Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[BirdGangThing]

Sorry to bust your bubble but he is.

Talk to me when Allen is a MVP and in the Super Bowl.

He is a more accurate Cam Newton.

yeah he's just trolling now

 

[602 Native]

you talk sideways non-stop lol - you think you're helping kyler's case - actuality is you're exposing yourself

Thanks for the critique but zero people care what you think personally about posters.

Darnold is awesome we should sign him for sure so we can get to a Super Bowl.

 

[DVontel]

Needs to be a separate thread of 602 vs the world.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Thanks for the critique but zero people care what you think personally about posters.

Darnold is awesome we should sign him for sure so we can get to a Super Bowl.

where's your go to meme of how you don't think of me at all? you sound upset lol

 

[602 Native]

Needs to be a separate thread of 602 vs the world.

Its a small vocal crew that says K1 is some horrible QB when he is not.

Most are in the middle here they just don't respond to this thread.

 

[602 Native]

where's your go to meme of how you don't think of me at all? you sound upset lol

Upset talking to rando internet Cards fans?

Stop projecting

 

[BirdGangThing]

Upset talking to rando internet Cards fans?

Stop projecting

:sideways:

 

[some dumb guy]

Thank God, it's over. NO more posts to see here...just move along now..... LOL

 

[kerouac9]

We could spend a hundred million in cap space trying to build a roster good enough to offset how bad Kyler can be when it gets to the crunch, or we could just accept he's bad and move on.

The second option seems cheaper and easier.

I think it's actually really hard to find a top 15 QB in the draft. The dropoff between Kyler/Lawrence/Herbert and the next tier feels really steep to me.

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Good thing we have one.

Wait-- are just black-coding QBs here? Stroud and Mahomes aren't a dual-threat QBs, neither are Stafford or Goff. The challenge is that all of these QBs except maybe Hurts are good at navigating the pocket -- a skill that Kyler has yet to figure out.

Multiple posters were saying that Darnold was better than what we have with K1. That is not close to being the case.

It is close to being the case, which is pretty damning. The point is that you can make a reasonable argument that Sam Darnold is as good as or maybe better than Kyler Murray. That's extremely bad.

Its a small vocal crew that says K1 is some horrible QB when he is not.

I can't really think of anyone aside from @BritCard who are both vocal and extremely critical of Kyler Murray here. The problem is that you don't like the argument that Kyler is mediocre, so you have to inaccurately cast opinion as being "horrible" or "never Kylers" when that's not the case.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[kerouac9]

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It's hard for me to differentiate between DVOA (which I have a lot of respect for) and FTN (I don't know her). This data seems real difficult to be able to accurately parse from the outside.

 

[football karma]

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a link to this would be appreciated -- to understand what its trying to tell me

 

[BirdGangThing]

a link to this would be appreciated -- to understand what its trying to tell me

i see a lot of check downs

 

[slanidrac16]

Kyler could learn a lot just watching Daniels.
Daniels doesn’t grimace when something bad happens. He doesn’t throw up his arms looking for pass interference calls. He doesn’t pout on the sidelines. He runs with a calmness. He sets up in the pocket the same way.
In fact at one of the most critical times of the game he was smiling and talking to the defense.
Just saying….

 

[Russ Smith]

People often say how Kyler never had a vet coach. This guy made Jordon Love and made Malik Willis look good, but quit Kyler after his rookie year. Why?

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See this is why I keep debating with you when I'm not even a huge believer in Kyler. Clements did NOT retire because of Kyler Murray, he retired because of health isssues they literally told us that when he retired. Whatever it was, he came back later and worked again. Surprise he's not even remotely the first coach in the NFL to retire and then come back, they all do it they miss the game.

THere are so many REAL things to complain about with Kyler why do you keep doing this?

 

[PDXChris]

LOL

No he is not.

Allen is Cam Newton that is more accurate.

Josh Allen is all about football
Cam Newton was all about Cam Newton

That to me is the bigger difference and gives Allen a higher football IQ. Let's not forget, Allen was not recruited out of high school and only played JuCo becuase he was related to the OC. After JuCo, he only got two offers, Eastern Washington and Wyoming.

