Kingsbury and Keim get contract extensions

[BritCard]

I love people who think that people have a duty to respond directly to their premise.

Mike B, privy to information that you can't lay claim to, is satisfied with KK's 'improvement', and that effectively is the end of the story for now.

Anyone saying Kliff hasn't improved hasn't been paying attention.

Ignoring the 11 wins his RZ offense has improved massively. His game management and game planning improved a great deal this year over last year. Even things like his wins against teams with winning records. I think he had 4 in his previous 2 seasons combined but had 5 this year alone. All against playoff teams. He had 2 more wins against teams that finished 8-9.

Obvious improvement.

 

[QuebecCard]

So still nothing you can note Kliffys improvement on? Ok, cool. Good job pal.

See: #251 for details.

 

[DaHilg]

Anyone saying Kliff hasn't improved hasn't been paying attention.

Ignoring the 11 wins his RZ offense has improved massively. His game management and game planning improved a great deal this year over last year. Even things like his wins against teams with winning records. I think he had 4 in his previous 2 seasons combined but had 5 this year alone. All against playoff teams. He had 2 more wins against teams that finished 8-9.

Obvious improvement.

Lol this ridiculously false - did you not see how terrible we were in the red zone the second half of the season ?

 

[kerouac9]

There's a gap between people saying they shouldn't have been extended and those saying "Actually these guys are good."

People here said that Keim should've been fired after last season, which may or may not be true. People said that Kliff should've been fired after last season, which I think to be false.

That said, NO ONE ON THIS BOARD was saying that Actually We Should Extend Both of Them Immediately. They were both under contract for two more years if the Cards wanted them. They are facing an extremely challenging season this year; what's the hurry to lock them up?

 

[BritCard]

There's a gap between people saying they shouldn't have been extended and those saying "Actually these guys are good."

People here said that Keim should've been fired after last season, which may or may not be true. People said that Kliff should've been fired after last season, which I think to be false.

That said, NO ONE ON THIS BOARD was saying that Actually We Should Extend Both of Them Immediately. They were both under contract for two more years if the Cards wanted them. They are facing an extremely challenging season this year; what's the hurry to lock them up?

I think Kliff was ok for 2 more years, he had next year and a team option for year 5. But I don;t think Keim did. His last deal was a year earlier. I think he was up next year.

Probably why they did Kliff too. Put them both in sync.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There's a gap between people saying they shouldn't have been extended and those saying "Actually these guys are good."

People here said that Keim should've been fired after last season, which may or may not be true. People said that Kliff should've been fired after last season, which I think to be false.

That said, NO ONE ON THIS BOARD was saying that Actually We Should Extend Both of Them Immediately. They were both under contract for two more years if the Cards wanted them. They are facing an extremely challenging season this year; what's the hurry to lock them up?

Just doesn’t make sense. Neither were lane ducks with an option 5th... eh... who cares.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

I can watch the first few games then go hiking every Sunday afternoon once it cools down.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Bidwills gonna Bidwill.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I would love to hear where you have seen Kliffy grow as a coach. More creative offensive schemes? Heck no!

I have seen a ton of creativity from the Cardinals under Kliff and the offense has steadily improved.

Better play calling in the red zone? Lol.

Okay....

Time management/situational play? Lol. Ability to adjust ? Lolz

Plenty of adjustments. Substantial more use of 11 and 12 personnel. Mixed in play action and under center. It's tough to do a lot more when your QB struggles at basic NFL concepts though.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I understand some of the frustration here but I don't think a lot of it is looking at the bigger picture.

I've been a big Kliff critic, but I can also see he improved a lot this year. 11 wins is tied 2nd for post merger season wins. Coryell had 11 in '75 (although in 14 games) and BA in 2014. Can you really fire your HC after 11 wins? Especially for a franchise like the Cardinals.

And he did it in the toughest division in football. Much tougher than when BA did it. Hell, the Rams and Niners were in the NFCCG and the worst team in the division still had 7 wins.

One thing I will say about Kliff is that each year he has had a major issue he has fixed in the off season. Year 1 it was RZ offense, which he fixed in year 2. Year 2 was game management and game planning which he at least greatly improved on in year 3. He is clearly improving.

The Titans have finished first in the AFC South the last 2 seasons but been 1 and done in the playoffs. Yet Vrabel just got an extension. I would argue that Zac Taylor in no better than Kliff. If not for injuries and some poor leadership down the stretch you can argue the Cardinals could have done what the Bengals did. Zac Taylor isn't a better coach than Kliff, but he didn't lose key players have have a sulky quitter of a QB. Taylor was just extended too.

Ballard and Reich were extended last off season. Despite not making the playoffs in 2019 and going out in the WC round in 2020. Ballard, who is lauded as one of the best GM's in the league, had a 32-32 record at the time. It's now 41-40.

