Is it time to blow up the team?

[elindholm]

Are you drunk?

He's Irish. Let's stay away from derogatory stereotyping.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BLOW
IT
UP


get something for nash. i like the ny idea. gets back with dantoni. makes his offseason home in ny. get an unprotected pick or two from 'em.

send grant hill to anyone he wants to play for. get a couple 2nd rounders for him.

send jrich to a contender that could use his streaky shooting. get a late 1st rounder for him.

try to forget that you just signed frye to a deal that'll keep him earning $6M until he's 32.

try to squeeze some young, unused, untapped talent from someone. like try to do what the pacers did in identifying a young, unused jermaine o'neal back in the day. those types of deals have to still exist out there. just a matter of proper identification of talent. oh wait, sarver . . .

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes. Absolutely time to blow it up. Let's face it.....many fans don't think if we had kept this team in place that we could get over the Laker hump anyway. Meaning that we had to get better somehow to do it with no viable way to get better without making some major trades.

Now with losing 2 of our biggest front office guys, losing Amare, crappy signings, not having a well of young talent to draft (too many picks traded) etc...it's time IMO. I could accept having a horrible year this year if it meant getting contracts and aging vets off this team so that over the next few years we can make a splash in free agency to take another run at this.

 

[Yuma]

We just blew up this team. No way we trade Nash unless someone offers us something we can't turn down. Who is crazy enough to do that? I think we re going to make our move with Hakeem, and all the guys we already have. I really don't see us getting anyone else that would put us back into the luxury tax situation. Nash will keep us competitive during the regular season, and hopefully this is the year Dragic sucks up big minutes to keep Nash fresh once we hit the eight seed in the playoffs.

 

[Covert Rain]

We just blew up this team. No way we trade Nash unless someone offers us something we can't turn down. Who is crazy enough to do that? I think we re going to make our move with Hakeem, and all the guys we already have. I really don't see us getting anyone else that would put us back into the luxury tax situation. Nash will keep us competitive during the regular season, and hopefully this is the year Dragic sucks up big minutes to keep Nash fresh once we hit the eight seed in the playoffs.

No we didn't. We still have Nash, Hill, JRich, Barbs under contract for instance. All we did is retool by replacing Warrick with Amare.

 

[Yuma]

No we didn't. We still have Nash, Hill, JRich, Barbs under contract for instance. All we did is retool by replacing Warrick with Amare.

Getting rid of our stud PF IS blowing up the team, ihmo. You don't have to jettison everyone else to know we just took a major hit. To think people will give us anything worthwhile for what we have left is laughable. I see all these guys saying we can get all this good stuff for our over the hill guys, or an inconsistent Barbs, and I think it's way too optimistic. If we had guys other teams wanted that bad, we would have made a trade by now and kept Amar'e. We couldn't even get anyone to sign and trade with us for Amar'e. By not signing Amar'e, in essence we have blown the team up. We let go our one commodity we could do a trade with, imho.

 

[Covert Rain]

Getting rid of our stud PF IS blowing up the team, ihmo. You don't have to jettison everyone else to know we just took a major hit. To think people will give us anything worthwhile for what we have left is laughable. I see all these guys saying we can get all this good stuff for our over the hill guys, or an inconsistent Barbs, and I think it's way too optimistic. If we had guys other teams wanted that bad, we would have made a trade by now and kept Amar'e. We couldn't even get anyone to sign and trade with us for Amar'e. By not signing Amar'e, in essence we have blown the team up. We let go our one commodity we could do a trade with, imho.

If you believe Amare is the equivalent of blowing a team up...OK. However, usually when people talk about blowing a team up it's starting over and getting rid of guys that have been here during the current run.

The Suns clearly have not done that yet. We have several guys that we need to get rid of to clear up cap space and roster spots to consider this team "blown up".

 

[mojorizen7]

No we didn't. We still have Nash, Hill, JRich, Barbs under contract for instance. All we did is retool by replacing Warrick with Amare.

At the risk of me blowing up in response to the misguided idea that the SUNS have already blown it up, i'll simply quote you DarenG.

