something of a crap shoot.

In 2000 when the Suns took big Jake, there were a number of big men taken ahead of Jake. A few at the top did pretty well, but probably the best of the centers lasted until the #19th pick (Magolore), but he was long gone when the Suns picked.

In 2000, the top two picks were K-Mart and Stromile Swift. Swift is pretty good, but hardly a super star. Other big men taken include:

4. Marcus Fizer (pretty much a bust)
7. Chris Mihm (still pretty mediocre)
9. Joel Przybilla (injured most of the time, but still considered a bust)
12. Etan Thomas (showing some development lately, but not a top level player)
15. Jason Collier (apparently out of basketball)
19. Jamaal Magloire

Magloire is already putting up pretty impressive numbers 11.5 ppg, 45.7% shooting, 9.3 rpg, and 70% shooting from the foul line. At 6'11" 260, he is a physical defensive presence. He supposedly signed a contract extension, but I think his agent really screwed up. He could get a $10 million contract in free agency this summer without any trouble at all.

How did Magoloire slip? His first three years at Kentucky were not terribly impressive. He put up good numbers his senior year, but he may have suffered from the bane of American seniors - over scouting. After four years, the scouts are very aware of the player's faults. Besides college seniors are older and thus don't have as much "upside".

Would the Suns have taken Magloire if they had the chance? It is hard to say. Melvin Ely that went to Clips had good numbers in college and has done nothing the NBA.
 

BC867

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Originally posted by elindholm
That's true, but what do you suggest?

How about more complaining?
Doesn't it bother you at all that Amare at 6'10-245 is replaced in the starting lineup by Casey at 6'6-215?
 

elindholm

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Doesn't it bother you at all that Amare at 6'10-245 is replaced in the starting lineup by Casey at 6'6-215?

Of course. But wringing my hands doesn't do anything about it, and I think everyone on this board has the message by now.
 
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