Is Stone salvageable?

spanky1

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I mean he has the perect size and speed to be a star......is it a lack of coaching that has held him back?

Would be nice to see him "come back"......would sure help us if he could.
 

vince56

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You can't coach IQ. Barring that, I'd love to see him develop, I just don't think it'll happen.
 

Stout

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Ain't gonna happen. It'd be a nice surprise, and unless we can save cap $$$ by cutting him now, I wouldn't mind bringing him to camp...but if he continues to suck, he needs cut. We can use the roster spot.
 

Cardiac

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Funny thing is that I think most of us forgot about Stone. I don't think it's a intelligence thing as much as a stubborness thing. He doesn't seem open to coaching. His sister came on here in the summer and defended him, as best she could. He as an architects or engineering degree, so he isn't an idiot.

Yep, if the cap is okay bring him back, couldn't hurt.;)

I have wanted to type that for quite some time now.
 
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spanky1

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Originally posted by Stout
Ain't gonna happen. It'd be a nice surprise, and unless we can save cap $$$ by cutting him now, I wouldn't mind bringing him to camp...but if he continues to suck, he needs cut. We can use the roster spot.

He'll be in camp.......for how long is the issue. I remember his sister posting that it was a coaching thing and not a talent thing with him. That is what prompted me to post this thread. I agree it's not an IQ thing.....he's not stupid.

While we still need to sign a FA of the caliber of Winfield and draft a CB with our #33 this year.....it would be a real bonus to see him develop....he was a 2nd round pick afterall. As I just posted elsewhere moments ago, it would be a shame to cut him and see him start on another team in a year or so......a la Darwin Walker in Philadelphia.
 

nidan

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I doubt it was the coaching, the DB coach seemed pretty knowlegable.

I couldn't mention it before but he did tell me that some (1 or more) of the DB's didn't want to listen
 

cardsunsfan

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You know people do have different types of intelligence. Not everybody has a football mind, and of course there are different positions where you have to think differently too.

I have a fairly high IQ (well at least according to IQ tests) and found college quite easy but I'm stupid in a lot of ways :) I also don't know if I would be able to be a pro safety even if I were the physical specimen I would need to be to play that position. You have to be very attuned spatially. Something I never was that great at.
 

AZCB34

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Originally posted by nidan
I doubt it was the coaching, the DB coach seemed pretty knowlegable.

I couldn't mention it before but he did tell me that some (1 or more) of the DB's didn't want to listen

Did you think he tuned out because they were trying to switch him to S?

Like Cardiac, I understood he is intelligent but I had understood there were technique issues with him...but that may have just been some rumor.
 

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I thought the main theme from his sister was that he should be playing corner but the coaches seemed intent on making him play safety..which is odd because we needed more help at corner this past year than at safety....
 

vince56

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Mind you, I really didn't have faith in our previous coaching staff to make good, solid, educated decisions. However, I'll be the first to admit if we had a valid cornerback buried somewhere on the team (like Mr. Stone), I think even the previous coaching staff would've been smart enough to have at least suited him up if he could even kinda/sorta play CB.

I just don't think he has it. He's been the 53rd player on arguably the worst team in football for the last 2-3 years. It's time to move on.
 

AZCB34

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This is a no lose situation for the Cards. First, his contract ends in 2004 so they stand to lose nothing by bringing him into camp and letting him compete. Second, it isn't like they are deep at CB. If he is any good with the new regime, he will make the team.

Let's assume that DB coach was refering to Stone when he mentioned guys not listening. First, Stone will have to overcome that stigma in the eyes of his current coaches. Second, he will have to prove himself worthy of a roster spot at CB or S ...but he MUST prove himself on ST at this point for any guarantees. ST is an area I felt like he was starting to show himself.

Solomon is the key in all this. Can he get this guy to use his given abilities to suddenly show he was worth the pick?

Regardless of the reasons his sister gave when she came on board, the slate is clean. This is his last shot.
 

pinnacle

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although I thought we should have perhaps retained a couple of our coaches - the dback coach and tolbert (receivers) were in the 1st year of their contracts. ..I figured a guy who had only been on the staff one year may get a look from the new coaches - but perhaps not.. I think tolbert deserved to stay (he is the guy who insisted we draft boldin)....but....I am now glad we have 100% turnover at the coaching level - all old theories/opinions on certain players on the roster are gone and we are starting with a clean slate....which is what the players and organization needed.
 

Tangodnzr

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First of all, I was the one that essentially established somewhat of a diaglogue with his sister the day she came on. a lot of others who responded were being negative jackasses.

What she said was: essentially that there had been some "preferential" treatment or favoritism by some asst. coache(s). I don't remember any one specifically named, but it I pretty much supposed it was most likely, Kevin Ramsey, who was the DB coach here Stone's first 2 years. I think she did mention some kind of college affiliation involved, but I'd have to go back and find the thread to be sure.

