Kolb is shot already

Goldfield

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I desperately want to see something in this guy but I just don't. I know our OL is poor at pass blocking but when I watch Kolb I do not see a leader or a winner.

Hope I am wrong.
I dont see a winner. I dont see any toughness at all. They guy avoids contact at all costs. I also dont think he can read the D.

I am glad the Cardinals made a huge attempt to fix the QB position. But hte needed to add a LT to make it worth wile.
 

CardsFan88

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Look, I've said this before and will say it again, Kolb is the reason we're losign games, and it isn't the Oline's fault. Kolb himself said he's not used to the different drops: 3 step, 5 step, 7 step, we use them all. He's not used to the progressions. Not used to all the hot reads. Not used to any of it.

That being said, we're so close to winning games that I'm not that pissed. Teams that are on the rise looks like we do right now, losing close games. Just takes a few adjustments and reps and we'll be good.

I really do think we'll be good. I believe.

Hey I understand it appears that way, because Kolb has the ball and the outcome is the result of what eventually happens in terms of the ball coming out of his hands, but it's gotten to the point where both the ol and the qb are working against each other.

I don't blame Kolb because he's consistently under pressure. (of course I also blame Kolb because he hasn't found a way to overcome it, and that's his job as QB..to move the offense). He has happy feet for a reason. He was known to have happy feet when pressured, and when we acquired him, we put him behind a line with the worst tackles this century in the NFL (at least pass blocking wise). Any QB legitimately SHOULD have happy feet behind this line and this tackle play.

He's runs around sometimes and puts the ol in a bad position. But that is a product of the majority of the rest of the time the ol puts him in a bad position. It should be in his head. This is what an offensive line snowballing into hell looks like. Nothing works, everything goes bad. But it all starts from the fact that even if Kolb did not have happy feet, our tackles would be getting him killed. He does try to sometimes NOT have happy feet, and we've seen many of his INT's and fumbles come from him trying to do that on the rare occasion he tries that. Had he tried that more, there would have been probably twice the turnovers out of his hands. Of course it's hurt him too with some sacks, a crucial safety, so on and so forth. But overall his happy feet are probably a net positive, given he's still upright (although I see something about turf toe but haven't read it).

I also understand that it's a different system, and he's having some trouble with it. But the trouble really lies in the pressure he's facing and all the while being asked to do these different things is only making it worse (but maybe an extra bit of suckiness after a whole lot caused by the core issue of protection). He looks like he's getting better at some of these things, but again when you get back to basics, our tackles just can't block. Everything bad then starts to creep in.

Even a QB like Kurt, while I'm sure would be a little better at it, would not be much better. There were times when Kurt faced a lot of pressure and had some really bad games. When the protection was decent, and on some occasions where he noticed a breakdown here or there he did great things. Well Kolb is feeling that sort of pressure basically every time he drops back in most games. The worst line play that Kurt had some games, is what Kolb has basically every game, and even more so in terms of consistently bad in that it isn't some times during the game, it's basically the whole game or the majority of it.

Because it's the tackles, much of Kolb's problems lie in the fact that the defense is coming from behind him when it breaks down. Kurt felt pressure from all over, which meant even during a break down, there were more times Kurt saw it because it was coming at him. For Kolb it's almost always behind him. Which leads to happy feet and turning around weird like we've seen. I think it's horribly natural that he does that, and not to be unexpected. I'd rather see that then the alternative if he didn't. Sometimes because it is so often, he thinks he feels it. That wouldn't be there, if the oline and specifically tackles, hadn't put that idea in there by consistently sucking.

Because Kolb isn't a veteran, and isn't used to the scheme like Kurt was, make Kolb less effective in those areas then he would be if he had those aspects down like Kurt had. But overall it's the line play, the tackles, that are putting Kolb in this position. They are playing much worse than the line played for Kurt, and Kolb doesn't have Boldin (or Breaston) to bail him out...he has Andre Roberts. Hell on occasion Kurt even had Doucet.

