Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[QuebecCard]

Good insight. Based on what we have heard from Murray “drew calls the plays, im just here to execute them” - I imagine these film/game planning days have been KK and then petzing breaking down the film and feeding Murray the game plan and him just responding “uh huh”. The only glimmer of hope we got this season was when we heard Murray asked MHjr what routes he was comfortable running - but even that is so ridiculously basic

The receivers who have played with the true greats, like manning and Brady, have all had some account where sitting down with them for game planning was long hours with intense break downs. Never have heard an ounce of that from Murray.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[602 Native]

k1 is better than Mr. Irrelevant...that gets me soooooo pumped!

And yet you have people here brag about Purdy weekly

 

[602 Native]

I beg you to tell me how Kyler is better than either.

Smith made the Pro Bowl the last 2 years and his numbers in all categories of any importance crap all over Kylers.

Purdy, in his last 2 seasons as full time starter has 2 x 4000+ yard seasons, 31 TD's last year and 20 and counting this year. Kyler has never passed what? 25? His career YPA is 8.9, which craps all over Kyler's, he averages over 260 yards per game, which again craps on Kylers, as does his passer rating. He was 4th in MVP voting last year, and Kyler has never ranked.

Freaking nuts to think either guy is not better, not just statistically but just watching them play.

Purdy playing with All Pros on offense and defense.

We will see how much the Whiners are willing to give their game manager.

 

[krazy2k]

And yet you have people here brag about Purdy weekly

Purdy is out this week against the Cardinals. So, no excuses from KM if he has yet another lousy "second half of the season" performance.

 

[602 Native]

Purdy is out this week against the Cardinals. So, no excuses from KM if he has yet another lousy "second half of the season" performance.

We beat the whiners already in Palo this should be no different.

Purdy isn’t what makes the whiners go it is CMC and flows down from there.

 

[Stout]

K1 getting spanked by Annie again

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And a new nickname is born: Bad Elf.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

And yet you have people here brag about Purdy weekly

Now that you've had a chance to think about it 602, do you think K1 can get over the hump next year?

Do you think Murray, knowing full well now that December games/clutch situations are a huge issue, can do something to make himself significantly better in those situations? Like what percentage chance would you assign to him turning it around on this issue for 2025?

For discussion purposes, let's stipulate that we upgrade the WR room some, and Marvelous Marvin makes progress in year 2 (so that if Murray actually does make a good throw in a clutch situation, someone catches is without first running out of bounds, haha).

Also, let's leave DP's play calling outside of the discussion for the moment. No rush on your answer man and happy new year!

 

[Stout]

Now that you've had a chance to think about it 602, do you think K1 can get over the hump next year?

Do you think Murray, knowing full well now that December games/clutch situations are a huge issue, can do something to make himself significantly better in those situations? Like what percentage chance would you assign to him turning it around on this issue for 2025?

For discussion purposes, let's stipulate that we upgrade the WR room some, and Marvelous Marvin makes progress in year 2 (so that if Murray actually does make a good throw in a clutch situation, someone catches is without first running out of bounds).

Also, let's leave DP's play calling outside of the discussion for the moment. No rush on your answer man and happy new year!

The only, last-ditch chance Kyler has is to ditch his dad and come up with a whole new approach--intense film study, nonstop mental preparation, and so on. It's not how he operates, as he's admitted as such, and it is painfully obvious that he needs to. Not for nothing does he get worse as the year goes on, defenses cue into his tendencies and weaknesses, and he faces division opponents for the second time.

 

[BirdGangThing]

The only, last-ditch chance Kyler has is to ditch his dad and come up with a whole new approach--intense film study, nonstop mental preparation, and so on. It's not how he operates, as he's admitted as such, and it is painfully obvious that he needs to. Not for nothing does he get worse as the year goes on, defenses cue into his tendencies and weaknesses, and he faces division opponents for the second time.

being prepared at anything will reduce panic - everything is less scary when you understand it - i hate me some russell wilson but for every hour he spends on the field he spends 10 hours in the film room

 

[DVontel]

intense film study, nonstop mental preparation, and so on.