I'm fairly sure Stone signed a 3 year contract, but being put on IR last year, meant it didn't count, so he really has 1 more year left on his contract. (If I've interpreted things correctly.)

He has all the measureables. Who knows? Maybe there was some truth to it. Ramsey was replaced last year, by Ron Milus, so maybe there was some truth to it. I think that's touching the crux of the "problem" with him.

He IS talented. He IS intelligent. So whose "fault" is it if he's been hired but not developed? Sure part of it has to be his responsibilty. But its also the job of the coaches to "develop" their players....that's what they're hired for.

Stone has never exhibited any blatant attitude problems, that I've ever seen. It has been inferred, I'm not even sure exactly by whom all, that he has not been "the quickest on the uptake", so to speak? To me, if the guy is talented, doesn't really demonstrate an overt attitude problem, yet communication is still lacking.....If I'm the owner/manager, I'm going to be on the coaches butt as much or more than the player.

To me its like in commercial enterprise.......It amazes me to sometimes see businesses invest a lot of money in advertising to get customers "through their doors", then treat them like crap when they do appear.
If a player's "mental receiver" is tuned to 101 FM but you keep trying to get him to listen to 606 AM, then YOU need to tune in to 101 to communicate with him, if you realistically want to get the communication established.

Remember too, that its only supposition that Stone might be one of those "not wanting to listen". I always thought any comments like that were generally more aimed in Wilson's direction. He's the one that's been "rumored" to be a little to much free lance "hot dog" at times.

I'm interested to see what happens with Stone with the new regime. He still could very well be a late blooming "gem".

HIs sister did say that he didn't start playing football until very late. I'm not sure if that is indeed true, but if it is, and remembering that he came out early, could also be contributing factors to him not picking up the "nuances of the pro game" the most rapidly.

For what they are paying him, there's no way they should cut him at this point. It's really a no-lose situation to keep him around until he definitely proves otherwise.
 

Tangodnzr

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PS....remember too, that one of Clancy Pendergrasts main area of expertise is DB's. So I think, much like, for example, Sullivan last year, it's not going to be JUST Solomon "working" with DB's.
 

red desert

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Stone has never exhibited any blatant attitude problems, that I've ever seen.

When was the last time you were on the practice field with the team? How about in the the locker room?
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by red desert
When was the last time you were on the practice field with the team? How about in the the locker room?

So what's bugging you bunky????

Did I say I was? What's your point?

Maybe I should have added "or heard" to "from what I've seen".

Bad attitudes show up on the gamefield too. Certainly not everything. Again there has never been any rumors about him having a"bad attutude", as such. How many have ever seen Terrell Owens, or Me-shawn, etc. "on the practice field or in the locker room".

Me thinks you are just trying to provoke trouble, or just carrying some kind of chip on your shoulder, for some reason, more than anything.

:shrug:
 
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Stout

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Tango, your defense of this guy amazes me. When has he showed an iota of this so-called 'talent'? Truly, when? Never. Ever. Only in your mind has he ever shown he's talented. Does he have speed and quickness? Yes. Did he show potential coming out of college? Yes, but raw potential. Has he ever shown that potential? No, not as yet. Will he? It's always possible, sure. Is it likely?

At this date, there's nothing to point to that shows this to be likely. So, we can wait and hope, but your incessant insistance that it's somehown not his own fault, because he's talented, is rather silly, man.
 

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stone has been given every chance to proove himself. renaldo hill was drafted in the 6th or 7th rd the same year stone was picked. somebody please correct me if i'm wrong. hill showed he has more skill than stone. my point is stone never made it to fourth cb. that is stone's original position. he a bust for the cardinals. let us move on.
 

nidan

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Originally posted by AZCB34
Did you think he tuned out because they were trying to switch him to S?

I never said it was Stone, the coach didn't tell me. I got the impression that is was a issue of attitude, but I have not actual information
 

Cardiac

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
First of all, I was the one that essentially established somewhat of a diaglogue with his sister the day she came on. a lot of others who responded were being negative jackasses.

What she said was: essentially that there had been some "preferential" treatment or favoritism by some asst. coache(s). I don't remember any one specifically named, but it I pretty much supposed it was most likely, Kevin Ramsey, who was the DB coach here Stone's first 2 years. I think she did mention some kind of college affiliation involved, but I'd have to go back and find the thread to be sure.

I'm fairly sure Stone signed a 3 year contract, but being put on IR last year, meant it didn't count, so he really has 1 more year left on his contract. (If I've interpreted things correctly.)

He has all the measureables. Who knows? Maybe there was some truth to it. Ramsey was replaced last year, by Ron Milus, so maybe there was some truth to it. I think that's touching the crux of the "problem" with him.

