Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[kerouac9]

ARe you watching the Washington game? Deep crossing pattern over the middle hits the WR in the helmet. I guarantee you Washington fans aren't blaming Jayden Daniels right now for not throwing the ball low and outside.

the INT part is a fluke because it hit off the helmet and bounced up. He literally hit the TE in the head and you're saying it's not an accurate throw?

That might be because Jayden Daniel’s has 22 TDs and 8 INTs and is 10-5 as a starter.

Just a guess though. He’s probably earned some benefit of the doubt. I don’t think he got beat by the Panthers last week.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, and it didn't have to be thrown at a million miles per hour. There may have been a hold on the play, but it was also a bad throw. Both can be true.

It wasn't thrown a million miles an hour it just hit off a helmet that's why it went so high up in the air.

 

[Russ Smith]

That might be because Jayden Daniel’s has 22 TDs and 8 INTs and is 10-5 as a starter.

Just a guess though. He’s probably earned some benefit of the doubt. I don’t think he got beat by the Panthers last week.

None of that is relevant though we're talking about one play.

That play didn't get picked off because we lost to Carolina, it got picked off because of bad luck, bounced high up in the air and the replay refs say yes it hit the ground but he had control of it, interception

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Trey himself after the game said it would have been a TD but he was late getting around because the guy covering him grabbed him as he was turning to cut outside. I don't have the video to look at the timing of that grab to when Kyler threw the ball but that's what Trey said after the game, I was a beat slow getting my head around because of the contact

Exactly what I expect a player to say. Taking accountability. I’ve said it repeatedly, trey should have caught that. I’ve also said repeatedly that kyler could have made a better, easier to catch throw with better placement. Both can be, and are true. Many QBs - the good ones - make a better placement for an easier catch.

 

[kerouac9]

None of that is relevant though we're talking about one play.

That play didn't get picked off because we lost to Carolina, it got picked off because of bad luck, bounced high up in the air and the replay refs say yes it hit the ground but he had control of it, interception

This is a terrible take and you know that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Which is why it was a bad throw. As a QB you can’t ignore your receiver having to play thru contact. Kyler has to wait a beat or throw it lower so even a miss just ends in an incompletion. We all know if you miss high in the middle of the field, bad things can happen.

Unless you have a replay that shows the whole field we have no idea where Trey was when Kyler released the ball.

My guess is he threw it just as Trey started his break, which is right when the guy held him.. You can't control what happens after you release the ball

I mean we're at the point now where if Kyler releases that ball and Trey trips and falls and the ball gets picked, people aer going to say well if it was low and outside it wouldn't have been picked.

His helmet is right where his hands would be if he had gotten turned faster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

LOL

The ball hit him in both hands

Wilson has two jobs

Run a good route and catch balls

He did one of those jobs

Lol indeed. Your inability to hold kyker accountable is funny. I really just cannot understand people who worship individual players and can’t be objective. It’s so weird to me.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is a terrible take and you know that.

No it isn't we're not talking about should Kyler be replaced I've already said I'm good with that if we can get someone better.

We're talking about people using one incredibly flukey play as proof Kyler sucks.

 

[kerouac9]

No it isn't we're not talking about should Kyler be replaced I've already said I'm good with that if we can get someone better.

We're talking about people using one incredibly flukey play as proof Kyler sucks.

No one is using one fluke play alone to prove that Kyler sucks. Cmon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You mean the all 22 when it was clear there was no way for him to plant and throw that ball to him because he escaped a broken blocked blitz and was running the opposite direction? Yeah we saw that and discussed it to death.

I think he was talking about last night. It was the play where kyker had all sorts of time and charmin is running down the center of the field by himself waving his arms. It’s disturbing.

 

[slanidrac16]

No it isn't we're not talking about should Kyler be replaced I've already said I'm good with that if we can get someone better.

We're talking about people using one incredibly flukey play as proof Kyler sucks.

I don’t think many here are resting their case on one play.

 

[slanidrac16]

Watching Daniels has the “ it” factor. Watching Kyler he doesn’t.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don’t think many here are resting their case on one play.

They're not, they're doing the opposite. They're using their opinion that Kyler needs to go to claim a ball that hit the receiver in the head was an inaccurate throw.

If Clayton Tune had made that exact throw with the exact result nobody on here would be saying that's a bad throw needs to be more outside.