So it's not really a surprise that they wanted to keep Kliff. And like it or not, Kliff and Keim are tied together.

Voice of reason.

 

[TRW]

Voice of Sauron.

FTFY

(Just kidding Brit)

 

[Krangodnzr]

5... 8... 11... (playoff game).

Trying to think of a term that may describe this.

Let's see, let's see???

Got it!

In fact, I just thought of two: growth and improvement.

Yeah he can "lulz" all he wants, but there has been steady improvement on the team over the past three years in the win column AND the stat sheet.

I've said this over and over again...Kliff, Keim, AND Kyler can't be all terrible and win 11 games. But if you just read this board with no context, you would think the Cardinals just gave extensions to a regime that won 3 games. Tons of over the top hyperbole.

I would have moved on from Keim, I've said that over and over. The talent is too old and isn't sustainable year to year. But it's hard to move on from a GM who has lead a 3 game year to year improvement, just as it is the coach.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lol this ridiculously false - did you not see how terrible we were in the red zone the second half of the season ?

Cool story...without any context.

When a team is missing WR1, RB1, other WRs, and at times half the offensive line, a team is going to struggle a bit.

I watched Colt McCoy annihilate the NFC runners up, a team with a really good defense. And yet you probably give Kliff no credit.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I have seen a ton of creativity from the Cardinals under Kliff and the offense has steadily improved.

Okay....

Plenty of adjustments. Substantial more use of 11 and 12 personnel. Mixed in play action and under center. It's tough to do a lot more when your QB struggles at basic NFL concepts though.

They look incredible in the beginning of the season. Then other teams adjust, while the Cards haven't.

Have you not seen the last 2 years? Should we completely ignore the fact that the team couldn't win any game when it counts, or that instead of getting better, they get considerably worse?

We're really going to talk about red zone improvement? Does this sound like improvement? https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/cardinals-still-looking-for-red-zone-answers-without-hopkins

The most galling part about all of this, is when this group fails again next year, there will STILL be the same apologists making excuses about injuries or blaming this that or the other thing.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess we are at the anger / bargaining stage of grief.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They look incredible in the beginning of the season. Then other teams adjust, while the Cards haven't.

Is this true or this this conjecture? Are you going to account for all of the injuries to KEY players? Naw that would take making a non-emotional argument.

Have you not seen the last 2 years? Should we completely ignore the fact that the team couldn't win any game when it counts, or that instead of getting better, they get considerably worse?

I have and it is concerning. The Cardinals have a QB who gets knicked up and then plays like crap at the end of every year.

We're really going to talk about red zone improvement? Does this sound like improvement? https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/cardinals-still-looking-for-red-zone-answers-without-hopkins

How would Stafford look without Kupp? Rodgers without Adams? We saw Rodgers without Adams and I wasn't impressed.

The most galling part about all of this, is when this group fails again next year, there will STILL be the same apologists making excuses about injuries or blaming this that or the other thing.

<yawn>

 

[Stout]

I have seen a ton of creativity from the Cardinals under Kliff and the offense has steadily improved.

Okay....

Plenty of adjustments. Substantial more use of 11 and 12 personnel. Mixed in play action and under center. It's tough to do a lot more when your QB struggles at basic NFL concepts though.

Still major problems with time management/the 2-minute offense. Still major problems utilizing other parts of a pro offense--where the eff are the simple crossing routes? Still major problems with adjusting the offense once teams have enough tape on you and adjust to you. I mean, sure, he's made incremental progress, but nowhere near enough. He doesn't get 8-10 years or however long to hone his craft. He's going into year 4. Those adjustments all need to have been done by now. If it were just one small area of concern, fine. There are still multiple large areas of concern, though. Couple him with Keim and a whiny KM, and this just feels like a mulligan year, and we don't get do-overs on those.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Still major problems with time management/the 2-minute offense. Still major problems utilizing other parts of a pro offense--where the eff are the simple crossing routes? Still major problems with adjusting the offense once teams have enough tape on you and adjust to you. I mean, sure, he's made incremental progress, but nowhere near enough. He doesn't get 8-10 years or however long to hone his craft. He's going into year 4. Those adjustments all need to have been done by now. If it were just one small area of concern, fine. There are still multiple large areas of concern, though. Couple him with Keim and a whiny KM, and this just feels like a mulligan year, and we don't get do-overs on those.

And if he makes the same leap as he did every other year....he'll win 14 games next year.

I see tons of open receivers all of the time. The QB needs to continue to grow.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Kingsbury extension bothers me several degrees of magnitude less than Keim.

From MB perspective- if he's going to lock up the coach (&QB?) - might as well lock up the GM too, because it would be tough to find a guy to come in and not he able to make the changes he wants.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Kingsbury extension bothers me several degrees of magnitude less than Keim.

