Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[AZCB34]

All I will say is that I think it's still possible for Murray to overcome the composure/poise/non-clutch issue.

Guys grow up at different speeds. The light comes on later for some.

If you're confident it won't happen, cool, I understand. There's all the previous failures that we have to consider. I won't even argue that the odds are against him.

My hope, which I hope you guys perceive as a non-crazy pants, is that his will to win will be a catalyst for him improving.

But unfortunately that's all the K1 superfans have at this point. Hope.

Good post. My only complaint with it is the “his will to win” comment. Theoretically he has always had this same will to win that would become the catalyst and yet here we are, 6 years of the will to win and little improvement.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Herbert fans are totally undone tonight.

Every excuse is no different than K1.

LOL

I e always wanted to like Herbert, but he just never seems to be clutch either. Never commented on him one way or another. Just seems meh like Kyler.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

100%

And rightly so. They both suffer from the problem. They can put up big numbers when the lights aren’t the brightest and shrink when the pressure is on.

I think Harbaugh will have way less patience but he can also spot QB talent later in the draft. Don’t think that is something that JG or MO can do.

I just hope the Cards come out firing next season so we won’t have to have this conversation again. Winning cures lots of issues.

Coming out firing won’t matter. We will enjoy that, but we’ll all be waiting for kyler to crumble the second half of the season. That’s what we will all be waiting for.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I want Kyler on another team but how cruel would it be if Kyler showed up at the end of the season & even won a playoff game or two with his next team while we’re still….the Cardinals? lmao man

Oh it could happen. It could definitely happen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Steelers made the playoffs with two 20ish QBs. Murray is a marked upgrade over what they had.

Also, I didn't watch the game and drank Drano. You were assholely spot on with that preface.

While Kyler might be more talented than those two guys now. He’s considerably less clutch than Russ. Still.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A majority of us know Jayden is better than Kyler.

We both know you’re just talking about @602 Native, dude. There’s no “you guys”, “we”, “we’re”, etc, it’s strictly @602 Native

Just @ the guy instead of fetching so hard for brownie points.

There are still like 5-6 kyler Stans and that doesn’t include you or crimson.

 

[DVontel]

There are still like 5-6 kyler Stans and that doesn’t include you or crimson.

If I was a Kyler stan, I would still want him on this team. Don’t call me stan of anybody. I don’t stan any person.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

All I will say is that I think it's still possible for Murray to overcome the composure/poise/non-clutch issue.

Guys grow up at different speeds. The light comes on later for some.

If you're confident it won't happen, cool, I understand. There's all the previous failures that we have to consider. I won't even argue that the odds are against him.

My hope, which I hope you guys perceive as non-crazy pants, is that his will to win will be a catalyst for him improving.

But unfortunately that's all the K1 superfans have at this point. Hope.

You’re not wrong about people maturing at different rates. That said, it seems most QB that matured later in career did so as a result of something big, like switching teams.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If I was a Kyler stan, I would still want him on this team. Don’t call me stan of anybody. I don’t stan any person.

Uh that’s why I said it does NOT include you.

 

[Shane]

Uh that’s why I said it does NOT include you.

Well, I can see his confusion when you said it doesn't include Crimson who absolutely is

 

[DVontel]

Uh that’s why I said it does NOT include you.

I haven’t seen more than 3 Kyler stans in months. Crimson is absolutely a noted Kyler stan so you left me very confused when you grouped me with him.

 

[DVontel]

Well, I can see his confusion when you said it doesn't include Crimson who absolutely is

This.

 

[602 Native]

Maybe we can get the world beater Sam Darnold next season like many wanted over K1?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, I can see his confusion when you said it doesn't include Crimson who absolutely is

Crimson can admit that kyler has shortcomings. He just continues to support him unconditionally. It’s a loyalty thing (that I don’t get) not some unhinged excuse making.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I haven’t seen more than 3 Kyler stans in months. Crimson is absolutely a noted Kyler stan so you left me very confused when you grouped me with him.

602
Urz
Wa176
Nashman
The new kid that k9 or chopper keep playing with

 

[602 Native]

Wentz is cooked. But I would give Darnold or Mayfield a hard look if the Cardinals decided to move off Kyler.

It’s kinda sad that there are people who are completely content with Kyler’s level of play. As a fan, you ought to be demanding more out of your $50mil/year QB than pedestrian numbers and a bad TD/INT ratio. He should not be getting outplayed by Sam Darnold, Geno Smith x 2, and other forgettable players

I would rather watch Darnold play QB next year than Kyler.

Anybody watching the Lion/Viking game knows Kyler would crumble with the pressure Goff and Darnold are facing.

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[SoonerLou]

There are still like 5-6 kyler Stans and that doesn’t include you or crimson.