 

[Yuma]

And I am saying, you have to have willing partners in a blow it up scenario. I don't see anyone giving us first round picks for JRich, Hill, Barbosa for example. At his age and what we paid Nash, I don't see anyone trading for Nash, unless it was someone close to the Championship like the Lakers who may want to replace Fisher. So if we got a good team's first round pick, it would likely end up just above a second round pick anyway. I think Sarver is too much of a homer to let Nash go to some team like LA. To blow it up means you have tradable guys to make it happen. We would be better of letting JRich play it out and his contract coming off the books for the following season. Hill can be a good mentor and teacher to our young forwards, plus with his injury history and age, I really don't see us getting anything worthwhile in return. Barbosa has been rumored to be on the block for a couple seasons now, and he's still here. If we could get anything good for him chances are we would have done it by now. I think arguably we should blow it up, but in actuality I don't think we can unless we are willing to move our old guys and Barbs for second round picks or bench players from other teams. Might as well let our guys play out their contracts at this point.

 

[overseascardfan]

For those who want to jettison Nash and Hill for nothing more than picks, who is going to go to watch that team? You have to at least get some young cheap talent for Nash and Hill to go along with those draft picks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For those who want to jettison Nash and Hill for nothing more than picks, who is going to go to watch that team? You have to at least get some young cheap talent for Nash and Hill to go along with those draft picks.

There is no doubt that ticket sales will decline if you move Nash. But now is the perfect time to do this with a probable lockout year on the horizon.

Steve

 

[Yuma]

For those who want to jettison Nash and Hill for nothing more than picks, who is going to go to watch that team? You have to at least get some young cheap talent for Nash and Hill to go along with those draft picks.

That and I think Dragic needs Nash here for another year. I am not sure he's ready to take the reins without having Nash as a safety net. We don't want to ruin this young talent before we know he's ready.

 

[Irish]

For Hill, offering to trade him to a team of his choice is simply a way of thanking him for playing for so little these pas few years.

Nash will get $10 million this season and $11 million next. Just getting the money back would give the team some cap space even if what they get back is not huge.

J-Richardson will get $14 million this year. I wouldn't trade him unless he gets something good since he will come off the books next year anyway. Right now I'm guessing he will not go until the trade deadline.

The bottom line is deciding if making a good show is better than getting cap space for a free agent. If staying competative was a priority, then the Suns should have gone for five years. If planning on winning a champonship is the priority, then I think blowing up the team makes sense.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm hearing radio reports that Amare has a deal from the Knicks. I'm not sure this is 100%, but the Knicks were obviously a threat to overpay for Amare.

Overall, I'm ready to accept that thet the Suns are not going to make the p;layoffs this season. If so, I'd rather see the team p;repare for 2012-13 after the lockout year.

Here are a few thought:

1. Trade Nash to Toronto. The Canadians treat him like a god and the Raptors need something to sustain interest when Bosh leaves. I'm not sure what we can get back, but Nash alone is not enough.

2. Trade Hill to a team he's like to go to. Ideally the deal would be mostly for a draft pick or two and a rookie contract ;player. The Suns have some cap space once Amare signs, so the deal dod not have to match salaries.

3. Trade J-Rch to a team with a lot of cap space. This will serve as a rental for a team that has the option of just treating him as an expiring contract.

I would not unload both J-Rich and Barbosa at the same time. With the team generally gutted, at least Leandro can score.

Baring some other deals, here's what we have:

Center - Lopez and Jones
Power Forward - Frye, Harrick, and Laveil
Small Forewad - Clark and Dudley
Shooting Uuard - Barbosa + somebody in trade
Point Guard - Dragic + min fee agent

IMHO, this is a lottery team but if they can get some picks at least they can make a start at rebuilding. .

The backup PG could be Scottie Reynolds. And the backup SG could be Marcus Johnson the rookie out of USC.

 

[chickenhead]

I want Nash to retire as a Sun, but to play along with the discussion, I think the only place to move him is Toronto. IMO, his age, his back, and the possible lockout make other teams less likely to offer anything that remotely equals his worth to us. Toronto has the added PR incentive that no one else does, and it would be a move to make their fans briefly forget about the constant uphill battle that team is in.