The point I'm trying to make is, people are stating it's the progressions, it's the unfamiliarity with the system, the happy feet, it's Kolb's talent level that's causing all of this. I'm saying it's very obvious while that all of those things are having an impact, the MAIN thing is the tackle play, which is causing all of these other things to sprout up where they normally wouldn't, or making an occasional problem turn into a real problem. They also happen AFTER all these other plays are messed up by the tackles, and thus the margin for error is slim and those plays carry greater negative weight because so much are riding on them.

...and conversely...even if he wasn't locking onto a receiver, even if he stayed in the pocket more...even if he was used to the system....our tackle play would still be getting him smacked around like Glass Joe on Punchout. The inability to consistently have a passing offense isn't because of the deficiencies of Kolb, it's the deficiencies of the tackle play and when combined with the snowballing that naturally occurs with any QB behind that sort of poor line play results in a 1-6 start. (and combined with our defense ofc)

In reality Kurt was amongst the best in dealing with tackle and other line deficiencies as because he could get rid of the ball quick. But even he had his bad moments when the line was ultra poor, and the ultra poor line play on those days, is what Kolb endures on basically every play, or most plays. If Warner was still on this team, we'd be calling for a change right now, because even he would not be able to turn in a consistent performance with this piss poor tackle play. Kurt would probably be well over 10 int's, and probably have more fumbles.

I know we've been close, so perhaps that would make the difference in one or two of those games. But with more balls out, Kurt would have thrown more interceptions, and thus I don't know if those games would have been close. So it's entirely subjective to say Kurt would have won more games given how close they were with Kolb playing QB given that they would have been different games and naturally played out differently.

We have a lot of talent on this team. We just have some equally big holes at certain positions on this team. The tackle play sucks, and sucks in a way, that statistics won't show an accurate comparison, because statistics don't tell a truth, they tell a generalization. The god of statistics does not come into play here in any meaningful way. You have to see it with your eyes and notice how off it is in order to understand how bad our tackle play is. You (in general) can't say Warner had more time than Kolb, because it's not true. Those statistics lie. Which is why statistics are a god that should not be prayed to, because they aren't real. It's not a physical property. They're subjective, in how they're set up, in what they include and don't, in the circumstances around them, and are only approximations.

In reality, within a second or so, Kolb has to have already made his read or that's it. Warner didn't have to do that. Asking a QB to go thru progressions under this scenario is basically impossible.

But what we need is better tackle play, because then and only then will Kolb (or Skelton or Bartel) shows us what he has or doesn't have. I'm not opposed to drafting Luck. But I know if we do, we better have at least three new tackles that are better than what we have on our roster or he'll suck.

I couldn't even imagine Hall behind this line. My god it would be brutal. Hell it already is brutal with Kolb behind it.

When there is a hole in the bottom of the boat, no matter how good the rest of the boat is constructed, none of it will look seaworthy.
 
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Duckjake

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Agreed, to some extent. But Cam Newton, well, first of all, has played extremely well, but aside from that, he's on a team with a great running offensive line and backs. They don't have a complicated passing game, and they never have. Andy Dalton and Ponder are in the same situation, they don't inherit an aggressive, complicated passing attack.

Well if Newton is throwing for 300yards and 3 TDs and rookie QBs are doing ok in a simple passing scheme yet Kolb is throwing for 150 yards and 1 TD and 6 of 7 QBs have failed to date in the Cards aggressive, complicated passing game that hasn't worked in a season and a half what the heck are they doing still running it????????????

Those jokers at Laurel and Hardy knew they would suck with Kolb this year didn't they? But coming out while ticket sales were underway and saying hey our team is going to suck at least until next year while our new QB learns our complicated offense wouldn't be the best marketing tool would it? Instead they made a big deal out of his signing and Fitz' extension to cover it up.

I'm suing the Cards for deceptive trade practices.
 

Russ Smith

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I seem to be answering your questions all over this thread, but you don't comprehend them, or just want to continue spewing nonsense.

ds you're arguing with someone who on the game thread blamed Kolb for the play where 2 TE's missed a block on Suggs, Kolb evaded the sack staggered forward and through the ball to Roberts who missed it and tipped it up so it was nearly picked.

