Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[DVontel]

Without saying "Um" and Uh" a lot, I bet.

Lame response.

 

[BritCard]

Are you guys not watching Daniels win playoff games as a rookie in the exact same offense, with the exact same skill set as Kyler and have it question if Kyler is the problem?

I've seen posts in here agreeing with JG, that Kyler needs a better team to be successful, well what does Daniels have?

Brian Robinson Jr and Ekeler at RB, meh.

A receiving core that outside of McLaurin is Crowder, Dyami Brown and Zaccheaus. Chris Moore, who never played a snap for us had 12 snaps for them last night. They were his 1st snaps of the year.

His TE1 is a guy we kicked out of town.

His O line is Brandon Coleman, Sam Cosmi, Tyler Biadasz, Nick Allegretti and Andrew Wylie. Who in rank 61st, 33rd, 13th, 65th and 86th at their positions. All worse than our O line as @Chris_Sanders listed some pages back.

Their starting Edge players are Dorance Armstrong and Dante Fowler. Clelin Ferrell is getting 40% of snaps.

The starting LB's are Bobby Wagner and Frankie Luvu. The CB's are no better than ours.

The only place you can definitively say they are better is at DT. But they missed Jon Allen for most of the year and Daron Payne has a 53 PFF grade.

Yet here they are, finishing 12-5 and winning the wildcard round. While were saying "It's not Kyler's fault, he just needs a better team".

It's funny how teams look better when the QB plays better.

 

[krazy2k]

Where I think Hurts is ahead of Murray, and it was the same at college level too:

You cannot rattle Hurts.

No matter what just happened, his expression and body language always says "That is exactly what I planned/thought would happen".

Throws and 80 Yard touchdown? Same expression. Throws a pick six? Same expression.

Jalen is so grown up. So icy cool. Murray still developing that composure and poise.

How many more years does KM need to develop composure and poise? Six isn't enough? Sorry, KM is the master of second half of the season meltdowns. Composure and poise are not in his DNA.

 

[DVontel]

Are you guys not watching Daniels win playoff games as a rookie in the exact same offense, with the exact same skill set as Kyler and have it question if Kyler is the problem?

I've seen posts in here agreeing with JG, that Kyler needs a better team to be successful, well what does Daniels have?

Brian Robinson Jr and Ekeler at RB, meh.

A receiving core that outside of McLaurin is Crowder, Dyami Brown and Zaccheaus. Chris Moore, who never played a snap for us had 12 snaps for them last night. They were his 1st snaps of the year.

His TE1 is a guy we kicked out of town.

His O line is Brandon Coleman, Sam Cosmi, Tyler Biadasz, Nick Allegretti and Andrew Wylie. Who in rank 61st, 33rd, 13th, 65th and 86th at their positions. All worse than our O line as @Chris_Sanders listed some pages back.

Their starting Edge players are Dorance Armstrong and Dante Fowler. Clelin Ferrell is getting 40% of snaps.

The starting LB's are Bobby Wagner and Frankie Luvu. The CB's are no better than ours.

The only place you can definitively say they are better is at DT. But they missed Jon Allen for most of the year and Daron Payne has a 53 PFF grade.

Yet here they are, finishing 12-5 and winning the wildcard round. While were saying "It's not Kyler's fault, he just needs a better team".

It's funny how teams look better when the QB plays better.

A majority of us know Jayden is better than Kyler.

We both know you’re just talking about @602 Native, dude. There’s no “you guys”, “we”, “we’re”, etc, it’s strictly @602 Native

Just @ the guy instead of fetching so hard for brownie points.

 

[BritCard]

A majority of us know Jayden is better than Kyler.

We both know you’re just talking about @602 Native, dude. There’s no “you guys”, “we”, “we’re”, etc, it’s strictly @602 Native

Just @ the guy instead of fetching so hard for brownie points.

Nah, there are multiple guys in here defending Kyler, and also a number of people saying "Yeah, Kyler is a mid guy, but JG is right that if the team is better we can win playoff games". I literally just read them.

