Kliff comments on Murray

[BigRedRage]

The point being made is that the Cardinals don't think he's a leader, meaning they don't think he is the guy to lead their football team. Hence the interest in Kyler Murray, a guy known as a great leader every where he's been.

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[Jetstream Green]

Fitz likes everyone. Good friends with ****** Robert Sarver. His opinion on this topic means nothing.



The point being made is that the Cardinals don't think he's a leader, meaning they don't think he is the guy to lead their football team. Hence the interest in Kyler Murray, a guy known as a great leader every where he's been.

I kid about the guy's height because he really is a midget compared to the NFL players but there is nothing small about his arm strength. It's not just a good NFL arm, it's a missile launcher, but it's not a intercontinental ballistic missile like Mahomes. Rosen has a NFL arm. I really do not care about his height because this new NFL is the equivalent of flag football in relation to what other QBs once partook, and his height actually will make it next to impossible to tackling once he takes off with the new contact rules without drawing a penalty. I just have concerns about the unknown, that being his lack of working the interior of the field or showing he can a lead WR in stride. That's a instinctive trait with timing which I do not see in his highlights. Again, maybe he can and the offense does not require that aspect and maybe KK's will not but the NFL is so much faster that you almost have to have timing routes to a degree to get the jump on a defense... the leadership stuff, that is all hearsay unless some players come out of the woodwork for either of them and make it a question

 

[cardncubfan]

How many times do we have to hear that Rosen isn't well liked in the lockerroom until we believe it? Fitzgerald spoke highly of him, but he also talks up scrubs like William Powell.

I'm beginning to believe that the gamble isn't this year, that the gamble was last year, gambling on a QB that 6 QB needy teams passed on. His college coach avoided praising him in interviews. That's specifically relevant because college coaches have to walk that fine line between pissing off NFL teams (and hurting future prospects draft stock and thus hurting recruiting) or scaring off future recruits (because they saw head coach bash player and hurt his stock).

Link? I have heard this from anyone. Just the opposite actually.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So happy about this pro Murray squad

Leaded by @Krangthebrain @Chris_Sanders

And with the solid contribution of

@Crimson Warrior
@PACardsFan
@Vacard
@ARZCardinals

In honor of these discussions I have changed my avatar

 

[Jetstream Green]

A video showing the Murrayrites hard at work to prove their point with their special form of logic...

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[Delmar M Lewis]

No, Murray 'might' be much better than Rosen... but as a Rosen fan, all my stupid midget jokes aside, I am not ignorant acknowledging possibilities (no matter how slight) that Murray might be one of those once in a lifetime proverbial lighting bug in a bottle scenarios lol

And if he is not then it's by by to Keim and Klingsbury Nd back to square one with almost the Murray fanboys defending him just like the Rosen guys are this year does anyone really think Keim or any one else is going to risk their entire career on a less than perfect QB prospect with the first #1 pick for the Cards since 1958

 

[Krangodnzr]

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Yeah ok bud. Ignore all of the comments about Rosen being a douche going back a long time.

And today two separate media sources say they heard Cardinals employees say that Josh isnt a good guy in the locker room. That's not grasping at straws, that's listening to informed opinions.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Link? I have heard this from anyone. Just the opposite actually.

Go listen to Zierlein on Doug and Wolf today and MMQB podcast from yesterday.

Both cited that the Cardinals arent too keen on Josh as a leader.

The Prosens just ignore facts and reasoning, so obviously this will be ignored per usual.

FACT Josh Rosen was one of the lowest rated QBs over the past 20 years in almost every statistic possible.

FACT numerous sources have stated that Josh is not a good leader.

FACT every Cardinals related picture was removed from his Instagram. He was "hacked" but curiously only Cardinals pictures were removed.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I just watched highlights of Murray.

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Pretty impressive. However in 90% of the highlights he had a ton of time to throw and his guys were often wide open by 10 yards.



Then I watched the highlights of Murray from the Orange Bowl again:

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This was closer to what Murray would face every day in the NFL. He was not as impressive when he constantly had people in his face and his WRs were actually covered.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Yeah ok bud. Ignore all of the comments about Rosen being a douche going back a long time.

And today two separate media sources say they heard Cardinals employees say that Josh isnt a good guy in the locker room. That's not grasping at straws, that's listening to informed opinions.

No. It's listening to gossip that serves your agenda.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Go listen to Zierlein on Doug and Wolf today and MMQB podcast from yesterday.

Both cited that the Cardinals arent too keen on Josh as a leader.