His take was why throw the ball short, he looked scared, and the throw to Roberts was low and nearly picked.

Do yourself a favor and put him on ignore like I did, I took him off Friday, and put him back on today.

You guys are never going to agree because he will blame Kolb for everything. He has some legit points the problem is they get lost in all the over the top blaming of one guy.

I thought Kolb played better today the problem is when the Ravens turned up the heat he didn't respond.
 

Phrazbit

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ds you're arguing with someone who on the game thread blamed Kolb for the play where 2 TE's missed a block on Suggs, Kolb evaded the sack staggered forward and through the ball to Roberts who missed it and tipped it up so it was nearly picked.

His take was why throw the ball short, he looked scared, and the throw to Roberts was low and nearly picked.

Do yourself a favor and put him on ignore like I did, I took him off Friday, and put him back on today.

You guys are never going to agree because he will blame Kolb for everything. He has some legit points the problem is they get lost in all the over the top blaming of one guy.

I thought Kolb played better today the problem is when the Ravens turned up the heat he didn't respond.

Right... find that post for me. Because I didnt do it.

And I dont blame one guy, Roberts sucks, I called him and Kolb a lethal duo of alligator armed throws and drops, all on electric 2 yard pass attempts. The Oline isnt good but Kolb does nothing to help them or himself with his complete lack of awareness. I tore AJ Jefferson apart in several posts.

But this was a game that if we had gotten ANYTHING from our offense we would have won. Outside of being handed the ball inside the 20 our offense didnt do anything. How anyone could watch Kolb deliver bad pass after bad pass, make the same awful reads against the blitz, to claim he looked anything but horrible today is a joke.

You might claim I am triyng to blame Kolb for everything, if you look at my posts its not true. But to claim Kolb has been anything but a complete disaster is just lying to yourself.

There is no silver lining, Kolb is just a really really crappy QB.
 

PitchShifter

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I look at the first play today, and the poise shown by Skelton in the pocket last season, and despite both their the flaws, I know which player has shown more flashes to my eyes. If Skelton's not the answer, I'm not convinced that Kolb is either.
 

Russ Smith

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Right... find that post for me. Because I didnt do it.

And I dont blame one guy, Roberts sucks, I called him and Kolb a lethal duo of alligator armed throws and drops, all on electric 2 yard pass attempts. The Oline isnt good but Kolb does nothing to help them or himself with his complete lack of awareness. I tore AJ Jefferson apart in several posts.

But this was a game that if we had gotten ANYTHING from our offense we would have won. Outside of being handed the ball inside the 20 our offense didnt do anything. How anyone could watch Kolb deliver bad pass after bad pass, make the same awful reads against the blitz, to claim he looked anything but horrible today is a joke.

You might claim I am triyng to blame Kolb for everything, if you look at my posts its not true. But to claim Kolb has been anything but a complete disaster is just lying to yourself.

There is no silver lining, Kolb is just a really really crappy QB.

If you're going to deny things you actually posted I'll just have to put you back on ignore.

"It is HILARIOUS that people are blaming Roberts "drop" for ending that drive. Kolb throws a pass that his WR has to dive for and even IF he does catch it will place them 5 yards short of a 1st.

But yes, its the clearly the receivers fault he didnt make a diving catch and then miraculously get another 6 yards... by crawling, for the 1st."

"I think we need Benny Hill music playing during all of Kolb's drop backs"

"Nice 3rd down play... an alligator armed pass that even if the WR does make the diving catch is still 4 yards short of a 1st.

Awesome."


Admittedly it's impossible to know what play you were talking about other than the last 2 posts were immediately after that play and the first one was after I posted about what a crazy drive that was and someone else had just complained about all the balls Roberts drops.

I didn't include the one when you said Kolb was determined to give them the ball because it wasn't clear what play you were talking about the fumble he recovered or the INT where they held up the WR allowing Reed to get the pick which the refs called back. You complained about that one too even after the replay made it clear why the ball was nowhere near Roberts.

