Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[602 Native]

Here's my main Kyler issue.

Sunday is a HUGE game. If we win, our playoff odds are over 70% and if we lose they drop to 17%. It's similar for the Seahawks. It is, by all definitions, a season defining game.

Yet, I have very little faith in Kyler to deliver. If it's Joe Burrow, Allen, Mahomes, Lamar, Goff, Herbert, even Baker Mayfield etc out there I have faith those guys will deliver in the crunch. They will do what it takes and find a way to get the team over the line.

I just don't have that with Kyler. How many here do? How many people here honestly feel that Kyler will "find a way" more than they feel that gnawing sense of dread that it's going to be another damp squib of a performance?

How many people feel that a 300 yard, 3/0 TD/INT game is more likely than 210 yard 1/1 game?

Card's Fan mentality on full display.

This is exactly why there is a running thread called Darksiders here.

We are favored in this game and at home. No guarantees but we should win.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just to add on to this:

That’s why I hate the tired-ass “Can we win a SB with this guy?” conversation.

Truth is we don’t know because no other young QB has won a SB outside of Mahomes.

Yeah… the title convo is kinda worthless. The bar for me is asking the question if your QB can consistently get your team to the playoff and win a game or two.

 

[Chopper0080]

MHJ is the primary and Murray is already in his throwing motion when MHJ starts to make his break (at :04). It looked like a timing route, and I think that ball was going up no matter what SoonerLou.

I guess you have to credit the defender for covering MHJ really well. It's like he read MHJ's mind, and it wasn't a great throw either. Higher and more to the outside and maybe MHJ outjumps #1 for MIN.

But it's not the end of the world though okay?

The last two were super unfriendly QB games. For anybody. But Murray and the team just about pulled this one off. He was close. We were up six with 3 minutes to go.

Let's see where we're at after this week's game. It doesn't need to be too pretty, we just need to win. Then we go up against couple of weaker defenses, and maybe Kyler can get back in the MVP conversation (which is not important from the team's perspective obviously, but is fun for us K1 superfans).

I have an issue with placement on this by Kyler but I also do not see the scramble opportunity. I don't understand why Kyler would throw the ball with a flat break vs an angled break when MHJ has the def pinned on his hip at the break. The throw is to lead MHJ up the field (not straight) so MHJ can reach for the ball vs fighting through a defender on a flat break when the defender has better leverage. Maybe Kyler was trying to force a DPI or just made an inaccurate throw? I don't know, but, nothing special in that situation.

 

[602 Native]

Ehh I think Goff & Lamar belong at least. They have some playoff wins even as an underdog. Herbert hasn’t done anything even though I know he’s a better QB than Kyler.

But realistically no young QB has won anything outside of Mahomes.

Just to add on to this:

That’s why I hate the tired-ass “Can we win a SB with this guy?” conversation.

Truth is we don’t know because no other young QB has won a SB outside of Mahomes.

People are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Most Cards fans have zero self-awareness of what K1 has had to overcome.
Poor Ownership
Poor Coaching
Poor Facilities
Poor Front Office

Then the fans are like, 'I DOnt KNOws iFs K1 CaN WIn A sUpER bOWl' derp.

Clueless

 

[DVontel]

Big game against Green Bay in 2021, fluffed his lines at the end of the game.

What are the big game wins that make you think Kyler can pull it off?

I feel like this is such a random game to use, lol.

Does the game against Dallas in Dallas way later in that same season not count? Yea, I know we were falling off at that time, but I believe that was the game that kept us in the playoffs in the first place. That Dallas game was way bigger than that Green Bay game.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Awesome. He's 4-4 as a starter in the playoffs. To make the Super Bowl last year, the Lions took a 24-7 lead into halftime. After the break, Detroit went turned the ball over on downs twice, fumbled, went three-and-out, and turned the ball over on downs again. What's his most memorable playoff win?

Not trying to put Goff in the HoF... but, his W-L record in the regular season is 77 & 51. Yea, he's 4 & 4 in post season, having taking a team to the Super Bowl and lost to the greatest QB in the history of the NFL.
I'm offering this ONLY in the context that he's more clutch and a better QB than Kyler.

 

[602 Native]

I feel like this is such a random game to use, lol.

Does the game against Dallas in Dallas way later in that same season not count? Yea, I know we were falling off at that time, but I believe that was the game that kept us in the playoffs in the first place. That Dallas game was way bigger than that Green Bay game.

This doesn’t fit the narrative so it will be dismissed and ignored.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I feel like this is such a random game to use, lol.

Does the game against Dallas in Dallas way later in that same season not count? Yea, I know we were falling off at that time, but I believe that was the game that kept us in the playoffs in the first place. That Dallas game was way bigger than that Green Bay game.

Nah. We’d already backed our way into playoffs when we played Dallas. We could have lost that game and still ended up exactly where we ended up. The only thing on the line there was whether or not we still had a shot at the division title, which we did the next week but faceplanted at home to a weak Seahawks team with a chance to win and take the 2 seed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This doesn’t fit the narrative so it will be dismissed and ignored.

It’s also not true. We’d already backed into at least a Wild Card by the time we played Dallas. Playoffs weren’t in doubt at all.

