Kolb is shot already

[CardsFan88]

Our tackles suck so bad, they'd win a competition about that against hookers...umm hands down.

We are risking having one shot QB right now. I'd rather not have three shot QB's, because they too will have to play behind our Community College Reserve Tackles.

This is not an endorsement of Kolb, it's just a realization that when the pressure is behind our QB before he even finishes dropping back (or close to that) on a consistent basis, no QB will do well.

We need to use 6 oline, and deal with whatever that takes away from our offense the rest of the season. Hell I'd try even 7 if need be....and a rb to chip. I'd rather have a qb have a chance to throw to two receivers, than not have a chance to even drop back but have more receivers.

We simply do not have a line to be able to drop back and pass with 5 olinemen this year. That's simply a fact.

The only real judgement we can make about Kolb, is that he absolutely sucks behind a line with the worst tackles of at least this century. You can't gleam too much from that, or else you risk shooting yourself in the foot because of putting the emotion colored lenses on. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, insert ANY QB in here, would suck behind a line with our tackles. Mike Vick would have to run 70 percent of the time behind our line. Our tackles suck that bad.

Our GM at the very least, and perhaps our coaches as well, deserve the blame for not recognizing this fact. I'm not for shell shocking another QB, and I think Kolb has a toughness to keep sticking his nose in there. But I'd rather not risk Rosenbach'ing him. I sure wouldn't want to expose Skelton or Bartel to it as well.

We must consistently use 6 ol, or else we risk everything snowballing out of control, if it hasn't already started that snowball down the mountain already. I did not like the trade for Kolb, but the problem with our QB play, goes WAY BEYOND the QB himself. To ignore this obvious fact, would be to act as stupid as Graves to put the Cards in such sorry tackle personnel position. If we don't confront the real issue, I'm sure Graves will just allow us all to blame Kolb, we risk him doing nothing or very little to address it in the offseason, and then where will we be? It's not Kolb, it's our tackles.

Solve our tackle play, and THEN we can see what Kolb has. He may still turn out to be mediocre, or maybe even just decent but can't take us to the promised land. But right now, he doesn't even have a chance. He should have happy feet with our tackles. It's entirely legitimate to have them with those bums. It only appears he has no pocket presence, because the national idiots that write that drivel, haven't yet noticed our how consistently bad our tackle play is. His happy feet IS the presence, because quite rightly so, he has reason to think that way FIRST, and then look to throw downfield, because THAT is the position he or ANY QB the cards throw back there will be in. When he doesn't have happy feet, when he allows himself to TRY to be a normal QB, who has more than 2.0 seconds to throw, that's when he gets hit. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. It's hard for even NFL QB's to hit wide open receivers when it's the 1 in 20 plays that allows him to do so. When the pressure is on him so much, when suddenly a play goes better, and he has a shot, it's like being 'too open' and missing a shot in basketball. Sadly he only gets one or two opportunities within the scope of the game, to even give him a shot. He misses those, and that's it.

As for looking off a receiver, he has no time. That's something I'm sure he'd do less of, if he had any confidence in the line. He doesn't, and he shouldn't. It makes him look worse, but that's the position the line is putting him in.

I didn't like the trade, and still don't. But I won't blame the guy for the bigger problems going on around him. It would be unfair, and counterproductive to do so. I never bought the hype in this guy. I just don't also buy all the blame he is getting either. All of his problems, can be fairly attributed to no time. Kurt had more time. Kurt also didn't have them teeing off on him. It was different for Kurt. The word is out about our OL, and the genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Kurt didn't have to deal with that. He also had better receivers. From what I'm seeing, the pressure is on Kolb within a second or so of the snap. Oh yes he has a little more time than that in total, but you know your guys are beat within a second or so of snap consistently. That is a totally different than what Kurt dealt with. It is also a whole lot more consistent. We also got to see today what we are missing in Boldin, and Warner even behind a shoddy line, which had better tackle play than this year, also had Boldin.

Kolb sucks behind this line and these tackles. I don't know besides 6 ol this season, and getting new ones in the offseason that can be done. Changing QB's will not yield better results, the tackles will still suck.

 

[Darkside]

I too am a part of the 1% and stand by it. Kolb and Warner are and were two completely different guys. Warner had been a winner and many thought he was past his prime. Kolb on the other hand is in what should be his prime and he still sucks. And Kolb was paid WINNER LEADERSHIP WINNER money Warner was not.

