Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Goodyear Card]

NFL Quarterback Rankings: Jayden Daniels, Brock Purdy Surge to Top Tier

With a third of the season behind us, some truths have been realized. For starters, Lamar Jackson is in firm contention for his third MVP award, rarified air oc

www.si.com

 

[602 Native]

KM is the least of our worries. I don’t know what people are thinking otherwise.

Cards Fans: Lets get rid of our best player so we can get better.

 

[602 Native]

NFL Quarterback Rankings: Jayden Daniels, Brock Purdy Surge to Top Tier

With a third of the season behind us, some truths have been realized. For starters, Lamar Jackson is in firm contention for his third MVP award, rarified air oc

www.si.com

Thanks for this.

13. Kyler Murray, Arizona Cardinals
LR: 7

Murray finally has some real talent around him with the addition of Marvin Harrison Jr. and the maturation of Michael Wilson and Trey McBride. Still, the Cardinals are 2–4, but Murray has played well, throwing eight touchdowns against two interceptions. He’s also 10th in success rate and 12th in adjusted EPA per play.

 

[Cardinal88]

Is this Murray guy any good?

In my opinion yes! I feel he has a coach who doesn’t really know how to use him, a defense who can’t stop anyone, and a team that was relying on first string to stay healthy because we do not have the depth especially on the OL.

Injuries are killing this team that didn’t have a lot of talent. Look at the 49ers (average team with injuries) but they have depth so it won’t affect them as much.

I have always felt Buddy Morris is doing something wrong with strength and conditioning but what do I know because they have kept the guy around forever.

 

[tennis-player]

In my opinion yes! I feel he has a coach who doesn’t really know how to use him, a defense who can’t stop anyone, and a team that was relying on first string to stay healthy because we do not have the depth especially on the OL.

Injuries are killing this team that didn’t have a lot of talent. Look at the 49ers (average team with injuries) but they have depth so it won’t affect them as much.

I have always felt Buddy Morris is doing something wrong with strength and conditioning but what do I know because they have kept the guy around forever.

Buddy Morris was replaced and has not been strength and conditioning coach for two years. His sole responsibility is rehabilitation from injuries.

 

[unseenaz]

There’s no such thing as white gravy in my time line.

Biscuits and gravy slander is your wildest take yet!

 

[urs]

KM is the least of our worries. I don’t know what people are thinking otherwise.

He threw a pass slightly behind Wilson but pretty much right in his gut, which is why we lost to Green Bay

 

[Goodyear Card]

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www.cbssports.com

 

[daves]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ve-enter-top-10-as-nfc-north-steals-the-show/

FTFY!

 

[Ronin]

Cardinals QB Kyler Murray remaining positive despite results

Kyler Murray is now six years into being a pro, and with time he continues to learn how to bounce back from losses and keep an even keel.

arizonasports.com

 

[Cardinal88]

Buddy Morris was replaced and has not been strength and conditioning coach for two years. His sole responsibility is rehabilitation from injuries.

Thanks! I did not know that. I see him on the sidelines and just assumed.

I guess it is in the water

 

[BritCard]

Cards Fans: Lets get rid of our best player so we can get better.

I mean, is he our best player?

He's somewhere between QB15 and QB20. McBride is a top 10, maybe a top 6 TE in the league. Budda is up there in the safety rankings. Paris is currently something like #9 amongst tackles. JC is currently RB8.

You could argue he's the most talented, which only highlights how disappointing his performances have been. Or you could argue he's the most important, because all QB's are, and the same argument about disappointment would apply.

But is he actually the best player on the team in that he's playing better at his position that others are at theirs? No, he's clearly not.

Can you get better by replacing a guy that's on the fringe of the bottom 3rd of QB's in the league? Clearly you can.

 

[BritCard]

He’s also 10th in success rate and 12th in adjusted EPA per play.

Bogus. I already pointed out that most of his efficiency and success has come in garbage time when the game is over one way or another.

You only need to look at where QB's are on this chart to see it's pretty much in line with where you would rank QB play this season.

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[BritCard]

Some of this has been a decent O line, but a lot of this is the way defenses are playing him to keep contain and not let him run.

Sad that he has these pockets to work with yet our passing game is ass.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BritCard]

This is the biggest disappointment of the season. This offense was supposed to make a leap with Kyler back and 2nd year in the offense, plus adding Marv, but it's statistically very similar to the first 6 games with Dobbs last year.

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[BritCard]

Yup.

I do love that the entire board has turned on Petzig when last year, without Kyler, the overwhelming majority of us were impressed with the playcalling, but frustrated because Dobbs kept missing guys all over the place.

Now, Petzig is the biggest moron in the world because a Kyler led offense, once again, is having trouble moving the ball and scoring TDs. All Petzig’s fault, just like it was all Kliff’s fault… despite Kliff’s offense now killing it with a rookie QB, one good WR and Cardinals level RBs and an older than dirt TE.

Brought this over here because it's a great point and something I was going to write myself.

Kliff has one of the best offenses in the league with a rookie QB, Terry McLaurin and a bunch of JAGs. Jayden Daniels has broken all kinds of long standing records through 6 games, not only for a rookie, but for all QB's.

