Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[schutd]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

Imagine realizing this, wanting to love Kyler, and simultaneously hating on Prescott.
I'm a walking dichotomy, Jerry.

 

[Stout]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

I would put Riers a cut above the others, though. Otherwise, yeah. Can anyone honestly say the Cowgirls haven't been just as dysfunctional as the Cards lately under Jerruh?

 

[Stout]

I think people only hate Dak because of the team he plays for.

Yeah. I don't hate Dak (except that he plays for the Cowgirls). Otherwise, I don't think much about him at all. Middle-of-the-road guy like KM.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah. I don't hate Dak (except that he plays for the Cowgirls). Otherwise, I don't think much about him at all. Middle-of-the-road guy like KM.

See I think they’re both above-average QBs just good enough to break your heart. Only difference is who has the bigger contract at any time.

Derek Carr is a middle-of-the-road QB.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yeah. I don't hate Dak (except that he plays for the Cowgirls). Otherwise, I don't think much about him at all. Middle-of-the-road guy like KM.

omg Stout they flashed a graphic on the broadcast of either the SEA or MIN game that the brave and courageous Kyler Murray has a legitimate chance to be the 2nd QB in NFL history to have, for an entire season, a passer rating of 100.0 and average 8.0 per rushing attempt. K1 is currently at 94.8 and 7.8 respectively.

The only other QB to achieve this? HOF'er Roger Staubach!

Murray is not a "middle of the road" guy! He's exceptionally talented and is playing at a very high level!

 

[DaHilg]

I would put Riers a cut above the others, though. Otherwise, yeah. Can anyone honestly say the Cowgirls haven't been just as dysfunctional as the Cards lately under Jerruh?

Talent disparity is and has been wide… but yes they are dysfunctional. The amount of weapons on offense they’ve had the past 4-5 years and amount of talent on defense - if they were a half way decent organization that team should compete every year for the NFC championship. Dak is one of the worse 4th quarter QBs in the league

 

[kerouac9]

Murray is not a "middle of the road" guy! He's exceptionally talented and is playing at a very high level!

How do you square this with the fact that our passing offense is mediocre and Kyler lags in almost every category outside QBR?

 

[Stout]

omg Stout they flashed a graphic on the broadcast of either the SEA or MIN game that the brave and courageous Kyler Murray has a legitimate chance to be the 2nd QB in NFL history to have, for an entire season, a passer rating of 100.0 and average 8.0 per rushing attempt. K1 is currently at 94.8 and 7.8 respectively.

The only other QB to achieve this? HOF'er Roger Staubach!

Murray is not a "middle of the road" guy! He's exceptionally talented and is playing at a very high level!

Yay, Kyler may attain a meaningless stat only one other QB has attained! If he does so by leading us to the playoffs or at least a good showing down the stretch, great! He'll deserve plaudits. If he does so while crapping the bed again, he'll be buried on this board. Rightly so. The key point here is that this meaningless stat will mean...well, nothing.

Come back at me when he sets a real record, like for passing yards, TDs, etc. Or come back at me when he actually reaches milestones other QBs reach normally, multiple times. Or even when he wins a single game of true significance.

Sorry, but all this "he's exceptionally talented!" talk is utter rubbish because he has shown nothing but average to crap play with any kind of consistency. When he starts translating his raw physical ability to consistent winning football, or consistently show the "exceptional talent" he only flashes now and then, well, then we can talk great QB or exceptionally talented. We're how many years down the road and still waiting to see if he can come good. That isn't where he should be or where we need him to be. Not even close.

 

[kerouac9]

Sorry, but all this "he's exceptionally talented!" talk is utter rubbish because he has shown nothing but average to crap play with any kind of consistency.

If you’re gonna call out 602 like this you might as well @ him.

He’s never been, like, Anthony Richardson or Jimmy Garappolo or Alex Smith, for whom that label is more applicable.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

How do you square this with the fact that our passing offense is mediocre and Kyler lags in almost every category outside QBR?