There's something to be said for the two experiences though. One dude growing up as a coaches son. Other dude with a wife and kid playing in the arena league, losing job, working out with teams, losing job, baggin groceries, getting job. Sh*t like that will make you find open receivers.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

So yes, you think you're a pro evaluator of NFL talent. You should get a job in the front office. Your whole post was what you saw and what you think and what you believe. Yes, you're one of those people alright. Doesn't matter what you saw, which is what I've been trying to tell you. There's much more talented dudes than you that have been wrong before, and after half a season I have no doubt you're wrong as well.

I shouldn't have to say it again, but I will, you've no clue what you're talking about.

And how does your posting make you any different? You have a different opinion, but one that is anymore provable or educated. Oh ahhh I get it you were the first to lower your standards to being condiscending so you win? Gotcha Pro Scout and talent evaluator! Thanks for showing us all up!

 

[Darkside]

Our tackles suck so bad, they'd win a competition about that against hookers...umm hands down.

We are risking having one shot QB right now. I'd rather not have three shot QB's, because they too will have to play behind our Community College Reserve Tackles.

This is not an endorsement of Kolb, it's just a realization that when the pressure is behind our QB before he even finishes dropping back (or close to that) on a consistent basis, no QB will do well.

We need to use 6 oline, and deal with whatever that takes away from our offense the rest of the season. Hell I'd try even 7 if need be....and a rb to chip. I'd rather have a qb have a chance to throw to two receivers, than not have a chance to even drop back but have more receivers.

We simply do not have a line to be able to drop back and pass with 5 olinemen this year. That's simply a fact.

The only real judgement we can make about Kolb, is that he absolutely sucks behind a line with the worst tackles of at least this century. You can't gleam too much from that, or else you risk shooting yourself in the foot because of putting the emotion colored lenses on. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, insert ANY QB in here, would suck behind a line with our tackles. Mike Vick would have to run 70 percent of the time behind our line. Our tackles suck that bad.

Our GM at the very least, and perhaps our coaches as well, deserve the blame for not recognizing this fact. I'm not for shell shocking another QB, and I think Kolb has a toughness to keep sticking his nose in there. But I'd rather not risk Rosenbach'ing him. I sure wouldn't want to expose Skelton or Bartel to it as well.

We must consistently use 6 ol, or else we risk everything snowballing out of control, if it hasn't already started that snowball down the mountain already. I did not like the trade for Kolb, but the problem with our QB play, goes WAY BEYOND the QB himself. To ignore this obvious fact, would be to act as stupid as Graves to put the Cards in such sorry tackle personnel position. If we don't confront the real issue, I'm sure Graves will just allow us all to blame Kolb, we risk him doing nothing or very little to address it in the offseason, and then where will we be? It's not Kolb, it's our tackles.

Solve our tackle play, and THEN we can see what Kolb has. He may still turn out to be mediocre, or maybe even just decent but can't take us to the promised land. But right now, he doesn't even have a chance. He should have happy feet with our tackles. It's entirely legitimate to have them with those bums. It only appears he has no pocket presence, because the national idiots that write that drivel, haven't yet noticed our how consistently bad our tackle play is. His happy feet IS the presence, because quite rightly so, he has reason to think that way FIRST, and then look to throw downfield, because THAT is the position he or ANY QB the cards throw back there will be in. When he doesn't have happy feet, when he allows himself to TRY to be a normal QB, who has more than 2.0 seconds to throw, that's when he gets hit. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I didn't like the trade, and still don't. But I won't blame the guy for the bigger problems going on around him. It would be unfair, and counterproductive to do so.

Look, I've said this before and will say it again, Kolb is the reason we're losign games, and it isn't the Oline's fault. Kolb himself said he's not used to the different drops: 3 step, 5 step, 7 step, we use them all. He's not used to the progressions. Not used to all the hot reads. Not used to any of it.

That being said, we're so close to winning games that I'm not that pissed. Teams that are on the rise looks like we do right now, losing close games. Just takes a few adjustments and reps and we'll be good.

I really do think we'll be good. I believe.

 

[Phrazbit]

Look, I've said this before and will say it again, Kolb is the reason we're losign games, and it isn't the Oline's fault. Kolb himself said he's not used to the different drops: 3 step, 5 step, 7 step, we use them all. He's not used to the progressions. Not used to all the hot reads. Not used to any of it.