The point of my post is to highlight that's BS. You don't need a stacked roster. What has happened this year with the Commanders in the same offence Kyler had, with a mediocre roster, is the perfect example.

Not a single star on that team outside Jayden. You swap Kyler and Jayden over and we are 12-5 and winning playoff games and the Commanders are 8-9 and watching on TV.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

You swap Kyler and Jayden over and we are 12-5 and winning playoff games and the Commanders are 8-9 and watching on TV.

We might have even been better than 12-5.

 

[DVontel]

Nah, there are multiple guys in here defending Kyler, and also a number of people saying "Yeah, Kyler is a mid guy, but JG is right that if the team is better we can win playoff games". I literally just read them.

Every time I come in here it’s usually 602 Native vs Kyler critic. He is the constant poster in here that defends Kyler. Also, JG didn’t lie. That’s common sense. Weird how you’re so hell-bent against that.

The point of my post is to highlight that's BS. You don't need a stacked roster. What has happened this year with the Commanders in the same offence Kyler had, with a mediocre roster, is the perfect example.

Nobody said anything about stacked rosters. What has happened is Jayden Daniels has shown to be better than Kyler. Way better. Everybody knows that.

Not a single star on that team outside Jayden. You swap Kyler and Jayden over and we are 12-5 and winning playoff games and the Commanders are 8-9 and watching on TV.

Scary Terry is a star. I agree with the records though.


Your point is you put a better QB on this team & the team would be better. Obviously everybody knows that.

 

[BritCard]

Every time I come in here it’s usually 602 Native vs Kyler critic. He is the constant poster in here that defends Kyler. Also, JG didn’t lie. That’s common sense. Weird how you’re so hell-bent against that.

Both things can be true. It's mostly 602 vs the world, but there are plenty of others, if not stans, then "we can do fine with Kyler" people.

I don't think we can. There are a whole bunch of instances in a game where it doesn't matter what the rest of the team does, it's all on the QB. A better team will raise the lows, they won't increase the peaks with a QB with so many flaws.

At the same time, improving the roster so it's a better standard for when we can move on from Kyler doesn't hurt anyone.

 

[602 Native]

Nah, there are multiple guys in here defending Kyler, and also a number of people saying "Yeah, Kyler is a mid guy, but JG is right that if the team is better we can win playoff games". I literally just read them.

The point of my post is to highlight that's BS. You don't need a stacked roster. What has happened this year with the Commanders in the same offence Kyler had, with a mediocre roster, is the perfect example.

Not a single star on that team outside Jayden. You swap Kyler and Jayden over and we are 12-5 and winning playoff games and the Commanders are 8-9 and watching on TV.

Are you bringing Dan Quinn here because obviously the dude is a top tier coach?

Daniels for sure looks the part but bringing up every QB that is drafted and looks good is funny.

I am sure you weren't on the trade K1 to get Caleb were you?

You were crowing about Stroud but again he is looking not as great.

I know you were on the Herbert bandwagon which has now blown up in your face.

K1 ain't going anywhere till after next season and that's only if the dude gags and proves he's not the guy.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

K1 ain't going anywhere till after next season and that's only if the dude gags again and continues to prove he's not the guy.

FTFY

 

[602 Native]

FTFY

Whatever that helps you sleep at night my man.

Im on record about the gagging but please go off.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If anyone ever said this to you, you would report them over and over and demand they get banned.

@jf-08 @Shane @Ronin @Devilmaycare

Tell me if I am wrong.

Relax, Francis. It’s a joke from Batman essentially saying “you’re nuts.” If you think I’d be crying for a ban and deserve one for that, be my guest.

 

[Chopper0080]

If anyone ever said this to you, you would report them over and over and demand they get banned.

@jf-08 @Shane @Ronin @Devilmaycare

Tell me if I am wrong.

I am cracking up over this response.

 

[Chopper0080]

Nah, there are multiple guys in here defending Kyler, and also a number of people saying "Yeah, Kyler is a mid guy, but JG is right that if the team is better we can win playoff games". I literally just read them.