The Prosens just ignore facts and reasoning, so obviously this will be ignored per usual.

FACT Josh Rosen was one of the lowest rated QBs over the past 20 years in almost every statistic possible.

FACT numerous sources have stated that Josh is not a good leader.

FACT every Cardinals related picture was removed from his Instagram. He was "hacked" but curiously only Cardinals pictures were removed.

FACT a hack of his account by a dastardly, cunningly devious follower of the Cult of Little People. A friend of a friend of a friend told me; an unimpeachable source, but of course, you'll just ignore these obvious facts and sound reasoning.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I just watched highlights of Murray.

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Pretty impressive. However in 90% of the highlights he had a ton of time to throw and his guys were often wide open by 10 yards.



Then I watched the highlights of Murray from the Orange Bowl again:

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This was closer to what Murray would face every day in the NFL. He was not as impressive when he constantly had people in his face and his WRs were actually covered.

That's fair MadCard. AL was the best defense Murray faced all year.

But Murray had zero turnovers, 450 yards of offense, and a 139.0 QB rating for that game. All of that with basically one above average WR target (Hollywood Brown of course had the lis franc injury) Are you saying that if an NFL QB posts those numbers in a game, that.. it's not good enough?

If Murray "struggles" his way to a 139.0 rating in our games, I think we'll take it.. right?

 

[Solar7]

Yeah ok bud. Ignore all of the comments about Rosen being a douche going back a long time.

And today two separate media sources say they heard Cardinals employees say that Josh isnt a good guy in the locker room. That's not grasping at straws, that's listening to informed opinions.

Honestly, how hard is it for you to think that saying anything bad about Murray doesn't mean we necessarily are in love with Rosen?

Plenty of people have brought up the election, but at the end of the day it's kinda the same argument. Just because I don't like the status quo doesn't mean I want to burn the whole thing down with someone I think is going to be just as bad or worse.

(Not that I think Murray is as bad as the person I'm referencing in my political views, just that I don't think he's a fix, and hitching our wagon to him is going to get us nowhere productive.)

 

[dscher]

FACT a hack of his account by a dastardly, cunningly devious follower of the Cult of Little People. A friend of a friend of a friend told me; an unimpeachable source, but of course, you'll just ignore these obvious facts and sound reasoning.

This all got weird..

 

[Krangodnzr]

10

Honestly, how hard is it for you to think that saying anything bad about Murray doesn't mean we necessarily are in love with Rosen?

Plenty of people have brought up the election, but at the end of the day it's kinda the same argument. Just because I don't like the status quo doesn't mean I want to burn the whole thing down with someone I think is going to be just as bad or worse.

(Not that I think Murray is as bad as the person I'm referencing in my political views, just that I don't think he's a fix, and hitching our wagon to him is going to get us nowhere productive.)

What does this have to do with my comments on Josh Rosen?

A poster is refuting the concept that Rosen might be bad in the locker room. It's a common complaint against Rosen and MIGHT just be one of the reasons the Cardinals are probably moving on.

 

[Krangodnzr]

FACT a hack of his account by a dastardly, cunningly devious follower of the Cult of Little People. A friend of a friend of a friend told me; an unimpeachable source, but of course, you'll just ignore these obvious facts and sound reasoning.

I'm blocking you.

You are just being a giant douche canoe.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I just watched highlights of Murray.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Pretty impressive. However in 90% of the highlights he had a ton of time to throw and his guys were often wide open by 10 yards.



Then I watched the highlights of Murray from the Orange Bowl again:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This was closer to what Murray would face every day in the NFL. He was not as impressive when he constantly had people in his face and his WRs were actually covered.

Murrays worst game is close to Rosens career average QB Rating wise FYI.

 

[Solar7]

10


What does this have to do with my comments on Josh Rosen?

A poster is refuting the concept that Rosen might be bad in the locker room. It's a common complaint against Rosen and MIGHT just be one of the reasons the Cardinals are probably moving on.

Well, it's an exchange, and I'll be honest, you again handwaved away that Fitz publicly supported him.

I'm just saying that the argument is once again kinda falling on your side into Rosen vs. Murray, wherein Murray is supposedly an amazing leader, and because not everyone jives with Rosen's personality, it must mean he's destined to impossibly fail.

It's the continued argument of "Murray is perfect at everything," "Rosen is terrible in all aspects of everything" thrown at us by the Kyler Krowd.

Unwavering faith in Josh Rosen to be the answer to all things isn't leading the charge here for most of the "pro-Rosen" folks, it's a complete lack of faith that Murray represents any real upgrade.

