Is Kyler Murray the answer at QB for next year and beyond?

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Why did they put it in his contract?

Dumb owner and drunk GM

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I've seen enough of Kyler to know he's not it. He can't throw with anticipation. He's often late. He can't throw guys open by positioning the ball where only they can get it. Guys need to get wide ass open for him to hit them. He has his moments, either by luck or temporary reprieve, but he's just never going to be able to do the things that good QB's need to be able to do.

I really really hate agreeing with this, but after watching Stroud regularly find guys and hit them in stride in his rookie season, I'm tired of making excuses for Kyler. He just doesn't seem to be able to handle running an offense and accounting for a D at the same time.

Most troublesome, he just doesn't seem to be getting any better. His only outstanding attribute right now is escapability, and unless he learns to read an NFL D or play with anticipation, it's hard to imagine him ever being an elite QB.

That said - what's the alternative? Good QB's are really hard to find! I think the best case scenario is to build up a team that you think will succeed with the proper QB, whether it be Kyler or someone else. Monti did a terrible job of building up a proper team around a QB, so it's hard to tell anything with this season.

 

[TheCardFan]

S/o to the Chiefs/Ravens/Eagles/49ers.

I hear what you are saying and it makes sense.

One thing to consider - I don't think any of those teams were paying a top 5/6 (ACV) QB while building the roster.

I think that creates a barrier for us.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He’s simply broken both mentally and physically. Working for this organization can do that to people.

 

[LA Redbird]

That said - what's the alternative? Good QB's are really hard to find! I think the best case scenario is to build up a team that you think will succeed with the proper QB, whether it be Kyler or someone else. Monti did a terrible job of building up a proper team around a QB, so it's hard to tell anything with this season.

I said something in another thread - don't sweat it for a QB in the draft this year. There's "generational talent" EVERY DAMN YEAR. Just a couple years ago or so, Trevor Lawrence was supposedly going to revolutionize the position. The point is, don't get sucked into the hype. Ride with Kyler next year again (I'm ready to move on right now, but....), let his cap number diminish, let the scale of his hit diminish, and let the cap grow. Proportionally, he becomes more affordable for us and more palatable for another team. Build out the rest of the roster this year in the draft and plan for a QB in 2025. I think that's a more proper way to build out a roster anyway (to your point, btw).

 

[DVontel]

One thing to consider - I don't think any of those teams were paying a top 5/6 (ACV) QB while building the roster.

I think that creates a barrier for us.

I don’t know if they were paid top 5/6 money, but they definitely weren’t on rookie contracts either aka Flacco/Alex Smith/Wentz/Jimmy before their successors came in.

Like those teams’ GMs, we better hope Monti hits & hits hard with these high premium picks coming up.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He’s simply broken both mentally and physically. Working for this organization can do that to people.

I don't know. Purdy threw a few dimes yesterday but he also was rarely bothered by a pass rush and was mostly throwing to pretty open receivers.

It's much easier to play QB that way, and is even easier when you know your playmakers can bale you out a bit and you know your defense is also going to make plays. Psychology matters significantly here.

 

[Chopper0080]

S/o to the Chiefs/Ravens/Eagles/49ers.

Three of the best HCs in football tho. Just saying. Herbert isn't working because he had a jackass HC. Or at least, that is a large reason. I think you have to make decisions believing Gannon and Monti are good and not Kliff and Keim 2.0.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think we are stuck with Murray next year so...that is what it is. It probably lands us with a 6 - 8 win season. That puts us in the purgatory that I was told we would be avoiding but also some wins to celebrate.

 

[DVontel]

Three of the best HCs in football tho. Just saying

Doesn’t matter. Shanahan wasn’t looked at as a great HC until they were able to build & Jimmy G tearing his ACL was able to land both cornerstones in Bosa & Deebo. Reid was looked at as a perennial choke-artist until he was able to build up KC then trade up for Pat. Harbaugh was stuck for a bit but then was able to cash in on Lamar with the team already built:

Herbert isn't working because he had a jackass HC. Or at least, that is a large reason.