The point of my post is to highlight that's BS. You don't need a stacked roster. What has happened this year with the Commanders in the same offence Kyler had, with a mediocre roster, is the perfect example.

Not a single star on that team outside Jayden. You swap Kyler and Jayden over and we are 12-5 and winning playoff games and the Commanders are 8-9 and watching on TV.

A couple points on this.

Kyler being mid doesn't prevent Daniels from being a better QB.

Daniels being able to be successful despite a mid roster doesn't mean Kyler can't be more successful than he currently is with a better roster around him.

Those are both mutually exclusive things.

Now, if people are saying Kyler is better than Daniels, ok, you would have a point. I don't see other posters, other than maybe 6024, saying that Kyler is better than Daniels.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Kyler is not better than Daniels or Herbert. Daniels is anything but mid.

 

[BirdGangThing]

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why did washington have 35 more yards rushing?

because daniels rushed for 47 yards while kyler rushed for 3 not to mention daniels out throwing murray by over 100 freakin yards

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[Cheesebeef]

The Steelers made the playoffs with two 20ish QBs. Murray is a marked upgrade over what they had.

No he’s not. Wilson is basically a Kyler clone as far as production is concerned, with his 11 starts extrapolating out to 3800 yards, 25 TDs, 5 INTs, 250 yards rushing and 2 TDs. All while doing that with a worse offensive line and worse rushing game.

You get twenty more yards per game rushing with Kyler, but the INTs cancel that out.

But there is virtually no other metric saying Kyler is a vast upgrade to Wilson. Both guys are as mid as mid gets.

 

[daves]

2024 NFL QB Rankings: Insights Behind Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, and Others

Heading into the NFL playoffs, what are the shape of our final QB rankings for the 2024 NFL regular season, and where do the MVP candidates fall?

www.profootballnetwork.com

This list is actually pretty decent. Murray ends up at 16, which is right in line with my thoughts so maybe it is confirmation bias.

Of note though Herbert is 14. I know everyone likes to punch on 602 but his statement isn't as outrageous as you all think.

That list is only for this year, not career rankings or looking forward. It has Mahomes at 10 and Carr at 11! And Murray is actually 17th because they sloppily forgot to assign a number to Justin Fields, who's listed behind Herbert and ahead of Murray (!).

 

[Crimson Warrior]

How many more years does KM need to develop composure and poise?

All I will say is that I think it's still possible for Murray to overcome the non-clutch issue.

Guys grow up at different speeds. The light comes on later for some.

If you're confident it won't happen, cool, I understand. There's all the previous failures that we have to consider. I won't even argue that the odds are against him.

My hope, which I hope you guys perceive as non-crazy pants, is that his will to win will be a catalyst for him improving.

But unfortunately that's all the K1 superfans have at this point. Hope.

 

[Cheesebeef]

2024 NFL QB Rankings: Insights Behind Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Josh Allen, and Others

Heading into the NFL playoffs, what are the shape of our final QB rankings for the 2024 NFL regular season, and where do the MVP candidates fall?

www.profootballnetwork.com

This list is actually pretty decent. Murray ends up at 16, which is right in line with my thoughts so maybe it is confirmation bias.

So… you think this list is pretty good… and that Murray is a “vast upgrade over Fields and Wilson”… even though it has Fields listed above Murray and Wilson literally one spot below.

Can you square that circle for me, Chris?

 

[PDXChris]

Kyler played 17 regular season games for the first time and played the second most snaps of his career with a current streak of 25 straight games played. That is good to see being two years removed from ACL reconstruction surgery.

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[BullheadCardFan]

My hope, which I hope you guys perceive as non-crazy pants, is that his will to win will be a catalyst for him improving.

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[602 Native]

Kyler played 17 regular season games for the first time and played the second most snaps of his career with a current streak of 25 straight games played. That is good to see being two years removed from ACL reconstruction surgery.

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This is one thing I will give Petzing kudoos for because I think that this is directly attributed to his offensive scheme.

13 personnel and the blocking schemes he has come up with.