That being said, we're so close to winning games that I'm not that pissed. Teams that are on the rise looks like we do right now, losing close games. Just takes a few adjustments and reps and we'll be good.

I really do think we'll be good. I believe.

The only reason we were close today was because of the defense. If not being handed the ball inside the 20 twice and for a special teams TD, the offenses effort by itself would have earned us a 6-30 defeat.

 

[Darkside]

And how does your posting make you any different? You have a different opinion, but one that is anymore provable or educated. Oh ahhh I get it you were the first to lower your standards to being condiscending so you win? Gotcha Pro Scout and talent evaluator! Thanks for showing us all up!

I realize you want to make a point, but you or anyone can look up my posts and see where I stand. You are correct though, opinions are opinions and yours isn't any more or less valid than anyone's. I agree with that.

And I wasn't being condescending, and I haven't lowered my standards, I've been a Cardinal fan forever, my standards are pretty much adequate to the given situation. We suck, something I've said, Kolb is the reason we've lost games, something else I've said, and we've lost more games by 7 or less than any team in football, something else I've said. We just need to stay patient and develop whatever talent we have this year and work on next year. By no means is Kolb a bust at this point. And that will be a continuing point of your ignorance. I will continue to say that. It's idiotic.

 

[Darkside]

The only reason we were close today was because of the defense. If not being handed the ball inside the 20 twice and for a special teams TD, the offenses effort by itself would have earned us a 6-30 defeat.

Totally agree. I've said that in other threads and even in this thread. I think one positive we can take from this game is that Scho and Acho played awesome. They both had a sack, and if I'm not mistaken, they may both have had a fumble as well. I know Scho did.

 

[Phrazbit]

I realize you want to make a point, but you or anyone can look up my posts and see where I stand. You are correct though, opinions are opinions and yours isn't any more or less valid than anyone's. I agree with that.

And I wasn't being condescending, and I haven't lowered my standards, I've been a Cardinal fan forever, my standards are pretty much adequate to the given situation. We suck, something I've said, Kolb is the reason we've lost games, something else I've said, and we've lost more games by 7 or less than any team in football, something else I've said. We just need to stay patient and develop whatever talent we have this year and work on next year. By no means is Kolb a bust at this point. And that will be a continuing point of your ignorance. I will continue to say that. It's idiotic.

Unless your stance is that Kolb was a bust before the trade was ever executed it and his play up to this point has only cemented how awful Kolb CLEARLY is.

The burden of proof at this point is to explain why Kolb is even remotely qualified to be an NFL starter. Because he clearly shouldnt be. It doesnt take an NFL scout to watch this guy and see that he does absolutely nothing well.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Any of you saying Kolb sucks don't have a clue. I'll try to address you all at once, since there seem to be a lot of you. You don't know what you're talking about. The dude hasn't even played a full season for us. We're losing games by minimal points. All it takes is some cohesion on the offensive line and some more familiarity with the plays and his offensive line, before Kolb starts making the easy plays that are out there. Ditching a QB this early is just asinine. Teams have done it and have paid the price. We paid big money, let's see what he has. You certainly don't give up those Benjamins without even finding out, which is what you guys want to do.

With good QB play we'd be wining those games. Look, I was in favor of acquiring Kolb as much as anyone, but he's not shown anything. Watch some games with good QB's like Ben, Brady, Rodgers. I know those are the elite but they all have pocket presence. If they get sacked, so be it. Kolb looks to scramble if the 1st read isn't open. That's David Carr like.

 

[Darkside]

Unless your stance is that Kolb was a bust before the trade was ever executed it and his play up to this point has only cemented how awful Kolb CLEARLY is.

The burden of proof at this point is to explain why Kolb is even remotely qualified to be an NFL starter. Because he clearly shouldnt be. It doesnt take an NFL scout to watch this guy and see that he does absolutely nothing well.

And, quite frankly, you continue to show your ignorance. It's been 7 games, with no preseason, no offseason, no nothing. Don't know how many times I have to say it. At this point, I feel like I'm being kind even responding to you because you obviously don't even comprehend the simple point that's being made.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

And, quite frankly, you continue to show your ignorance. It's been 7 games, with no preseason, no offseason, no nothing. Don't know how many times I have to say it. At this point, I feel like I'm being kind even responding to you because you obviously don't even comprehend the simple point that's being made.

I don't mean to jump into your guys argument buut Newton, Dalton, Ponder have all had minimal reps. Kolb is playing like Gabbert, Tebow, John Beck/Rex Grossman at this point.