 

[kerouac9]

They're not, they're doing the opposite. They're using their opinion that Kyler needs to go to claim a ball that hit the receiver in the head was an inaccurate throw.

If Clayton Tune had made that exact throw with the exact result nobody on here would be saying that's a bad throw needs to be more outside.

Yes very strange we have higher expectations for Kyler Murray than Clayton Tune.

Completely inexplicable.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes very strange we have higher expectations for Kyler Murray than Clayton Tune
Completely inexplicable.

I don't know what is more accurate than literally hitting the guy in the head. It's exactly where his hands would be, if he had turned earlier.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just heard that Kyler is 1-17 vs the division in November and December games.

Holy smokes.

 

[The6]

Watching Daniels has the “ it” factor. Watching Kyler he doesn’t.

Falcons qb is nice too.

 

[BritCard]

I get this argument but getting pressured on one in four throws is bad and the Bengals OL is bad.

The league average for the 2023 season was 21%. So it's not far off average.

 

[BritCard]

You might want to tell Trey McBride that since he got up after immediately screaming at the refs for a flag. He wasn't saying being hit in the helmet was a penalty he was saying he was held on coming out of his break.

The announcers mentioned it too. I don't think the ball was in the air when 3 grabbed him which is why I'm saying holding not PI. Your pic shows it with the ball in the air

Players cry for holding all the time, especially after an INT.

If he was held that means he was late, which means had he not been held the pass would have been behind his head. Which makes it even worse.

 

[BritCard]

You literally just posted a picture that shows why he didn't lead him outside. Because the guy who ended up intercepting the carom is outside and in a position to come off Wilson and break up the pass if he leads him further.

again no objection to moving on from Kyler if we can get someone better but trying to make THAT pass an example of Kyler being terrible is just silly. They asked McBride about it after the game and he said, he was late getting around because he got held, and that's why he didn't see the ball in time. Said he couldn't believe the result he and Kyler were both yelling for a flag for the hold and then they all thought it would be overturned on replay since the ball touched the ground

There is nobody in the image in a position to make a play if the ball is where it should be.

If the ball hits you in the helmet at 60mph on an outbreaking route it is, by default, a bad pass.

 

[BritCard]

That might be because Jayden Daniel’s has 22 TDs and 8 INTs and is 10-5 as a starter.

Just a guess though. He’s probably earned some benefit of the doubt. I don’t think he got beat by the Panthers last week.

Jayden Daniels is already clearly better than Kyler. Much better thrower. Better pocket presence, goes through reads etc. Much better in clutch situations.

That Skins roster is no better than ours, the difference is that JD has been much better at QB.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just heard that Kyler is 1-17 vs the division in November and December games.

Holy smokes.

Quoting my own post here...

His level of play degrades throughout the season every year, he just can't function when he gets even slightly banged up... those first 5 or 6 weeks he often looks incredible... but then he rolls his ankle or takes a big sack and we see him becoming this panic fueled player who looks for dump offs first, and who's remaining speed goes to "flight" instead of "fight".

It's just as much mental as it is physical. Late in games he is a big time "between the 20s" player. He can help move the sticks and keep possession but when it comes to making the big plays in the key spots, his moments have been few and far between. When they happen, they're spectacular, but they are far too rare.

 

[Stout]

I thought you were talking about the play early early in the season.

Gotcha, no worries.

 

[Russ Smith]

There is nobody in the image in a position to make a play if the ball is where it should be.

If the ball hits you in the helmet at 60mph on an outbreaking route it is, by default, a bad pass.

Again we ran that EXACT play earlier this year, he threw the ball more outside and the CB on the Wr dropped his man and came over and broke it up. It literally happened earlier this season, I think it was actually thrown to Higgins not McBride but same route the CB was able to come off his man and knock the ball down.

Ball could have been lower, since Trey's hands are lower my guess is he expected it lower. But if he puts it further to his left, he just increases the odds the CB on Jones makes a play on it

 

[Russ Smith]

Jayden Daniels is already clearly better than Kyler. Much better thrower. Better pocket presence, goes through reads etc. Much better in clutch situations.

That Skins roster is no better than ours, the difference is that JD has been much better at QB.

So did he throw a bad pass tonight when he hit his WR in the helmet?