The entire issue with those two back to back Cardinals seasons is they shot out of the gate and had multiple games to clinch playoff berths in 2020 and 2021 and we went something like 0-5, with some truly pathetic home losses to the Niners 3-13 JV squad or Indy’s MASH unit on Xmas or Detroit’s 1-12 pathetic squad.

 

[DVontel]

Nah. We’d already backed our way into playoffs when we played Dallas. We could have lost that game and still ended up exactly where we ended up. The only thing on the line there was whether or not we still had a shot at the division title, which we did the next week but faceplanted at home to a weak Seahawks team with a chance to win the division.

Thank you.

 

[DVontel]

Not trying to put Goff in the HoF... but, his W-L record in the regular season is 77 & 51. Yea, he's 4 & 4 in post season, having taking a team to the Super Bowl and lost to the greatest QB in the history of the NFL.
I'm offering this ONLY in the context that he's more clutch and a better QB than Kyler.

Is there such thing as “more clutch“? Goff still choked a huge lead & played awful in the SB. To everybody else, he is still billed as a loser/choke artist. Every QB is outside of Mahomes. It’s such a broad ass term. You might think I’m trying to defend Kyler here, but I’m not.

 

[Stout]

People are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Most Cards fans have zero self-awareness of what K1 has had to overcome.
Poor Ownership
Poor Coaching
Poor Facilities
Poor Front Office

Then the fans are like, 'I DOnt KNOws iFs K1 CaN WIn A sUpER bOWl' derp.

Clueless

Come at me once he overcomes anything in a meaningful game.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I feel like this is such a random game to use, lol.

Does the game against Dallas in Dallas way later in that same season not count? Yea, I know we were falling off at that time, but I believe that was the game that kept us in the playoffs in the first place. That Dallas game was way bigger than that Green Bay game.

Unfortunately, and despite several attempts, Murray hasn't won an NFL game that:

1. Clinched a playoff spot
2. Clinched the #1 seed
3. Won the division
4. Was a playoff game

But even though Sunday's game won't be part of the above group, I consider it almost like a playoff game. If he plays well Sunday, it will be the start of chasing the "can't win big games" monkey off his back.

Thanks for sticking up for him btw D'Vontel. I don't know if you ever make it to the home games, but it would be cool to meet you if you could make it to the 12/15 NE game.

 

[kerouac9]

Is there such thing as “more clutch“? Goff still choked a huge lead & played awful in the SB. To everybody else, he is still billed as a loser/choke artist. Every QB is outside of Mahomes. It’s such a broad ass term. You might think I’m trying to defend Kyler here, but I’m not.

I don't know if Goff is billed as a loser and choke artist -- I don't think of him that way. I just don't consider him to belong on that list with other clutch players. I think Burrow, Josh Allen, and some others have shown enough that even if they haven't won it all they can be considered better than Kyler when the game/season is on the line.

 

[602 Native]

Come at me once he overcomes anything in a meaningful game.

Come at me when this organization shows they are competent in any way.

 

[Chopper0080]

Some fun Kyler Murray split stats for this season.

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[Chopper0080]

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[BirdGangThing]

Come at me when this organization shows they are competent in any way.

kurt warner and carson palmer both made it to the super bowl with this organization while in arizona

 

[602 Native]

kurt warner and carson palmer both made it to the super bowl with this organization while in arizona

No they didnt

 

[BirdGangThing]

No they didnt

damn these gummies are strong lol i could've swore

 

[kerouac9]

You must be registered for see images attach

Kyler throwing short of the sticks on third and long is my ick.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Is there such thing as “more clutch“? Goff still choked a huge lead & played awful in the SB. To everybody else, he is still billed as a loser/choke artist. Every QB is outside of Mahomes. It’s such a broad ass term. You might think I’m trying to defend Kyler here, but I’m not.

Sure... however, if I had a choice as to who I would trust more in clutch moments, I'd take Goff.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don't know if Goff is billed as a loser and choke artist -- I don't think of him that way. I just don't consider him to belong on that list with other clutch players. I think Burrow, Josh Allen, and some others have shown enough that even if they haven't won it all they can be considered better than Kyler when the game/season is on the line.

And yet, unlike Kyler, Goff has 4 post season wins. Has taken 2 separate teams to the post season, taking one of them all the way to the Super Bowl when at the age of 24 yrs old.
Again, I'm not suggesting he's a HoFer or on par with Mahomes or Allen (who hasn't yet taken a team to the Super Bowl). But if we're guessing at who we would prefer in clutch moments over Kyler, Goff is 100% on my list.

 

[DVontel]

Sure... however, if I had a choice as to who I would trust more in clutch moments, I'd take Goff.

That wasn’t my question but alright.

 

[kerouac9]

And yet, unlike Kyler, Goff has 4 post season wins. Has taken 2 separate teams to the post season, taking one of them all the way to the Super Bowl when at the age of 24 yrs old.
Again, I'm not suggesting he's a HoFer or on par with Mahomes or Allen (who hasn't yet taken a team to the Super Bowl). But if we're guessing at who we would prefer in clutch moments over Kyler, Goff is 100% on my list.

This sounds like someone who checked a PFR page and didn't remember that Goff was dragged to those playoff wins by Sean McVay and an uber-talented roster. Goff averages 1 TD per playoff appearance.

Jared Goff with wheels is an 85th percentile outcome for Kyler Murray.