 

[Phrazbit]

And, quite frankly, you continue to show your ignorance. It's been 7 games, with no preseason, no offseason, no nothing. Don't know how many times I have to say it. At this point, I feel like I'm being kind even responding to you because you obviously don't even comprehend the simple point that's being made.

I dont think you get the point. I dont care how many games its been. What talent does Kolb show? My stance if that Kolb has never been qualified to be a starter, he NEVER should have been put on this roster to begin with, he NEVER should have been given a chance because he lacks any discernible skill.

If you can name a SINGLE reason why faith should be put in Kolb besides "he needs more time" then I dont see how you are defeating my argument.

Kolb looks like the worst starter in the NFL and a lot of guys better than him are in the same boat about having a lack of reps.

 

[Darkside]

With good QB play we'd be wining those games. Look, I was in favor of acquiring Kolb as much as anyone, but he's not shown anything. Watch some games with good QB's like Ben, Brady, Rodgers. I know those are the elite but they all have pocket presence. If they get sacked, so be it. Kolb looks to scramble if the 1st read isn't open. That's David Carr like.

Totally agree with good QB we win those games. I brought up the example earlier in this thread of Steve Young and Doug Williams playing for Tampa, before they were considered good. Everyone hated them. But one major reason was that neither of them seemed to have any pocket awareness whatsoever. I used those examples for a reason. I know how sh*t looks. But we aren't qualified to evaluate talent. Kolb does have qualities. He has more qualities than either of them showed in Tampa. All I'm saying is we don't know what a player has. If you're asking me what his great move is, what he's great at, I don't know. But I know we're losing by a small margin, a very small margin. Even if Kolb can just improve to average, we will win games.

 

[Darkside]

I don't mean to jump into your guys argument buut Newton, Dalton, Ponder have all had minimal reps. Kolb is playing like Gabbert, Tebow, John Beck/Rex Grossman at this point.

I don't even think he's playing as well as them. I could be wrong, have to look up the stats. He's not playing well, and frankly just to be in the conversations with those QB's tells you how he's playing.

 

[Darkside]

I dont think you get the point. I dont care how many games its been. What talent does Kolb show? My stance if that Kolb has never been qualified to be a starter, he NEVER should have been put on this roster to begin with, he NEVER should have been given a chance because he lacks any discernible skill.

If you can name a SINGLE reason why faith should be put in Kolb besides "he needs more time" then I dont see how you are defeating my argument.

Kolb looks like the worst starter in the NFL and a lot of guys better than him are in the same boat about having a lack of reps.

I seem to be answering your questions all over this thread, but you don't comprehend them, or just want to continue spewing nonsense.

 

[Phrazbit]

I seem to be answering your questions all over this thread, but you don't comprehend them, or just want to continue spewing nonsense.

When have you named a discernible skill that Kolb possesses?

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

And, quite frankly, you continue to show your ignorance. It's been 7 games, with no preseason, no offseason, no nothing. Don't know how many times I have to say it. At this point, I feel like I'm being kind even responding to you because you obviously don't even comprehend the simple point that's being made.

Tell that to Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder, etc...He's been in the league for 5 years, and his career stats are extremely identical to this season's stats. He's been in the league long enough, and has all the time in the world to perfect his craft, but he literally has never shown any signs of improvement. All of these rookies are showing promising progression, but Kolb is what he is, a glorified back-up who had his shot, and failed miserably. Kolb was a gift in disguise, he will get Graves and Whisenhunt fired, and this team can finally rebuild with a competent front office and coaching staff.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Tell that to Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder, etc...He's been in the league for 5 years, and his career stats are extremely identical to this season's stats. He's been in the league long enough, and has all the time in the world to perfect his craft, but he literally has never shown any signs of improvement. All of these rookies are showing promising progression, but Kolb is what he is, a glorified back-up who had his shot, and failed miserably. Kolb was a gift in disguise, he will get Graves and Whisenhunt fired, and this team can finally rebuild with a competent front office and coaching staff.

You are giving the Bidwill's too much credit here.

 

[DeAnna]

I'm not that worried about Kolb's play, because despite his #'s, I think he showed improvement. He stepped up in the pocket more than in games past (though he still backpeddled too much). He also released the ball faster than normal, notwithstanding his hot-route receivers doing nothing and getting him sacked every single time. I just got the impression he understood the gameplan more than before. His receivers let him down in several instances, and if it wasn't the receivers it was his offensive line. Overall it was pathetic statistically, but encouraging overall if you ask me.