From MB perspective- if he's going to lock up the coach (&QB?) - might as well lock up the GM too, because it would be tough to find a guy to come in and not he able to make the changes he wants.

I think with all things considered, this coming season should have been a last chance year for all.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Is this true or this this conjecture?

True or conjecture? You seriously need me to compare the records/performance of the 2020 and 2021 Cards in the first and second half of seasons? I don't know how anything could be more stark or obvious. We went from a team rolling the league, to one that couldn't beat the Lions!!!

Are you going to account for all of the injuries to KEY players? Naw that would take making a non-emotional argument.

Hmm, injuries to key players in the most dangerous league around, who could have seen it coming! Keim signed a bunch of old vets with injury histories, and has no depth because his drafting is the worst in league.

Using injuries as an excuse in the NFL is absurd. Every team has them, including the super bowl champs.

I have and it is concerning. The Cardinals have a QB who gets knicked up and then plays like crap at the end of every year.

So you're saying Kyler is why they're losing? Scheme and training have nothing to do with two straight collapses?

How would Stafford look without Kupp?

STAFFORD LOST ROBERT WOODS! Good teams have depth, and OBJ/Higbee/Jefferson were all better weapons than anyone we were running out there at WR/TE.

 

[Krangodnzr]

True or conjecture? You seriously need me to compare the records/performance of the 2020 and 2021 Cards in the first and second half of seasons? I don't know how anything could be more stark or obvious. We went from a team rolling the league, to one that couldn't beat the Lions!!!

A lot more to it than coaching. When I see a QB fail to execute over and over...

Hmm, injuries to key players in the most dangerous league around, who could have seen it coming! Keim signed a bunch of old vets with injury histories, and has no depth because his drafting is the worst in league.

Using injuries as an excuse in the NFL is absurd. Every team has them, including the super bowl champs.

Healthy teams win Lombardis. You dispute that? 2008 Cardinals were a very healthy team. It's been shown over and over again that overall team health is a huge factor in winning a championship.

So you're saying Kyler is why they're losing? Scheme and training have nothing to do with two straight collapses?

He's a big reason why the Cardinals sucked down the stretch, coupled with losing most of the OL at times, his top WR and other weapons too.

I know it's easier to get all angry than to look at the situation objectively.

STAFFORD LOST ROBERT WOODS! Good teams have depth, and OBJ/Higbee/Jefferson were all better weapons than anyone we were running out there at WR/TE.

Whoa there William Wallace. Robert Woods wasn't having a great season anyway by his standards and they brought in OBJ. I agree with criticism of Keim. And Ertz WAS better than Higbee, but that's not fitting your emotion laden argument LOL.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

And if he makes the same leap as he did every other year....he'll win 14 games next year.

Care to make a bet on whether or not that happens? I didn't think so. You know as well as I do that barring major changes, this team is in big trouble next year. We have the 2nd hardest schedule, the two teams in the super bowl last year were in our division, and outside of Kyler going super sayan, where are the improvements coming from? We have no money, and a GM that doesn't know how to use it anyway. Draft picks to save the day?

A lot more to it than coaching. When I see a QB fail to execute over and over...

You think Kyler's failure to grow doesn't fall at all on the coaching staff? Incredible.

Healthy teams win Lombardis. You dispute that? 2008 Cardinals were a very healthy team. It's been shown over and over again that overall team health is a huge factor in winning a championship.

Again, you keep talking about injuries, as if every team doesn't have them, and that we don't continue to rely on FA vets, who invariably are more injured.
When you're relying on guys like JJ Watt and Jordan Phillips as your premium FA signings, you're asking for trouble.

He's a big reason why the Cardinals sucked down the stretch, coupled with losing most of the OL at times, his top WR and other weapons too.

Ok, so everyone but the coaching staff?

I know it's easier to get all angry than to look at the situation objectively.

Some people are capable of doing both! You're grasping at straws to prop up a weak argument.

Whoa there William Wallace. Robert Woods wasn't having a great season anyway by his standards and they brought in OBJ.

Good teams lose good players and still win. Stop making excuses for failure.

 

[Broseph]

I've been a Cardinals fan since the early '90s, I am ready to walk away soon because of this insane move by Bidwill Jr. Keim will continue to draft poorly, and Kingsbury will continue to get out-coached. Wait till we throw $40 mil a year at KM.

 

[Stout]

And if he makes the same leap as he did every other year....he'll win 14 games next year.

I see tons of open receivers all of the time. The QB needs to continue to grow.

You know how disingenuous and completely unreliable your first sentence is.

The QB absolutely needs to grow and hit more open receivers. Crossing routes just don't seem to be in KK's play book, though, which is a massive red flag. The rest of the major problems remain and remain unaddressed. Unless KK makes major leaps and KM makes major attitude/approach adjustments, we're not sniffing 11 wins, let alone more.