Kyler probably already does these things. End result is that it doesn’t even matter because he’s too limited physically.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kyler probably already does these things. End result is that it doesn’t even matter because he’s too limited physically.

I always thought Kyler would be better than Baker and even Russell Wilson.

I know you say you prefer Purdy...I don't...As Ive seen Shanahan have Nick Mullens put up 400 yards with ease and get Jimmy G to a Super Bowl.

However, I underestimated something that Purdy, Baker and Russ have that Kyler likely never will. That's physical confidence in the pocket. All are willing to climb the pocket, all can take a hit when its absolutely needed for a play to work and none have as small of arm length as Kyler.

2021 (1st half of the season) is probably peak Kyler. And that was with speed everywhere, good enough line, KK able to hide his limitations with teams unable to muddy the pocket.

He just needs a lot to overcome the fact he has no physical confidence.

I remember a tweet comparing Kyler/Mahomes in 2019 saying that Kyler doesn't make the same throws as Mahomes if the situation isn't ideal. And that's proven to be true. He physically needs things ideal in order to throw accurately/confidently.

I think he does study, I think he does work hard. Only thing I question is do they (his dad) even attempt to find ways to work around his height limitations. Appears not.

 

[DVontel]

I always thought Kyler would be better than Baker and even Russell Wilson.

I know you say you prefer Purdy...I don't...As Ive seen Shanahan have Nick Mullens put up 400 yards with ease and get Jimmy G to a Super Bowl.

However, I underestimated something that Purdy, Baker and Russ have that Kyler likely never will. That's physical confidence in the pocket. All are willing to climb the pocket, all can take a hit when its absolutely needed for a play to work and none have as small of arm length as Kyler.

2021 (1st half of the season) is probably peak Kyler. And that was with speed everywhere, good enough line, KK able to hide his limitations with teams unable to muddy the pocket.

He just needs a lot to overcome the fact he has no physical confidence.

I remember a tweet comparing Kyler/Mahomes in 2019 saying that Kyler doesn't make the same throws as Mahomes if the situation isn't ideal. And that's proven to be true. He physically needs things ideal in order to throw accurately/confidently.

I think he does study, I think he does work hard. Only thing I question is do they (his dad) even attempt to find ways to work around his height limitations. Appears not.

Eh I don’t care about Purdy & I honestly believe he would fail damn near anywhere else, but what helps him is the physical confidence you mentioned. Kyler doesn’t have that.

 

[blindseyed]

I'm not advocating for Purdy but it's pretty telling when we're discussing a player who was the 1st player picked and the very last player picked lol

 

[slanidrac16]

If Kyler is add bad as you continue to claim, how can you justify another team giving up a top 5 pick? Based on your continued assessment, I'd say he's worth a 5th pick at best.

Because my perception is different than the league. The other thing is there are teams out there that are desperate for a qb. They might consider he is better than any qb in the draft and feel THEY would get the best out of him.

 

[slanidrac16]

K1 getting spanked by Annie again

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BAD ELF!!! HILARIOUS!!!!

 

[DaHilg]

I always thought Kyler would be better than Baker and even Russell Wilson.

I know you say you prefer Purdy...I don't...As Ive seen Shanahan have Nick Mullens put up 400 yards with ease and get Jimmy G to a Super Bowl.

However, I underestimated something that Purdy, Baker and Russ have that Kyler likely never will. That's physical confidence in the pocket. All are willing to climb the pocket, all can take a hit when its absolutely needed for a play to work and none have as small of arm length as Kyler.

2021 (1st half of the season) is probably peak Kyler. And that was with speed everywhere, good enough line, KK able to hide his limitations with teams unable to muddy the pocket.