Great question, thank you!

First, he significantly impacts games with his rushing, and that has to be considered as part of his overall performance. It's only fair.

Also, I would assume we're near the bottom of the league in passing attempts and so that's why some of the volume numbers (Yards and TDs) don't look that great. It's only fair to consider this when evaluating our passing offense.

Finally it takes two players to complete a pass play. What do Murray's passing stats look like when he targets McBride? Like he's the best QB in the universe? It's only fair to consider his receiving corps when evaluating our passing offense.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yay, Kyler may attain a meaningless stat only one other QB has attained! If he does so by leading us to the playoffs or at least a good showing down the stretch, great! He'll deserve plaudits. If he does so while crapping the bed again, he'll be buried on this board. Rightly so. The key point here is that this meaningless stat will mean...well, nothing.

Come back at me when he sets a real record, like for passing yards, TDs, etc. Or come back at me when he actually reaches milestones other QBs reach normally, multiple times. Or even when he wins a single game of true significance.

Sorry, but all this "he's exceptionally talented!" talk is utter rubbish because he has shown nothing but average to crap play with any kind of consistency. When he starts translating his raw physical ability to consistent winning football, or consistently show the "exceptional talent" he only flashes now and then, well, then we can talk great QB or exceptionally talented. We're how many years down the road and still waiting to see if he can come good. That isn't where he should be or where we need him to be. Not even close.

Stout you act like rushing production doesn't matter at all. It's invisible to you. That's not fair man.

But whatevs. At least you darksiders can confidently parade around the "hasn't won a big game" thing if that fuels your righteous indignation.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

omg Stout they flashed a graphic on the broadcast of either the SEA or MIN game that the brave and courageous Kyler Murray has a legitimate chance to be the 2nd QB in NFL history to have, for an entire season, a passer rating of 100.0 and average 8.0 per rushing attempt. K1 is currently at 94.8 and 7.8 respectively.

The only other QB to achieve this? HOF'er Roger Staubach!

Murray is not a "middle of the road" guy! He's exceptionally talented and is playing at a very high level!

Roger Staubach did not do it for an entire season. In 1971, he picked up the starting job from Craig Morton in week 8. He started and won 7 regular season games in a 14-game season (unless they are counting his 3 playoff wins as well). It has to be that season since it is the only one he finished above 100 in passer rating. So - surprise - stats lie and you shouldn't believe everything that's posted on screen during a broadcast.

 

[BritCard]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

Agree except on the Herbert aspect.

 

[BritCard]

Great question, thank you!

First, he significantly impacts games with his rushing, and that has to be considered as part of his overall performance. It's only fair.

Also, I would assume we're near the bottom of the league in passing attempts and so that's why some of the volume numbers (Yards and TDs) don't look that great. It's only fair to consider this when evaluating our passing offense.

Finally it takes two players to complete a pass play. What do Murray's passing stats look like when he targets McBride? Like he's the best QB in the universe? It's only fair to consider his receiving corps when evaluating our passing offense.

Even if you use percentage he's 26th in TD's and 19th in yards.

 

[BritCard]

Stout you act like rushing production doesn't matter at all. It's invisible to you. That's not fair man.

But whatevs. At least you darksiders can confidently parade around the "hasn't won a big game" thing if that fuels your righteous indignation.

Kyler has 103 yards rushing over the last 5 games. That's why we ain't counting rushing.

 

[602 Native]

omg Stout they flashed a graphic on the broadcast of either the SEA or MIN game that the brave and courageous Kyler Murray has a legitimate chance to be the 2nd QB in NFL history to have, for an entire season, a passer rating of 100.0 and average 8.0 per rushing attempt. K1 is currently at 94.8 and 7.8 respectively.

The only other QB to achieve this? HOF'er Roger Staubach!