I think you make some good points about Kolb, they get lost in all the noise though at one point today you made 9 consecutive posts that were knocking Kevin including one that essentially said let's just hope Kolb doesn't blow this with a safety." that's why I put you back on ignore it's either that or stop reading the game thread every week.

I put 3 people on it during the last game because otherwise half the game thread is "Kolb sucks" no matter what.
 

Absolute Zero

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Here's how I break down the Kolb situation.

1. I was impressed watching Kolb play in Philly. He had time to throw.

2. Here, he is running for his life. Our O line sucks, flat out.

3. People aren't often open down field when the pressure comes. Teams are locking up Fitzgerald and our coaching staff has no answer. Fitz seems to be the only real threat. There's no one else to make teams pay when Fitz is doubled.

4. And Kolb is missing some plays obviously. I think the situation as a whole is getting to him.

And today, it was the men against boys. Suggs is playing on entirely different level than our O line. He ripped it up and was all over Kolb and coverage downfield was very tight.
 

Phrazbit

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If you're going to deny things you actually posted I'll just have to put you back on ignore.

"It is HILARIOUS that people are blaming Roberts "drop" for ending that drive. Kolb throws a pass that his WR has to dive for and even IF he does catch it will place them 5 yards short of a 1st.

But yes, its the clearly the receivers fault he didnt make a diving catch and then miraculously get another 6 yards... by crawling, for the 1st."

"I think we need Benny Hill music playing during all of Kolb's drop backs"

"Nice 3rd down play... an alligator armed pass that even if the WR does make the diving catch is still 4 yards short of a 1st.

Awesome."


Admittedly it's impossible to know what play you were talking about other than the last 2 posts were immediately after that play and the first one was after I posted about what a crazy drive that was and someone else had just complained about all the balls Roberts drops.

I didn't include the one when you said Kolb was determined to give them the ball because it wasn't clear what play you were talking about the fumble he recovered or the INT where they held up the WR allowing Reed to get the pick which the refs called back. You complained about that one too even after the replay made it clear why the ball was nowhere near Roberts.

I think you make some good points about Kolb, they get lost in all the noise though at one point today you made 9 consecutive posts that were knocking Kevin including one that essentially said let's just hope Kolb doesn't blow this with a safety." that's why I put you back on ignore it's either that or stop reading the game thread every week.

I put 3 people on it during the last game because otherwise half the game thread is "Kolb sucks" no matter what.

lol, NONE of those posts were attributed to the play you are trying to attach them to! The evaded sack was NOT a 3rd down! If you disagree with me fine, but dont lie about stuff I say in an effort to make yourself look better.

And there is a reason you keep reading posts from me an others that Kolb sucks. Its because he sucks.
 
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Dayman

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Kolb's pre-snap reads are highly questionable, which I believe is the reason Whis used for axing #7. That isn't a system problem. It's an awareness problem. One of many from our 27 year old QB. It isn't Kolb's fault that Whis continually uses our TEs on the other team's best rushers, but there are many other clear blitzes that he just doesn't seem to pick up.
 

Russ Smith

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lol, NONE of those posts were attributed to the play you are trying to attach them to! The evaded sack was NOT a 3rd down! If you disagree with me fine, but dont lie about stuff I say in an effort to make yourself look better.

And there is a reason you keep reading posts from me an others that Kolb sucks. Its because he sucks.

So the one where you specifically mention Roberts drop wasn't about the play by Roberts? It was right after that play and it's what everyone else was discussing on the game thread when you posted it.

I can believe 1 or 2 of those were about the one to Doucet, except nobody was blaming THAT incompletion on Andre Roberts.

Back on ignore.
 

Phrazbit

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So the one where you specifically mention Roberts drop wasn't about the play by Roberts? It was right after that play and it's what everyone else was discussing on the game thread when you posted it.

I can believe 1 or 2 of those were about the one to Doucet, except nobody was blaming THAT incompletion on Andre Roberts.

Back on ignore.