He just needs a lot to overcome the fact he has no physical confidence.

I remember a tweet comparing Kyler/Mahomes in 2019 saying that Kyler doesn't make the same throws as Mahomes if the situation isn't ideal. And that's proven to be true. He physically needs things ideal in order to throw accurately/confidently.

I think he does study, I think he does work hard. Only thing I question is do they (his dad) even attempt to find ways to work around his height limitations. Appears not.

Solid take.. my largest question with Kyler will always be - would things be different if he had a proven veteran OC?

2 rookie OC’s certainly haven’t helped his situation. There’s more questions I could propose here, but that would muddy the waters. Would have loved to see what a top tier OC would have done w Kyler to answer how much that plays into factor here. The NFL is so much about being in the right situation at QB and I could list countless of examples of successes and failures.

 

[Stout]

Kyler probably already does these things. End result is that it doesn’t even matter because he’s too limited physically.

Does he? There's nothing to suggest he goes above and beyond, while he himself has admitted he doesn't need to. Combine that with his physical limitations and it's not good.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Does he? There's nothing to suggest he goes above and beyond, while he himself has admitted he doesn't need to. Combine that with his physical limitations and it's not good.

6 year vet who doesn't know where the pressure is coming from - meanwhile other qbs diagnose where the blitz is coming from presnap and burn the ever loving ish out of it

 

[TJ]

Most Seattle fans i know love Geno and wouldn't trade him for Kyler.

You cant make the argument that Kyler is better than Geno. I dont blame them

 

[Stout]

6 year vet who doesn't know where the pressure is coming from - meanwhile other qbs diagnose where the blitz is coming from presnap and burn the ever loving ish out of it

Yeah, the good QBs will punish the blitz. Kyler cannot handle the blitz.

 

[DVontel]

Does he? There's nothing to suggest he goes above and beyond, while he himself has admitted he doesn't need to. Combine that with his physical limitations and it's not good.

Man that quote was 6 years ago.

I mean in my post you quoted, I said it doesn’t matter even if he does because he’s too limited physically.

 

[kerouac9]

Man that quote was 6 years ago.

I mean in my post you quoted, I said it doesn’t matter even if he does because he’s too limited physically.

I know he doesn't want to feed the narrative, but it's hard to argue that he's focused on the mental aspect of the game when (1) the content he's publishing is stuff like "How I work out with Asian MMA-er" during the season and (2) he hasn't talked specifically about the mental work he's been putting in.

It's likely that he can't get Nike to underwrite his film study video, but also if you care about changing the narrative, you have to take control of it. Haven't heard the coaching affirmatively say anything like this, either.

 

[DVontel]

I know he doesn't want to feed the narrative, but it's hard to argue that he's focused on the mental aspect of the game when (1) the content he's publishing is stuff like "How I work out with Asian MMA-er" during the season and (2) he hasn't talked specifically about the mental work he's been putting in.

It's likely that he can't get Nike to underwrite his film study video, but also if you care about changing the narrative, you have to take control of it. Haven't heard the coaching affirmatively say anything like this, either.

As fans for the team he plays for, sure, it would be nice to see him watching film in those vlogs.

But as a casual fan, nobody is trying to watch that because it’s not entertaining. Working out with an Asian celebrity will bring a lot more views than watching film in the office.

 

[AZ Native]

Yeah, the good QBs will punish the blitz. Kyler cannot handle the blitz.

Looking at you Kurt.

 

[kerouac9]

As fans for the team he plays for, sure, it would be nice to see him watching film in those vlogs.

But as a casual fan, nobody is trying to watch that because it’s not entertaining. Working out with an Asian celebrity will bring a lot more views than watching film in the office.

Yup. And if Kyler is focusing energy in-season on being an influencer and creating brand-building content, I guess that tells you something about where his priorities are.

No reason he can't post both videos of his film study setup and what he does to get mentally prepared along with the visually compelling "sitting on the training table" footage.