But I don't think Sarver wants to trade him, and I'm sure Nash would have a say in it. I mean, he is Canadian, but he's from Victoria, which is pretty much the furthest Canadian city from Toronto. And when not in Phoenix, he lives in New York. Almost seems more likely that he'd want to go to the Nets. (I think the Knicks are out of play: we'll see.)

But again, I don't think he's going anywhere.

 

[Joe Mama]

I want Nash to retire as a Sun, but to play along with the discussion, I think the only place to move him is Toronto. IMO, his age, his back, and the possible lockout make other teams less likely to offer anything that remotely equals his worth to us. Toronto has the added PR incentive that no one else does, and it would be a move to make their fans briefly forget about the constant uphill battle that team is in.

But I don't think Sarver wants to trade him, and I'm sure Nash would have a say in it. I mean, he is Canadian, but he's from Victoria, which is pretty much the furthest Canadian city from Toronto. And when not in Phoenix, he lives in New York. Almost seems more likely that he'd want to go to the Nets. (I think the Knicks are out of play: we'll see.)

But again, I don't think he's going anywhere.

he's definitely not going anywhere this summer, but that's really not what's being argued here. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that thinks trading Steve Nash this summer is even the most remote possibility. The argument is whether they SHOULD explore trading him this summer. I say no way. I say let's see what they look like and what groups are possible around the trade deadline. If they are out of contention and the team is looking down that they should explore groups that will return draft picks and good young talent. Still, I think it's going to take a hell of an offer to pry either him or Jason Richardson from the Suns. Richardson is extremely valuable as a good player with a large, expiring contract... something that makes him equally valuable to the Phoenix Suns.

Joe

 

[elindholm]

Richardson is extremely valuable as a good player with a large, expiring contract... something that makes him equally valuable to the Phoenix Suns.

Richardson is also going to be the Suns' leading scorer this season, by a comfortable margin, so he's valuable for that reason too.

 

[BC867]

Richardson is also going to be the Suns' leading scorer this season, by a comfortable margin, so he's valuable for that reason too.

Excellent point. If it has to be Steve Nash, we'd be a lottery team for sure.

 

[leclerc]

You are absolutely right, the one thing Sarver underestimates is that Suns fans won't support a just okay team for long, we have been to this rodeo before with Tony Delk, Rodney Rodgers and Rex Chapman.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the francise over the next 3 years. I'll still be here though, but likely in a bad mood.

Yeah me too. I was not a big fan of the Jason Kidd and Uncle Cliffie years but I stuck around. Nash and Amare years was pretty great though

Gonna enjoy watching Nash and Hill play with Dragic and Lopez this year, hopefully Earl Clark will show us a thing or two. That could be three defensively sound players right there. I want Nash and Hill to play out their careers here and help build something in the process. No need to blow it all up but we sure could use another all-star caliber player in the lineup.

 

[carey]

Richardson is also going to be the Suns' leading scorer this season, by a comfortable margin, so he's valuable for that reason too.

Agreed. He scored almost 16 a game last season, but bumped his scoring to 20 pg in the playoffs. I look for him to average at least 20 for the season next year. Not quite career numbers, but he is still in his prime so who knows.

 

[SunsFanVegas]

Agreed. He scored almost 16 a game last season, but bumped his scoring to 20 pg in the playoffs. I look for him to average at least 20 for the season next year. Not quite career numbers, but he is still in his prime so who knows.

I think JRich will do well this year also. It just seemed like he played in Amare's shadow, and now since Amare is gone...JRich will pretty much be the man to take over scoring.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think JRich will do well this year also. It just seemed like he played in Amare's shadow, and now since Amare is gone...JRich will pretty much be the man to take over scoring.

Throughout the playoffs, you could make the case that Amare was in playing Richardson's shadow. It will be interesting to see how effective Jason can be without Amare there to draw interest from defenders.

Steve

 

[mojorizen7]

Throughout the playoffs, you could make the case that Amare was in playing Richardson's shadow. It will be interesting to see how effective Jason can be without Amare there to draw interest from defenders.

Steve

Yeah, more jump shooting....its gonna be awesome.

 

[SunsFanVegas]

This is true, but maybe JRich has some inside moves that he was saving...lol

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, more jump shooting....its gonna be awesome.

Does Dragic have a back to the basket game? If so, all our problems are solved.

Steve