He IS talented. He IS intelligent. So whose "fault" is it if he's been hired but not developed? Sure part of it has to be his responsibilty. But its also the job of the coaches to "develop" their players....that's what they're hired for.

Stone has never exhibited any blatant attitude problems, that I've ever seen. It has been inferred, I'm not even sure exactly by whom all, that he has not been "the quickest on the uptake", so to speak? To me, if the guy is talented, doesn't really demonstrate an overt attitude problem, yet communication is still lacking.....If I'm the owner/manager, I'm going to be on the coaches butt as much or more than the player.

To me its like in commercial enterprise.......It amazes me to sometimes see businesses invest a lot of money in advertising to get customers "through their doors", then treat them like crap when they do appear.
If a player's "mental receiver" is tuned to 101 FM but you keep trying to get him to listen to 606 AM, then YOU need to tune in to 101 to communicate with him, if you realistically want to get the communication established.

Remember too, that its only supposition that Stone might be one of those "not wanting to listen". I always thought any comments like that were generally more aimed in Wilson's direction. He's the one that's been "rumored" to be a little to much free lance "hot dog" at times.

I'm interested to see what happens with Stone with the new regime. He still could very well be a late blooming "gem".

HIs sister did say that he didn't start playing football until very late. I'm not sure if that is indeed true, but if it is, and remembering that he came out early, could also be contributing factors to him not picking up the "nuances of the pro game" the most rapidly.

For what they are paying him, there's no way they should cut him at this point. It's really a no-lose situation to keep him around until he definitely proves otherwise.


Good memory Tango, and a quality post.

I think too many people will take your points of view as if you are stating a fact instead of what ifs etc.

Your analogy of the radio stations was perfect.

I also agree that Pendergrast will be very involved with the DB's. This ease's my mind about Solomen somewhat.
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by Stout
Tango, your defense of this guy amazes me. When has he showed an iota of this so-called 'talent'? Truly, when? Never. Ever. Only in your mind has he ever shown he's talented. Does he have speed and quickness? Yes. Did he show potential coming out of college? Yes, but raw potential. Has he ever shown that potential? No, not as yet. Will he? It's always possible, sure. Is it likely?

At this date, there's nothing to point to that shows this to be likely. So, we can wait and hope, but your incessant insistance that it's somehown not his own fault, because he's talented, is rather silly, man.

Silly?????

I'll just consider the source on that little comment. :shrug:
 

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I don't claim to be any kind of scout, but I watched Stone closely at camp last year and he looked pretty bad. He was playing safety and he did not look comfortable to me and I don't remember him making any kind of special plays either. In fact, the only plays that stand out are ones where he was beaten or missed tackles.

Maybe the new coaches can get something out of him. This is definitely his last camp as a Cardinal if he doesn't show something this summer.
 

Stout

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Silly?????

I'll just consider the source on that little comment. :shrug:

Nice retort to an honest and rather to-the-point post. Your arrogant, childish retorts fall off my shoulders as raindrops from an umbrella.

Tango, WHAT IS YOUR PROOF THAT STONE HAS TALENT?

There. If you can answer with ANY kind of substantiated proof, I'll be shocked. The problem is, you can't. He had potential, he had raw physical tools, and that's it. We hoped he had talent. There is a slim, albeit very slim, chance he still has potential talent. We haven't seen it yet, though, and to say otherwise is to show blind faith in a player that has, to date, not produced at the NFL leve.

So, please, do you have any kind of rational response? Or will it be more of your standard 'I'm better than you' drivel?
 

Tangodnzr

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Originally posted by Stout
Nice retort to an honest and rather to-the-point post. Your arrogant, childish retorts fall off my shoulders as raindrops from an umbrella.

Tango, WHAT IS YOUR PROOF THAT STONE HAS TALENT?

There. If you can answer with ANY kind of substantiated proof, I'll be shocked. The problem is, you can't. He had potential, he had raw physical tools, and that's it. We hoped he had talent. There is a slim, albeit very slim, chance he still has potential talent. We haven't seen it yet, though, and to say otherwise is to show blind faith in a player that has, to date, not produced at the NFL leve.

So, please, do you have any kind of rational response? Or will it be more of your standard 'I'm better than you' drivel?

I know this may be hard....but.....would you please go back and actually read completely through your post again?

For something that is purportedly "rather to the point", I guess maybe I'm a little dense or something. :D I'm not sure just what your point is? Are You? Just exactly what IS your real point with your last couple of posts??????

I hope you didn't get dizzy re-reading your post. You seem to have the "talent" for talking/arguing in circles that often end up being in really nothing more than word games.

Why is that the comments I have made about Michael Stone seem to upset you so much?

What IS ....YOUR....point???
 
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