Murray is not a "middle of the road" guy! He's exceptionally talented and is playing at a very high level!

Again they have to stick to the narrative of being right even though they have been wrong about everything involving K1.

- Can't play from under center
- Won't have the same explosiveness after the injury
- Can't read a defense
- Is not consistent
- Is not a leader
- Won't play in the 2023-2024 season
- Traded in the 2025 season

Even this year they said after 4 games he wasn't a good QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

Only quibble here is Rivers consistently got his teams into the playoffs and could do more with less than those guys. And had some nuclear seasons where he helped teams win 12 or more games a handful of times.

Not that he was heads and tails above the above, but I put him in a slightly higher tier.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Stout you act like rushing production doesn't matter at all. It's invisible to you. That's not fair man.

But whatevs. At least you darksiders can confidently parade around the "hasn't won a big game" thing if that fuels your righteous indignation.

I’d think never winning a big game in SIX YEARS would make all Cardinals fans rightfully indignant.

 

[602 Native]

How do you square this with the fact that our passing offense is mediocre and Kyler lags in almost every category outside QBR?

Fire Petzing

 

[Chopper0080]

You know, all the people on this board who love Kyler and hate Dak seem to miss the obvious point that Kyler IS Dak Prescott.

Kyler is a little more physically gifted; Dak is a little more cerebral. Kyler, Dak, Kirk Cousins, Phil Rivers. They’re all the same dude. Justin Herbert is knocking on the door of this club, also.

Apparently you have a bias against Chargers QBs?

 

[Chopper0080]

Great question, thank you!

First, he significantly impacts games with his rushing, and that has to be considered as part of his overall performance. It's only fair.

Also, I would assume we're near the bottom of the league in passing attempts and so that's why some of the volume numbers (Yards and TDs) don't look that great. It's only fair to consider this when evaluating our passing offense.

Finally it takes two players to complete a pass play. What do Murray's passing stats look like when he targets McBride? Like he's the best QB in the universe? It's only fair to consider his receiving corps when evaluating our passing offense.

Does he tho? I would argue that he does not run enough to consider it "seriously impacting" the game. I watched him run a 2 min drill to try to tie the game vs MN and his rushing did zero to help that.

It's a factor for sure, but it is severely overstated on this board.

 

[Chopper0080]

Only quibble here is Rivers consistently got his teams into the playoffs and could do more with less than those guys. And had some nuclear seasons where he helped teams win 12 or more games a handful of times.

Not that he was heads and tails above the above, but I put him in a slightly higher tier.

The slander to Philip Rivers was shocking.

 

[DVontel]

The slander to Philip Rivers was shocking.

I disagree somewhat with Cheese’s statement. The narrative around Rivers is that he had some extremely talented teams to only letdown in the postseason.

 

[Stout]

Stout you act like rushing production doesn't matter at all. It's invisible to you. That's not fair man.

But whatevs. At least you darksiders can confidently parade around the "hasn't won a big game" thing if that fuels your righteous indignation.

Not at all. He's a threat to rush, sure. Hasn't worked so well recently (reference the inexcusable pick 6/awful rushing play) but, on the whole, he's a rushing threat. Passing wise, he just isn't where he needs to be. He's had several locked-in, laser-focused games, and those were wonderful. We all loved those times. Unfortunately, he has not done enough in the passing game, which is many times more important than his rushing stats. Above, you said he hasn't had a chance to throw as much, and that's more than fair. Thing is, if given more of an open offense and the ability to throw a lot, will he make the necessary plays? That would give him more opportunity to excel in the passing game, but it would also give him more opportunity to fail in the passing game.

I guess I'm just snake bit by how bad he's been in exactly these types of games. I'm already mentally preparing for the failure so that, maybe, it'll hurt less when it happens?

Eh, we'll see. Hopefully he leads the team to the win it very much needs.

 

[Stout]

Fire Petzing

= anyone but Kyler.