No, it WAS about a Roberts drop, just not the one where Kolb got away from Suggs because that was NOT on a 3rd down and the play where Roberts "ended the drive" was OBVIOUSLY on a 3rd down. As you noted, he dropped several balls, 2 on 3rd downs (actually it appears I credited one 3rd down drop to Roberts when it was Doucet who dove for a ball and dropped it), however both passes were thrown short of the 1st down. You can tell by both my posts that I was blatantly talking about a 3rd down play.

So, as I said, if you disagree, fine. But dont lie about my posts to try and make yourself feel better.
 
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AzStevenCal

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No, it WAS about a Roberts drop, just not the one where Kolb got away from Suggs because that was NOT on a 3rd down and the play where Roberts "ended the drive" was OBVIOUSLY on a 3rd down. As you noted, he dropped several balls, 2 on 3rd downs (actually it appears I credited one 3rd down drop to Roberts when it was Doucet who dove for a ball and dropped it), however both passes were thrown short of the 1st down. You can tell by both my posts that I was blatantly talking about a 3rd down play.

So, as I said, if you disagree, fine. But dont lie about my posts to try and make yourself feel better.

He's got over 30,000 posts and I've yet to see him lie about anything. It's interesting that it never crossed your mind that you are perhaps wrong or that he simply made a mistake - you simply call him a liar. Classy.

Steve
 

Phrazbit

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He's got over 30,000 posts and I've yet to see him lie about anything. It's interesting that it never crossed your mind that you are perhaps wrong or that he simply made a mistake - you simply call him a liar. Classy.

Steve

I am not claiming he is some terrible person, but he made up this fanciful scenario where I tore Kolb apart for a play where I clearly didnt. If he made a mistake, fine, but its blatantly obvious I was referring to a 3rd down play, and the play he is claiming I tore Kolb apart for came on a 2nd down. If he wants to keep claiming I said then when its obvious I didnt then a spade is a spade. Either way, I know exactly what I said and Im fine dropping the entire debate.

All that really matters is the impetus of the discussion: Kolb is a terrible, terrible QB, and you can quote me on that.
 

Evil Ash

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I am not claiming he is some terrible person, but he made up this fanciful scenario where I tore Kolb apart for a play where I clearly didnt. If he made a mistake, fine, but its blatantly obvious I was referring to a 3rd down play, and the play he is claiming I tore Kolb apart for came on a 2nd down. If he wants to keep claiming I said then when its obvious I didnt then a spade is a spade. Either way, I know exactly what I said and Im fine dropping the entire debate.

All that really matters is the impetus of the discussion: Kolb is a terrible, terrible QB, and you can quote me on that.

Of course we can because its the only thing you post about. Have you made a post regarding anything other than Kolb? This isn't a joke, this is a dead serious question.

You're on every bash Kolb thread and thats about it
 

Phrazbit

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Of course we can because its the only thing you post about. Have you made a post regarding anything other than Kolb? This isn't a joke, this is a dead serious question.

You're on every bash Kolb thread and thats about it


We can what?

And yes, Ive talked about stuff besides Kolb, its not hard to look up my posting history. I realize Ive posted about Kolb a lot but a ton of the discussion on this board has been about Kolb. If you want to actually debate Kolb's talents or lack there of, how awful AJ Jefferson is, how I think Peterson looks like a monster in the making, or any other part of the team, I am game.

But this does happen to be an entire thread about Kolb, so I wont apologize for discussing Kolb in it. If I start popping in other threads unrelated to him and ripping on Kolb outta no where, lemme know, and I will stop.

For what ever reason I asked a simple question "what discernible talent does Kolb show" and from there some posters got frustrated. Because sadly, Kolb has none.
 

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We can what?

Quote you on it. Seriously you should just put it in your sig and be done with it.

And yes, Ive talked about stuff besides Kolb, its not hard to look up my posting history. I realize Ive posted about Kolb a lot but a ton of the discussion on this board has been about Kolb. If you want to actually debate Kolb's talents or lack there of, how awful AJ Jefferson is, how I think Peterson looks like a monster in the making, or any other part of the team, I am game.