And a jackass GM with a mediocre roster. Herbert bring out for the reason honestly might have saved his future. They were able to stop overachieving.

 

[football karma]

i suspect this thread will be alive and well 12 mos from now

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know. Purdy threw a few dimes yesterday but he also was rarely bothered by a pass rush and was mostly throwing to pretty open receivers.

It's much easier to play QB that way, and is even easier when you know your playmakers can bale you out a bit and you know your defense is also going to make plays. Psychology matters significantly here.

The longer Purdy plays mvp level QB the more poorly your Purdy takes become.

He made a play yesterday that maybe he and mahomes make and no one else. We had a free runner on a blitz. Purdy recognized it and immediately threw the ball without it getting knocked down to the exact spot to hit kittle in stride before kittle even hit his break. It was a breathtaking read, react and throw. That’s next QB IQ. Time that dude received his due on this board. Continuing to downplay will eventually look as silly as all the posters downplaying shanahan years ago.

 

[OmahaCardsFan]

i suspect this thread will be alive and well 12 mos from now

Well, I certainly enjoy reading all the thoughts flowing out of the heads from a variety of posters here. Keep'em coming, there are basically 2 categories they fall in - a) keep kyler and build around him either hoping he improves with better support then trade in later year(s) if he doesn't pan out OR b) Take advantage of the high draft pick this year and get one of this' year's top QBs, take the hit on kyler & trade in 24' and build what you can with the later round picks. I fall into category a). Personally I just don't think he pan's out as an elite QB worth the $s. I don't see him raising the talent of the offensive roster even though the talent is sitting on a low bar. With that said, I hope I am dead wrong.

 

[kerouac9]

He’s simply broken both mentally and physically. Working for this organization can do that to people.

In retrospect, teaching Kyler how to accept losing probably wasn't a good strategy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The longer Purdy plays mvp level QB the more poorly your Purdy takes become.

He made a play yesterday that maybe he and mahomes make and no one else. We had a free runner on a blitz. Purdy recognized it and immediately threw the ball without it getting knocked down to the exact spot to hit kittle in stride before kittle even hit his break. It was a breathtaking read, react and throw. That’s next QB IQ. Time that dude received his due on this board. Continuing to downplay will eventually look as silly as all the posters downplaying shanahan years ago.

No one has ever questioned Purdys mental acuity. The fact that you can pick out one throw is more evidence he's not an elite talent.

I watched Brady make that throw 6 times a game for 20 years.

Just like that graphic that was posted last week demonstrated, Jimmy Garapolo posted the exact same numbers over his first 25 starts too. The Shanahan voodoo is tricking you; Purdy is a capable NFL QB being made to look great by an elite supporting cast. Put a Mahomes in this offense and he's scoring 70.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

i suspect this thread will be alive and well 12 mos from now

A battle for the soul of ASFN that will rage with unprecdented fury.

 

[Chopper0080]

Doesn’t matter. Shanahan wasn’t looked at as a great HC until they were able to build & Jimmy G tearing his ACL was able to land both cornerstones in Bosa & Deebo. Reid was looked at as a perennial choke-artist until he was able to build up KC then trade up for Pat. Harbaugh was stuck for a bit but then was able to cash in on Lamar with the team already built:

And a jackass GM with a mediocre roster. Herbert bring out for the reason honestly might have saved his future. They were able to stop overachieving.

Neither Alex Smith nor JImmy G were making 45 mil. For what it is worth, I am not disagreeing with you. I think the quickest path to mediocrity is with Kyler but that taps out what we can be with him. I just feel it is easier to assemble a top roster with a QB on a rookie deal than with a QB making 45 mil and then having to figure out how to acquire and develop a young QB with a defensive HC. THat is why I would take Maye if I didn't have to trade up for him. But that is more of a risk/reward proposition.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

In retrospect, teaching Kyler how to accept losing probably wasn't a good strategy.

He truly has become one of us.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kyler Murray is the literal football embodiment of Purgatory. Why people want to build around Purgatory, and putting off the inevitable for ANOTHER season, after supporting punting on this season to stay out of purgatory is one of the most mind-boggling arguments I’ve seen on this board for a long time.