This is the same guy were were told was holding Kyler back.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

When you have a player like Kyler receiving 25% of your cap space with weapons to work with- darn right he is the focal point of a truly disappointing cardinals offense. We were supposed to be lethal on offense, but yet we see the same inconsistent play complimented by cringe worthy throws in crucial moments.

In my books- this year is Murray’s last chance. I’m tired of the excuses- in 6 games he has had opportunities to deliver a big momentum changing play and fell short. He has no clutch factor- I can’t remember the last time the cardinals have gotten the ball and I felt confident that we were going to do something with it instead of me sitting nervously wondering how we are going to find a way to squander it.

You are what your record is, and at 2-4, the Kyler edition of the cardinals offense is very underwhelming. I would love for him to turn it around, I’ll gladly admit I was wrong about him or acknowledge that he has really found his groove. If we continue to get more of the same though- I’d rather reset the qb clock and build a more rounded team that doesn’t require a QB to take the entire team on its back

 

[DVontel]

this year is Murray’s last chance

What does this exactly mean? lol

 

[DVontel]

I have seen numerous “This is Kyler’s last chance” posts since the offseason.

What do you people mean by that?

The guy has already signed the big contract.

He’ll also be here next season.

So…..is it just to fill a status quo or something?

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

What does this exactly mean? lol

Last chance to make something happen this year before we should start thinking about making moves to get out of this contract. No one is invincible- look at Russel Wilson/broncos saga

 

[DVontel]

Last chance to make something happen this year before we should start thinking about making moves to get out of this contract

He’s going to be here next season & he should.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I mean, is he our best player?

He's somewhere between QB15 and QB20. McBride is a top 10, maybe a top 6 TE in the league. Budda is up there in the safety rankings. Paris is currently something like #9 amongst tackles. JC is currently RB8.

You could argue he's the most talented, which only highlights how disappointing his performances have been. Or you could argue he's the most important, because all QB's are, and the same argument about disappointment would apply.

That's an interesting, and fair question.

On the team, is K1 playing better at his position than anyone else on the team?

Well, not Budda. Probably PJJ. Maybe McBride. Conner deserves some consideration.

The caveat for PJJ is that his performance is much less dependent on other players' performances. Murray needs guys to run good routes, get open, and catch the ball when they get two hands on it. Conner needs capable blocking. McBride needs a QB that can get him the ball in good order.

You could also ask: Is Kyler Murray the Cardinals MVP?

CW's current Cardinal MVP rankings:

1. Kyler Murray
2. James Conner
3. Paris Johnson
4. Trey McBride
5. Budda Baker

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[BritCard]

You could also ask: Is Kyler Murray the Cardinals MVP?

You could ask, but the answer would be no.

He's had one great game against the Rams. One reasonable game against the Bills and 4 below average performances against everyone else.

I think there are 15 QBs in the league you could drop into this offense on Sunday and it would perform better.

 

[BritCard]

Good news, I have all 22 back...

This was a random Q2 play I stopped at. It's 2nd down. It's one for the "Nobody is getting open/seperation" people. What happens next?

Both Weaver and McBride are running towards the sideline at the angles you can see here. Both are as open as it gets in the NFL, not an easy throw by any means but not a hard throw either. McBrides is most difficult because the CB he's heading towards has his eyes back. Weaver though is easy. The safety ain't getting back to make a play on that from where he is if Kyler drops it outside the numbers to the 45. And Higgins is wide open for probably a 1st down. He can turn back in field and run that past the sticks.

What it ends up as is a 4 yard Kyler run out of bounds.

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This is the next play. Kyler gets pushed out of the pocket by pressure. You may recall this one as the pass he throws right back across the field and into the ground while trying to hit Dortch coming back.

But I wanted to highlight Mike Wilson down the field. No QB sees everything, but Wilson is wide open in Kylers line of sight. I'd like to see Mike waving his arms here though.

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This is the zone read play that Petzing was quizzed about, I thought he was a bit pissy about it and I think he's right because I thought at the time "What was Kyler thinking?"

Is you have 2 guys on the Edge you are going to rush towards how can the zone read ever work? What did Kyler think was going to happen?

The safety is obviously there to stop the read option and he's stood right there as Kyler makes the decision. Worst still is this is 3rd and 1 and the crease is there was JC to get the 1 yard.

For me there are 5 options here and Kyler chose the worst one. 1. Let Connor get the yard. 2. Motion McBride to the other side to block the safety. 3. Check out of this play when you see the safety down to the line. 4. If you have the option switch the play in the opposite direction and run to the other side where you have McBride.

I don't like the play call either. If they run a straightforward run here with Paris staying in to block the DE this is an easy 1st down.

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Anyway, the All 22 is full of bad reads and bad choices. I know guys need to subscribe to NFL Pro to get All 22 but I'd recommend it. I wish I could get it outside the US, but you get fully filterable game clips and can do things such as "Show me every Kyler Murray 3rd and 5+ from every year".

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That first play I mentioned in the game thread. Had he been decisive and run right away it's an easy first down. He was focused though on Wilson and the deep throw and ignoring everything else.