Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[kerouac9]

K1 is a great player surrounded by trash.

I won’t quibble w/r/t trash but citation needed on the first part.

I believe we were fun to watch for one year under Carson(2015) just as much we were fun to watch under Kyler(2021).

The second half of 2021 didn’t feel very fun to this fan.

Without K1 no one would be talking about the Cards at all.

No one is talking about the Cards anyway bro. Were on ESPN+ tonight with MX2 matches.

I just do not like this weird revisionist history about his tenure here & putting him in the same bucket as Warner when it came to dragging this pathetic franchise to heights we never seen before & acting like he was the only reason for it.

That man is in the Cards Ring of Honor, sir.

I don't believe Kyler is a great player or a bad player. The focus on him is comical though

He’s the quarterback; obviously this is going to happen. No one is going to point the finger at Trystan Colon.

 

[Chopper0080]

LMAO I am watching 12 news and they FINALLY called out Ossenfort for taking a blocking TE in the top 90 when they have no pass rush.

Here's the thing. Looking back at the draft right now, it wasn't the worst pick he made. The problem is his lack of adding FA talent highlights it.

 

[DVontel]

Here's the thing. Looking back at the draft right now, it wasn't the worst pick he made. The problem is his lack of adding FA talent highlights it.

It wasn’t even my least favorite pick in the 3rd round.

 

[WisconsinCard]

But he has had a winning season.

Riddle me this. Who is an NFL starter, that's not a rookie or filling in for injury that makes us worse?

My thoughts are
Danny dimes
Anthony Richardson
Will Levi's
Young/Dalton
Watson even tho he was injured yesterday


That's probably it for me unless I'm forgetting someone.

 

[SoonerLou]

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Thing about Kyler is if this were the NBA/MLB he'd probably be the biggest asset at the trade deadline. Steelers would be getting the best of Russ and Fields. Colts would stop screwing around with the development player and just get a a legit player. We'd probably get a haul for him even if he was just technically good.

Doesn't work that way in the NFL though. So we're hoping Kyler suddenly is able to uplift a roster in year 6.

 

[Chopper0080]

It wasn’t even my least favorite pick in the 3rd round.

Yeah.

Elijah Jones was the worst at the time and now. Just better options and it's an already young room.

Trey Benson looks the bad in hindsight due to the 6 RBs who are out-producing him and were drafted later.

Same with Isaiah Adams. Zak Zinter and Dom Puni were both drafted in the same round and are starting. It's early, but you would like to see your 3rd round OG be able to beat out Evan Brown and Trystan Colon.

I didn't hate the Melton pick, but it can be easily argued that staying put and taking a DL would have been better for the roster.

DTD looks fine, and everything after is whatever.

 

[DVontel]

Yeah.

Elijah Jones was the worst at the time and now. Just better options and it's an already young room.

Trey Benson looks the bad in hindsight due to the 6 RBs who are out-producing him and were drafted later.

Same with Isaiah Adams. Zak Zinter and Dom Puni were both drafted in the same round and are starting. It's early, but you would like to see your 3rd round OG be able to beat out Evan Brown and Trystan Colon.

I didn't hate the Melton pick, but it can be easily argued that staying put and taking a DL would have been better for the roster.

DTD looks fine, and everything after is whatever.

6 year player in college who doesn’t really offer a high ceiling at all.

I could at least be sold on the Benson & Adams picks.

 

[Mark22]

I mean, is he our best player?

He's somewhere between QB15 and QB20. McBride is a top 10, maybe a top 6 TE in the league. Budda is up there in the safety rankings. Paris is currently something like #9 amongst tackles. JC is currently RB8.

You could argue he's the most talented, which only highlights how disappointing his performances have been. Or you could argue he's the most important, because all QB's are, and the same argument about disappointment would apply.

But is he actually the best player on the team in that he's playing better at his position that others are at theirs? No, he's clearly not.

Can you get better by replacing a guy that's on the fringe of the bottom 3rd of QB's in the league? Clearly you can.

Clearly? Who are you replacing him with?

 

[WisconsinCard]

But he has had a winning season.

I should add that I didn't think he's a terrible QB. I don't even think they should move on from him. It's just my opinion of how I see his career playing out.

 

[Mark22]

First playoff game on the road and lost to the eventual Super Bowl winner.

The Horrah

Also, no Hopkins, no Connor, 3 starting OL on IR… he had help pissing.

 

[BritCard]

Clearly? Who are you replacing him with?

See below

Riddle me this. Who is an NFL starter, that's not a rookie or filling in for injury that makes us worse?

My thoughts are
Danny dimes
Anthony Richardson
Will Levi's
Young/Dalton
Watson even tho he was injured yesterday


That's probably it for me unless I'm forgetting someone.

 

[BritCard]

Also, no Hopkins, no Connor, 3 starting OL on IR… he had help pissing.

Kyler being bad is always someone else's fault. O line, Play caller, Kliff, wide receivers, defense, I don't think there's anything left that Kylers continued mediocrity hasn't been blamed on.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Clearly? Who are you replacing him with?

Nobody clearly we are tied to him for at least the next couple of years. But I ask who has he elevated? Maybe Kirk and McBride. One of those is an outlet TE and very talented. He didn't elevate his buddy Hollywood, Michael Wilson or Rondale Moore that's for sure.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I believe we were fun to watch for one year under Carson(2015) just as much we were fun to watch under Kyler(2021).

Are you having fun now? I didn't really care about 2021. What have you done for me lately? Not much, only an occasional game.