I think Im still a Stan, but personally think its better for the Cardinals to move on from him. I do think he could still be really good elsewhere, but that ship has sailed here.

In my head I kinda thought he really needed Sean Payton in order to have a chance to really work. So I always sorta had doubts and reality set in during the 2nd half of the season.

Maybe we can get the world beater Sam Darnold next season like many wanted over K1?

The discourse around Sam should be interesting. Again it just really helps when you play a complete good season. Cause then you're questioning how good someone is instead of mid being the starting point. Again...its sad.

 

[kerouac9]

602
Urz
Wa176
Nashman
The new kid that k9 or chopper keep playing with

cardsfanmd?

 

[Cheesebeef]

cardsfanmd?

He’s stepped back from the ledge a bit, I think.

His father, PACard, has gone totally over it though.

 

[Redsz]

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Yup, and I'm totally comfortable with saying Darnold totally shat the bed today. Epic fail.

 

[Russ Smith]

Are you guys not watching Daniels win playoff games as a rookie in the exact same offense, with the exact same skill set as Kyler and have it question if Kyler is the problem?

I've seen posts in here agreeing with JG, that Kyler needs a better team to be successful, well what does Daniels have?

Brian Robinson Jr and Ekeler at RB, meh.

A receiving core that outside of McLaurin is Crowder, Dyami Brown and Zaccheaus. Chris Moore, who never played a snap for us had 12 snaps for them last night. They were his 1st snaps of the year.

His TE1 is a guy we kicked out of town.

His O line is Brandon Coleman, Sam Cosmi, Tyler Biadasz, Nick Allegretti and Andrew Wylie. Who in rank 61st, 33rd, 13th, 65th and 86th at their positions. All worse than our O line as @Chris_Sanders listed some pages back.

Their starting Edge players are Dorance Armstrong and Dante Fowler. Clelin Ferrell is getting 40% of snaps.

The starting LB's are Bobby Wagner and Frankie Luvu. The CB's are no better than ours.

The only place you can definitively say they are better is at DT. But they missed Jon Allen for most of the year and Daron Payne has a 53 PFF grade.

Yet here they are, finishing 12-5 and winning the wildcard round. While were saying "It's not Kyler's fault, he just needs a better team".

It's funny how teams look better when the QB plays better.

Daniels sure looks like he's going to be special.

But everytime I watch them play I'm too pissed about McLaurin to really pay attention to Daniels. I always go back to that draft where we took Andy Isabella over Metcalf, Diontae Johnson and McLaurin.

In a draft where we were desperate for WR's to help the rookie Kyler, we got Isabella, Hakeem Butler and KeeSean Johnson, who was actually the best of the 3. Can't help but think what could have been, either Metcalf or McLaurin make such a huge difference for us

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

cardsfanmd?

Naw. It was like cardinals254 or something like that. VERY new to the board.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Im still a Stan, but personally think its better for the Cardinals to move on from him. I do think he could still be really good elsewhere, but that ship has sailed here.

In my head I kinda thought he really needed Sean Payton in order to have a chance to really work. So I always sorta had doubts and reality set in during the 2nd half of the season.

The discourse around Sam should be interesting. Again it just really helps when you play a complete good season. Cause then you're questioning how good someone is instead of mid being the starting point. Again...its sad.

I don’t consider you a Stan. You’re reasonable with respect to kyler even if you’re a fan.

I had forgotten about DaHig. He’s a Stan.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Daniels sure looks like he's going to be special.

But everytime I watch them play I'm too pissed about McLaurin to really pay attention to Daniels. I always go back to that draft where we took Andy Isabella over Metcalf, Diontae Johnson and McLaurin.

In a draft where we were desperate for WR's to help the rookie Kyler, we got Isabella, Hakeem Butler and KeeSean Johnson, who was actually the best of the 3. Can't help but think what could have been, either Metcalf or McLaurin make such a huge difference for us

Here's Keim making the picks

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[BritCard]

Are you bringing Dan Quinn here because obviously the dude is a top tier coach?

Daniels for sure looks the part but bringing up every QB that is drafted and looks good is funny.

I am sure you weren't on the trade K1 to get Caleb were you?

You were crowing about Stroud but again he is looking not as great.

I know you were on the Herbert bandwagon which has now blown up in your face.

K1 ain't going anywhere till after next season and that's only if the dude gags and proves he's not the guy.

Wut?

I was not on trade K1 and get Caleb (I liked Maye and Daniels). I talk about Daniels because he's a similar skill set in the exact same scheme so a direct comparison.

Stroud is still a good QB just having a sophomore slump and *checks notes* is in the divisional round of the playoffs.

Herbert is still a far superior QB, how has him losing a playoff game "blew up in my face?"