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Josh Allen has grown more in the last 10 years, than any QB I can remember. He was benched in training camp for, checks notes, Derick freaking Anderson! Cam was handed the keys to stardom and fizzled out.

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Josh Allen needs to spend an offseason with Kyler!

 

[TheCardFan]

a link to this would be appreciated -- to understand what its trying to tell me

See the twitter link on the bottom right of image.

Trying not to post so many twitter links since many people can't/don't want to open them.

Not a lot of additional information that I saw but feel free to let us know.

 

[Chopper0080]

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Sure did say that. And it stands.

 

[Chopper0080]

That's not my point at all.

My point is that we don't need a better roster to be a successful team (See Commanders) we just need a better QB.

We could spend a hundred million in cap space trying to build a roster good enough to offset how bad Kyler can be when it gets to the crunch, or we could just accept he's bad and move on.

The second option seems cheaper and easier.

I mean...I guess.

Obviously the best answer is a better QB with a better roster.

The alternatives are a better roster with the same QB OR the same roster with a better QB. If the player cycle doesn't offer you the opportunity of a better QB, then you just build the roster.

 

[Chopper0080]

LOL

Talk about not watching games.

Darnold has the best offensive personnel in football of course he’s going to have a good season.

Like I said when everyone was touting him don’t believe the hype.

Swap Darnold for K1 and the K1 would be a possible MVP.

Darnold might not even get a contract with Minny.

LOL

A quick fact check.

Minnesota does not have the best offensive personnel in football.

Kyler is not a good fit in the McVay/KOC scheme so he would not be the MVP.

The reason Darnold won't get a contract from Minnesota is because JJ McCarthy beat him out for the starting job and will be back from injury.

 

[QuebecCard]

Kyler has 6 years of bad play on one. Darnold just had a better season than Kyler ever had.

2024 Darnold: 36 total TDs
2020 Kyler: 37 total TDs

Is anyone prepared to argue that the 2020 CARDS offence was more talented than the 2024 Vikes?

 

[QuebecCard]

i see a lot of check downs

And GOFF, who may be in the Super Bowl, leads in checkdowns.

 

[football karma]

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some explanation:

designated receiver is a play where the QB is throwing to a given receiver no matter what -- think WR screens, shovel passes, etc. The Cards offense features few of these

55.6% of pass plays, Kyler throws it to his first read. 5.6% it goes to the second, 17% are the checkdown, 12% are scrambles.

This passes the eye test -- where we see in rhythm, calm Kyler hitting throws on time, or, happy feet Kyler settling for a checkdown.

to me the biggest diff between him and the top QBs (take J. Allen for one) is the 4-5% of attempts where Allen goes to his second read while Kyler goes to the checkdown.

To get from where Kyler is on that to where Allen is --- its about 1 attempt per game. So its not some giant leap -- incremental improvement in both Kyler and Petzing would close that easily.

 

[602 Native]

Sure did say that. And it stands.

Josh Allen is all about football
Cam Newton was all about Cam Newton

That to me is the bigger difference and gives Allen a higher football IQ. Let's not forget, Allen was not recruited out of high school and only played JuCo becuase he was related to the OC. After JuCo, he only got two offers, Eastern Washington and Wyoming.

You must be registered for see images attach

Josh Allen has grown more in the last 10 years, than any QB I can remember. He was benched in training camp for, checks notes, Derick freaking Anderson! Cam was handed the keys to stardom and fizzled out.

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Josh Allen needs to spend an offseason with Kyler!

Not saying that they have similar personalities. They have similar playing styles for sure.

Cam never dedicated himself to the craft like Allen has done and his accuracy has improved because of it.

 

[602 Native]

A quick fact check.

Minnesota does not have the best offensive personnel in football.

Kyler is not a good fit in the McVay/KOC scheme so he would not be the MVP.

The reason Darnold won't get a contract from Minnesota is because JJ McCarthy beat him out for the starting job and will be back from injury.

Who would you say s better?