In one year I see us saying "hoo boy, we were aggressive!" while picking in the top five again.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Well, it's an exchange, and I'll be honest, you again handwaved away that Fitz publicly supported him.

I'm just saying that the argument is once again kinda falling on your side into Rosen vs. Murray, wherein Murray is supposedly an amazing leader, and because not everyone jives with Rosen's personality, it must mean he's destined to impossibly fail.

It's the continued argument of "Murray is perfect at everything," "Rosen is terrible in all aspects of everything" thrown at us by the Kyler Krowd.

Unwavering faith in Josh Rosen to be the answer to all things isn't leading the charge here for most of the "pro-Rosen" folks, it's a complete lack of faith that Murray represents any real upgrade.

In one year I see us saying "hoo boy, we were aggressive!" while picking in the top five again.

You are putting words in my mouth here.

The point of my comments is to suggest that Rosens lack of leadership traits might be one of the reasons the Cardinals are moving on.

The way the sports media works is that people leak info....I think based on the fact that two separate media outlets are leaking those comments in a two day stretch points to that.

The Cardinals cant publicly state this, so an intermediary is saying it. They have to create the narrative for why they are moving on to not look as stupid.

 

[Solar7]

You are putting words in my mouth here.

The point of my comments is to suggest that Rosens lack of leadership traits might be one of the reasons the Cardinals are moving on.

The way the sports media works is that people leak info....I think based on the fact that two separate media outlets are leaking those comments in a two day stretch points to that.

The Cardinals cant publicly state this, so an intermediary is saying it. They have to create the narrative for why they are moving on to not look as stupid.

Right on, I'll take that.

It's purely personal opinion on my part that Rosen's being criticized by a generation who doesn't understand people in his generation, which would be ironic in a world where we just hired a coach to deploy a football concept to defy NFL convention. I think the leadership will come... or will come when we surround him with like-minded talent and coaching.

In Murray I see the worst quality of leader - one who is disengaged. Some think Rosen's entitled because he's smug and came from a well-off upbringing, I see Murray as entitled because he knows he can bail at any time and someone's still going to drool over that athleticism.

At the end of the day, I'm just hoping this is all a smokescreen, but I've pretty much started to resign myself to Murray being the QB. This is going to be one of the first players in a long time though that needs to prove me wrong, and I start out negative about.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Right on, I'll take that.

It's purely personal opinion on my part that Rosen's being criticized by a generation who doesn't understand people in his generation, which would be ironic in a world where we just hired a coach to deploy a football concept to defy NFL convention. I think the leadership will come... or will come when we surround him with like-minded talent and coaching.

In Murray I see the worst quality of leader - one who is disengaged. Some think Rosen's entitled because he's smug and came from a well-off upbringing, I see Murray as entitled because he knows he can bail at any time and someone's still going to drool over that athleticism.

At the end of the day, I'm just hoping this is all a smokescreen, but I've pretty much started to resign myself to Murray being the QB. This is going to be one of the first players in a long time though that needs to prove me wrong, and I start out negative about.

But no one who KNOWS Murray is saying this.

Uniformly, everyone says hes quiet and a nice kid.

Gil Brandt says hes an amazing kid. Teammates. Coaches. Everyone. You as a person who has never spoken to him thinks "he is entitled". Have you ever heard any or even whispers, that he is this way? No you havent.

Cleveland flat out passed on Rosen because of character.

 

[daves]

The Cardinals cant publicly state this, so an intermediary is saying it. They have to create the narrative for why they are moving on to not look as stupid.

In this scenario, wouldn't it behoove the Cardinals to wait until AFTER they trade Rosen to "leak" this story?

...dbs

 

[Krangodnzr]

In this scenario, wouldn't it behoove the Cardinals to wait until AFTER they trade Rosen to "leak" this story?

...dbs

Teams will get this info. Fired coaches, scouts talk, players talk.

 

[GuernseyCard]

10


What does this have to do with my comments on Josh Rosen?

A poster is refuting the concept that Rosen might be bad in the locker room. It's a common complaint against Rosen and MIGHT just be one of the reasons the Cardinals are probably moving on.

Complaint?

More like a rumour that you're happy to pass on.

You went so far as to call him a douche.

How could you possibly be in a position to assert that?

 

[GuernseyCard]

In this scenario, wouldn't it behoove the Cardinals to wait until AFTER they trade Rosen to "leak" this story?

...dbs

Stop it.

Your screwing up his impeccably sourced narrative: Rosen Bad Guy - KM Paragon of virtue.