 

[BritCard]

Two things:

1) I actually agree with this strategy. I think that Kyler Murray is good enough that odds are pretty low that in any draft, even with the #1 pick, you'll get a prospect better than him. So you continue to build around him. That's easier if your QB's contract isn't nearly possible to get out from, but that's a sunk cost at this point.

2) So you either have to have a generational offensive-minded head coach (Reid/Shanahan) or the one of best GMs of their generation (Roseman/DeCosta)? It really feels like 48 hours ago you'd be saying that the Ravens were in purgatory.

It's really hard to take this model seriously when teams like New England, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Denver, Cleveland, Tampa, Tennessee, and Washington have walked this road to nowheresville. Even Jalen Hurts was considered an unserious QB prospect until two years ago.

What's your measure of success here? You have Eagles and Ravens in the good side but they haven't won anything. Neither have the Niners.

But you have Steelers in the bad side with their no losing seasons in 20 years and consistent playoff appearances. Also Tampa, who built a great roster and parachuted Brady in to win a SB.

The line seems all over the place.

You can argue that the most successful teams of the past 5 years built good rosters and then dropped in the quarterback to get them over. Chiefs, Eagles, Bucs, Niners and Rams. The only consistently good team I can think of that drafted in a rookie QB in the last 5 years and became constant challengers in their division and next to automatic playoff team because of that QB is the Bengals with Burrow.

This is a simplistic view of course, there are other factors like coaching but I think it's easy to argue there is no single way to do it and the situation we find ourselves in with Kyler's contract rather ties our hands.

 

[PACardsFan]

Joe Flacco will probably waiting in the wings.

Flacco is the reincarnation of Vinny Testaverde lol.

 

[DVontel]

Neither Alex Smith nor JImmy G were making 45 mil.

They also weren’t on rookie contracts.

I just feel it is easier to assemble a top roster with a QB on a rookie deal

I believe this has become one of the most overrated talking points in sports. This ONLY works if that team already has good talent before the QB is even on the team. It really doesn’t mean jack if the team is starting from the very bottom. I have seen this play out with us & I'm currently seeing it play out with the Chargers & Jaguars right now. Bengals would probably be in this spot too if Burrow didn’t tear his ACL which allowed Cincy to get Ja’Marr.

THat is why I would take Maye if I didn't have to trade up for him.

I initially would too, but unless Monti had 2-3 2017 Saints-esque drafts in a row, we would be a fraudulent playoff team at best if Maye played great. That wouldn’t be fair to Maye because I already know our fanbase would be questioning him when in reality he wouldn’t be able to “elevate” a mediocre squad against teams with way more talent than us.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I believe this has become one of the most overrated talking points in sports. This ONLY works if that team already has good talent before the QB is even on the team. It really doesn’t mean jack if the team is starting from the very bottom.

Niners and Seahawks had super squads loaded with pro bowlers when they added Russ/Kap. We did our best to add big names like AJ Green and Watt, but that was as close as we were going to get...Seattle and SF had pro bowl talent at the time that could be properly compensated bc the QB was making rookie money.

 

[BritCard]

I think we are stuck with Murray next year so...that is what it is. It probably lands us with a 6 - 8 win season. That puts us in the purgatory that I was told we would be avoiding but also some wins to celebrate.

I think we can win more.

All that's been said here about Kyler is true, and he's not a guy that's going to elevate everyone and carry the team on his shoulders. But if our run game carries on being what it has been this year, or even better, and we can greatly improve the defense, then Kyler's limitations can be worked around.

I think we can be a 10 win team with Kyler, albeit one that loses in the wildcard round, with a top 15 defense and a top 10 rush attack.

We put 29 on the Niners. That's not nothing. With a stronger defense we could compete.

 

[SoonerLou]

@Crimson Warrior Would have guessed Baker Mayfield would have 24 tds to 8 ints. While Kyler has 4 tds to 4 ints.
Tough times.