But this does happen to be an entire thread about Kolb, so I wont apologize for discussing Kolb in it. If I start popping in other threads unrelated to him and ripping on Kolb outta no where, lemme know, and I will stop.

For what ever reason I asked a simple question "what discernible talent does Kolb show" and from there some posters got frustrated. Because sadly, Kolb has none.

Then try to do it more often. At least 95% of your posts are about how Kolb sucks - there are many other things to talk about with this team than just that subject.

I don't like broken records. You've made your point - MOVE ON!!
 

82CardsGrad

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He completed 10 passes today. Yes, he was sacked 6 times... and YES, our o-line is beyond description in terms of their suckiness... However, he played a full game and completed 10 passes. Wow... :bang:
 

cardpa

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Put Kolb in a west coast offense and his performance will probably increase ten fold. This is the best fit for him. Of course he is trying to run the Whiz offense which is probably the only team in the NFL that runs this offense because no one would ever consider running what Whiz wants to run and Kolb absolutely sucks in it.

The Whiz offense must demand leaving the tackles on islands snap after snap. No other coach in the NFL would do that especially considering the ability of our tackles. You can blame Kolb all you want but he is yet just another player in a long line of players on this team that are put in a position to fail because the coach doesn't know how to put players in a position to succeed.
 

Mulli

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Put Kolb in a west coast offense and his performance will probably increase ten fold. This is the best fit for him. Of course he is trying to run the Whiz offense which is probably the only team in the NFL that runs this offense because no one would ever consider running what Whiz wants to run and Kolb absolutely sucks in it.

The Whiz offense must demand leaving the tackles on islands snap after snap. No other coach in the NFL would do that especially considering the ability of our tackles. You can blame Kolb all you want but he is yet just another player in a long line of players on this team that are put in a position to fail because the coach doesn't know how to put players in a position to succeed.

QB's have to step up in the pocket in the WC offense too.
 
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Cbus cardsfan

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The Whiz offense must demand leaving the tackles on islands snap after snap. No other coach in the NFL would do that especially considering the ability of our tackles. You can blame Kolb all you want but he is yet just another player in a long line of players on this team that are put in a position to fail because the coach doesn't know how to put players in a position to succeed.
In Whiz's defense you can't blame him for expecting a starting OT to at least slightly impede the DL's rush to the passer and not completely whiff like Levi and Keith did on occasion yesterday.
 

cardsfanmd

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Quote you on it. Seriously you should just put it in your sig and be done with it.



Then try to do it more often. At least 95% of your posts are about how Kolb sucks - there are many other things to talk about with this team than just that subject.

I don't like broken records. You've made your point - MOVE ON!!
this.
 

cardsfanmd

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Of course he is trying to run the Whiz offense which is probably the only team in the NFL that runs this offense because no one would ever consider running what Whiz wants to run and Kolb absolutely sucks in it.

The Whiz offense must demand leaving the tackles on islands snap after snap. No other coach in the NFL would do that especially considering the ability of our tackles. You can blame Kolb all you want but he is yet just another player in a long line of players on this team that are put in a position to fail because the coach doesn't know how to put players in a position to succeed.
Ignorance at it's finest.
 

Duckjake

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Ignorance at it's finest.

The Whisenhunt system has now produced 17 losses in the last 23 games. 5 different QBs have failed to average even a 60% completion rate. With a record like that he deserves to be criticized in just about any fashion. Sarcasm, Tirades, Exaggeration.....

Of course if you would like to enlighten us as to why the CKW system is so great we're all eyes.
 

blindseyed

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Of course Kolb is playing scared and has happy feet, you would too if you had .1 second before a 300lb beast is coming at you. Not only was he sacked he was hit something like 8 times, I defy any of you who are blaming all on Kolb to take that kind of beating and keep standing in the pocket. As far as "stepping up" in the pocket most times there is no pocket cuz our OL sucks. Kolb is doing a terrible job I see that but some of that is due to Levi being a turnstile
 

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