I kinda agree with this - he needs more time in this offense. Isn't the QB the one who makes all the line calls in this offense? Obviously somethng is amiss with the protections schemes.

Also, they should just bench skillet-hands aka #12. Can't catch anything.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

then the trade was worth it.

 

[DeAnna]

Tell that to Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder, etc...He's been in the league for 5 years, and his career stats are extremely identical to this season's stats. He's been in the league long enough, and has all the time in the world to perfect his craft, but he literally has never shown any signs of improvement. All of these rookies are showing promising progression, but Kolb is what he is, a glorified back-up who had his shot, and failed miserably. Kolb was a gift in disguise, he will get Graves and Whisenhunt fired, and this team can finally rebuild with a competent front office and coaching staff.

If you've heard or ready any of Whisenhunt's comments, by his own admission they are throwing a lot at him to digest in his complex offense. Those rookies have a very watered down playbook and simplistic play calling.

 

[Zeno]

Totally agree with good QB we win those games. I brought up the example earlier in this thread of Steve Young and Doug Williams playing for Tampa, before they were considered good. Everyone hated them. But one major reason was that neither of them seemed to have any pocket awareness whatsoever. I used those examples for a reason. I know how sh*t looks. But we aren't qualified to evaluate talent. Kolb does have qualities. He has more qualities than either of them showed in Tampa. All I'm saying is we don't know what a player has. If you're asking me what his great move is, what he's great at, I don't know. But I know we're losing by a small margin, a very small margin. Even if Kolb can just improve to average, we will win games.

You keep bringing up Doug Williams...he was never really good, he put a good stretch during the playoffs but that was it, he never had a winning record with the Redskins and he never completed more than 56% of his passes. Williams was replacing an injured QB if I remember right. If that is what we have to look forward to with Kolb thats not exactly awe inspiring.

 

[Darkside]

Tell that to Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder, etc...He's been in the league for 5 years, and his career stats are extremely identical to this season's stats. He's been in the league long enough, and has all the time in the world to perfect his craft, but he literally has never shown any signs of improvement. All of these rookies are showing promising progression, but Kolb is what he is, a glorified back-up who had his shot, and failed miserably. Kolb was a gift in disguise, he will get Graves and Whisenhunt fired, and this team can finally rebuild with a competent front office and coaching staff.

Agreed, to some extent. But Cam Newton, well, first of all, has played extremely well, but aside from that, he's on a team with a great running offensive line and backs. They don't have a complicated passing game, and they never have. Andy Dalton and Ponder are in the same situation, they don't inherit an aggressive, complicated passing attack. Look, you all talk crap, but none of us know what the f*ck we're talking about. That being said, I do know comparing those QB's and their schemes to ours is ridiculous. Kolb has a lot more to learn and digest than those other QB's by far. They aren't even the same systems. As Deion would say, Child Please!!

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

You are giving the Bidwill's too much credit here.

This is true, expecting the Bidwill's to make a logical decision is hard to fathom. They got what they wanted, however, they suckered the entire community into building them a new stadium, only to get the exact same results. So, in a sense, they are semi-decent businessmen, just not when it comes to fielding a football team

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Agreed, to some extent. But Cam Newton, well, first of all, has played extremely well, but aside from that, he's on a team with a great running offensive line and backs. They don't have a complicated passing game, and they never have. Andy Dalton and Ponder are in the same situation, they don't inherit an aggressive, complicated passing attack. Look, you all talk crap, but none of us know what the f*ck we're talking about. That being said, I do know comparing those QB's and their schemes to ours is ridiculous. Kolb has a lot more to learn and digest than those other QB's by far. They aren't even the same systems. As Deion would say, Child Please!!

That's all based on coaching, obviously the Cardinals coaching staff is putting him in a position to fail if he can't grasp the offense. Good coaches put their players in positions to succeed, and if it isn't working, they change schemes, formations, what have you, to accomodate the players skill sets. Whisenhunt's excuse that the offense is 'complex' is just another scapegoat of his to buy more time, and it's a very easy argument to make that Whisenhunt has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. When 5/6 QB's he's had here have all had the same issues, it's the coaching that is the common denominator. Again, even with the different offenses, Kolb has the exact same stats here as he did in Philly, so aside from Whisenhunt's inability to coach, Kolb just isn't that good in general.