 

[kerouac9]

Kyler being bad is always someone else's fault.

Can we stop with the Kyler is bad/great conversations? It's obvious that neither are true, and unlikely to be so anytime soon.

The conversation should be around is Kyler good enough to ____________.

Is he good enough to take a mediocre team to the playoffs? I don't think so.

Is he good enough to lead a good team to the playoffs? I think so.

Based on that, then you have to pour resources into putting a good team around him. That takes skill and luck. Under-resourcing our 2024 roster was a choice, and likely puts us back another year. But maybe we get another 1-2 really good prospects out of it?

 

[SoonerLou]

6 year player in college who doesn’t really offer a high ceiling at all.

I could at least be sold on the Benson & Adams picks.

Problem with Benson was Braelon Allen looked like the ideal fit to replace Conner. Although twitter scouts said he didn't run hard enough.

I wanted Bucky Irving but pivoted because of a poor 40. He was the guy that could have given us something we haven't had since Chase. And he's arguably already better.

 

[DVontel]

Are you having fun now? I didn't really care about 2021. What have you done for me lately? Not much, only an occasional game.

I’m not having fun multiple reasons that just doesn’t have to deal with Kyler.

 

[DVontel]

Kyler being bad is always someone else's fault. O line, Play caller, Kliff, wide receivers, defense, I don't think there's anything left that Kylers continued mediocrity hasn't been blamed on.

Do you do this on purpose for likes?

You have a lot of people here already that are anti-Kyler & are ready to move on from him than the opposite. The fact you keep trying so hard to not see that is completely hilarious.

 

[kerouac9]

Do you do this on purpose for likes?

You have a lot of people here already that are anti-Kyler & are ready to move on from him than the opposite. The fact you keep trying so hard to not see that is completely hilarious.

I think it's fair to argue that there are some loud voices on this board who insist that Kyler cannot fail and can only be failed. There's a lot of whataboutism on this board about Kyler.

 

[DVontel]

I think it's fair to argue that there are some loud voices on this board who insist that Kyler cannot fail and can only be failed. There's a lot of whataboutism on this board about Kyler.

Those “loud voices” are in the minority. There was a thread created about 2-3 weeks ago & asked something along the lines of “Are you ready to move on from Kyler?” The majority voted “Yes” & even posted reasons as to why.

Just stop fishing for likes when it’s clear the majority share the same opinion you do.

 

[kerouac9]

Those “loud voices” are in the minority. There was a thread created about 2-3 weeks ago & asked something along the lines of “Are you ready to move on from Kyler?” The majority voted “Yes” & even posted reasons as to why.

Just stop fishing for likes when it’s clear the majority share the same opinion you do.

Here's the thread. It wasn't a majority who said yes; it was a plurality. People on the fence and people who weren't ready to move on (like me) outnumbered those who we hot to go by about 3:2.

If there were no debate about Kyler Murray this board would be dour. Having strong feelings on either side of the question really don't have a lot of solid evidence to back it up aside from rate stats (which I think underplay how coddled Kyler is in this offense).

Everything is bad. This is a sad and frustrating time to be a Cardinals fan.

On offense we're averaging less than a field goal more per game than last season, when many people believed we were uninterested in winning.

James Conner is averaging 3.4 YPC in the first half.

Trey McBride got a scary concussion that knocked him out of a game.

Our highly drafted wideout prospect looks worse than Michael Wilson.

If Michael Wilson stays healthy for the full season, he's on pace for 120 more yards than he had in a rookie season where he missed four games.

Our defense has improved from 31st in points to 29th. Our most intriguing defensive prospect is getting fewer snaps than Starling Thomas V.

It sucks.

 

[Stout]

First playoff game on the road and lost to the eventual Super Bowl winner.

The Horrah

No, the problems started way before the playoffs. We backed in--he could never win even a playoff clinching game.

 

[Stout]

Yea, I understand we’re all frustrated with Kyler’s inconsistency, but this revising about Carson’s career here is strange. Just like Kyler, Carson had truly 1 good/great season here. Even the playoff win some will probably hold Carson over Kyler, Carson was very lucky GB dropped about 3 more INTs than they already had and the defense was going against a depleted Packers’ offense.


I like Palmer a lot, too, but lets not do this.

Kyler had part of a great season. Kyler has never had a great season in full.

 

[Stout]

Also, no Hopkins, no Connor, 3 starting OL on IR… he had help pissing.

He did, no doubt. He, himself, did nothing to get the team to even win one damned game to clinch the playoffs. No amount of injuries accounts for that.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

Here's the thread. It wasn't a majority who said yes; it was a plurality. People on the fence and people who weren't ready to move on (like me) outnumbered those who we hot to go by about 3:2.

If there were no debate about Kyler Murray this board would be dour. Having strong feelings on either side of the question really don't have a lot of solid evidence to back it up aside from rate stats (which I think underplay how coddled Kyler is in this offense).

Everything is bad. This is a sad and frustrating time to be a Cardinals fan.

On offense we're averaging less than a field goal more per game than last season, when many people believed we were uninterested in winning.

James Conner is averaging 3.4 YPC in the first half.

Trey McBride got a scary concussion that knocked him out of a game.

Our highly drafted wideout prospect looks worse than Michael Wilson.

If Michael Wilson stays healthy for the full season, he's on pace for 120 more yards than he had in a rookie season where he missed four games.

Our defense has improved from 31st in points to 29th. Our most intriguing defensive prospect is getting fewer snaps than Starling Thomas V.

It sucks.

Yep- that about hits it lol.